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Forum LockedHybrids - a threat to car-pooling?

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VA4ver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VA4ver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2005 at 3:45pm
There's no point because if you damn HOV because it's a failed attempt at behavior modification, you end up in a no win situation. No, people don't want to carpool with others, but they are willing to put up with it to use the HOV lanes. And, obviously, there's a lot of people who don't want to take mass transit either for the same behavior modification issues (sitting next to strangers, conform to bus/metro schedules, etc.), so they decide to travel alone in their cars adding to the congestion.

No one forces people to carpool or travel in the regular lanes or take mass transit - it's a choice anyone can make based on individual priorities. If the expess lanes are opened to everyone, then expect everyone to start traveling solo -- passing up on buses, metro, carpools, etc. Then where will you be? Left without choices.
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Mr. Bill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2005 at 3:50pm
quote:
Originally posted by VA4ver
No one forces people to carpool or travel in the regular lanes or take mass transit - it's a choice anyone can make based on individual priorities.


Good post.
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Wagonman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wagonman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2005 at 6:05pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]Wagonman - you're logic is fuzzy. You say HOV is "at capacity" but methinks that includes hybrids. I guess you are in favor of extending the hybrid exemption to keep HOV at capacity. Welcome to the Team.




Nice attempt to twist words. If HOVs are at capacity(actually slighty over) that means the only way to increase the amount of people moved is to get rid of SOVs. You need to fill the empty seats in the vehicles that are already putting the road at capacity. SOVs in HOVs only worsen congestion. When half the SOVs given expemtions have poor emissions it makes the exemption even more untenable. Once the hybrids are out and capacity is met again then you go to HOV4. They also need to add space to some commuter lots which is much, much cheaper than building more lanes.
Honestly, no matter what is done congestion in the regular lanes is an unsolveable problem. If they spent the money to build more lanes more people would just stop taking metro, carpooling, or the VRE up until the point where congestion is now. There isn't enough land and money to build enough lanes to overcome that equilibrium point. Besides, in the case of 395, DC streets can only absorb so many lanes of traffic. Actually, there is one solution, it is congestion pricing for all lanes. But I can't see that being politically feasible.
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defender View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote defender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2005 at 8:35am
quote:
Originally posted by Wagonman
[br]
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]Wagonman - you're logic is fuzzy. You say HOV is "at capacity" but methinks that includes hybrids. I guess you are in favor of extending the hybrid exemption to keep HOV at capacity. Welcome to the Team.




Nice attempt to twist words. If HOVs are at capacity(actually slighty over) that means the only way to increase the amount of people moved is to get rid of SOVs.


There is the capacity as in cars per hour per lane.

There is the capacity as in commuters per hour.

Because the road is at its vehicle per hour capacity, there are only a few means to increase the commuter throughput:

a. Increase density by removing SOVs

b. Increase density by going to HOV-4

c. Build a third lane

Doing c. doesn't address the recent drop in commuter throughput. The easy target is hybrids, they are obvious. But, if yu look at the BB JJ and BJ plates, you will find numerous "cheaters" who are actually law enforcement personnel, using the exemption rule. [YES! THEY ARE USING THEIR POSITION FOR PERSONAL GAIN. I consider it only one step away from rskimming money from a drug bust as far as corrution goes.]

Doing b. doesn't address the dillution problem and requires a sizable increase in down range parking and other changes.

Doing a. is the first step.


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