Hybrids ! Get them off the HOV lanes !!

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Originally posted by Wagonman
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Originally posted by spolastre
[br]Ron, I feel the same way. Even though they use clean fuel, they are increasing traffic. If you want to help the environment, instead of getting in the car and slowing down traffic on the HOV, why don't you pick up people that do not have Hybrids and by doing that, you will be helping the earth in two ways.

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Hybrids don't use a clean fuel. They use gas just like most other cars. That's part of the gripe with them, they aren't cleaner than a lot of other cars and yet they still get special treatment. There is no logic to including hybrids in the clean special fuel exemption other than to let people buy their way out of the regular lanes and to increase the sales of Honda and Toyota. This "clean fuel" law should reflect tested emissions, not perceived(ie marketing hype) emissions. At the very least they need to require Honda to sell the cleaner version of their hybrids here instead of the stripped down dirtier version.

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Originally posted by Wagonman
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Originally posted by spolastre
[br]Ron, I feel the same way. Even though they use clean fuel, they are increasing traffic. If you want to help the environment, instead of getting in the car and slowing down traffic on the HOV, why don't you pick up people that do not have Hybrids and by doing that, you will be helping the earth in two ways.

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Hybrids don't use a clean fuel. They use gas just like most other cars. That's part of the gripe with them, they aren't cleaner than a lot of other cars and yet they still get special treatment. There is no logic to including hybrids in the clean special fuel exemption other than to let people buy their way out of the regular lanes and to increase the sales of Honda and Toyota. This "clean fuel" law should reflect tested emissions, not perceived(ie marketing hype) emissions. At the very least they need to require Honda to sell the cleaner version of their hybrids here instead of the stripped down dirtier version.

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Originally posted by Wagonman
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Originally posted by Uhura


Wow-I didn't know that! Do you happen to know of a website etc where I could read about this?

Live Long and Prosper

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Go to Honda's website and read all the fine print. Or try the EPA's green vehicle guide and pay attention to sales areas and engine codes for all the different model of the hybrids. For example:
http://www.epa.gov./greenvehicles/E-HONDA-CivicHybrid-04.htm

The engine code 4HNXV01.35A6 (under vehicle specs) is the one sold here. Now look at the sales area for this engine code. The sales area that includes Virginia gets a 6 score...not very good. What the sales area really means is what gasoline is used for testing. Since California has the CARB gasoline that runs very clean, the car in that sales are gets a better score. For some idiotic reason, the 5 northeastern states that use CARB standards get that rating even though they don't sell CARB gasoline there. You can see how they are included in the sales area with California.
For the rest of the country the rating is based on using regular gasoline. That's how we get the 6 rating here. Just to fully disclose all the details we do have reformulated gasoline in the metro DC area, but not the whole state. It is cleaner than regular gas, but not as clean as CARB gas. So the true rating here may be a 6 or 7. There is no way to know, but remember the other "normal cars" ratings would also increase with reformulated gas. Even if the Honda hybrid did get a 7 here, it still wouldn't be cleaner than a lot of other cars on the road.
If you look at those rating you can also see how misleading the SULEV rating is. The other engine code is the cleaner version that is sold in California and gets their SULVEV rating. Notice how it get a 10 rating in CA while using CARB gasoline, but only an 8 while using regular gasoline. I always here people saying that their SULEV rated car is 90% cleaner than the average car. What they are saying is that their car running on CARB gas pollutes 90% less than the average car running on regular gasoline. This is comparing apples to oranges since the cars are running on different fuels. The SULEV rated Honda hybrid spits out 5-6 times as much pollution running on regular gas versus CARB gas and the average car would spit out a lot less pollution if run on the CARB gas instead of the regular gasoline. Just look at how many "normal cars" score a 10 in the California market!
The public perception that hybrids are inherently cleaner than regular cars is a fallacy. Hybrids are only more fuel efficient, not cleaner running. Now if you want to take into account the environmental pollution related to having to procure more oil, then you might have an argument. But as far as air quality around the metro DC area is concerned, hybrids aren't helping one bit. They are actually hurting by inducing people to not bother carpooling. This is why they need to be removed from the HOV lanes, they aren't deserving of a clean fuel exemption.

Sorry I keep repeating myself. But I'm hoping that if I keep repeating myself it will sink in to more people.

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