Hybrids - a threat to car-pooling?

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   quote:
Originally posted by MDC

	[br]mroyal,

	I've read the statute word for word, and it specifically states that cars running gasoline do not qualify for the clean fuel exemption.  Virginia might have changed the enforcement of that, but they have not changed the wording regarding gasoline powered vehicles. Here's an article from 2000 about a guy with his Honda Insight getting HOV violations because his car didn't qualify for the exemption. 

	
	http://www.jrnl.net/news/00/Aug/jrn17100800.html

	
	But that's not my point. It's that 9 out of 10, if not 99 of 100 new cars in the "HOV" lanes with temporary tags are hybrids.  Where does that lead us in the near term?

	
	WRT your interpretation of the law, I (and apparently those who enforce it) disagree.  As I hinted, a better way to understand it is to look at the federal code.

	The cited article apparently was published in August 2000 and has no current relevance.  Hybrids are now being issued Clean Fuel tags in Virginia if they are certified by the Federal EPA as ILEVs.  In Virginia, vehicles with Clean Fuel tags are allowed to use HOV, at least until 2006.  That's just the facts.

	
	But, looking at your main point, I am still confused.  Is it that you anticipate that there will be a lot more hybrids on HOV in the near future (thus the temporary tags?)  If so, then I agree.  The HOV incentive is a stong incentive, by itself.  It has also influenced people to purchase and ride motorcycles.  If your point is that people who commute and are in the process of purchasing new vehicles are choosing more economical and emmision efficient vehicles, then I also agree.  Even with the HOV incentive aside, the Honda Civic Hybrid fits a very nice niche in my family and we are extremely pleased with it.

	
	Kindest Regards,

	
	mroyal

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mroyal Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote mroyal Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jun 2003 at 9:27am
	quote: Originally posted by MDC [br]mroyal, I've read the statute word for word, and it specifically states that cars running gasoline do not qualify for the clean fuel exemption. Virginia might have changed the enforcement of that, but they have not changed the wording regarding gasoline powered vehicles. Here's an article from 2000 about a guy with his Honda Insight getting HOV violations because his car didn't qualify for the exemption. http://www.jrnl.net/news/00/Aug/jrn17100800.html But that's not my point. It's that 9 out of 10, if not 99 of 100 new cars in the "HOV" lanes with temporary tags are hybrids. Where does that lead us in the near term? WRT your interpretation of the law, I (and apparently those who enforce it) disagree. As I hinted, a better way to understand it is to look at the federal code. The cited article apparently was published in August 2000 and has no current relevance. Hybrids are now being issued Clean Fuel tags in Virginia if they are certified by the Federal EPA as ILEVs. In Virginia, vehicles with Clean Fuel tags are allowed to use HOV, at least until 2006. That's just the facts. But, looking at your main point, I am still confused. Is it that you anticipate that there will be a lot more hybrids on HOV in the near future (thus the temporary tags?) If so, then I agree. The HOV incentive is a stong incentive, by itself. It has also influenced people to purchase and ride motorcycles. If your point is that people who commute and are in the process of purchasing new vehicles are choosing more economical and emmision efficient vehicles, then I also agree. Even with the HOV incentive aside, the Honda Civic Hybrid fits a very nice niche in my family and we are extremely pleased with it. Kindest Regards, mroyal

MDC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 04 Dec 2002 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote MDC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 Jun 2003 at 8:43pm
	The point is the name of this thread "...threat to carpooling". It won't be too long before there are more hybrids than cars with 3 people inside. Virginia's law specifically excludes gasoline powered vehicles. Just because they are now allowing hybrids to get "CF" plates, doesn't change that. Virginia has not updated the language of their law as of a couple of months ago.

mroyal Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote mroyal Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jun 2003 at 3:55pm
	quote: Originally posted by MDC [br]The point is the name of this thread "...threat to carpooling". It won't be too long before there are more hybrids than cars with 3 people inside. Virginia's law specifically excludes gasoline powered vehicles. Just because they are now allowing hybrids to get "CF" plates, doesn't change that. Virginia has not updated the language of their law as of a couple of months ago. Ok, the best we can get is "agree to disagree." I don't think there is an immediate threat that hybrids will outnumber HOV 3+ and I don't agree with your interpretation of the law. Have a good day. Kindest Regards, mroyal

MDC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 04 Dec 2002 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote MDC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Jun 2003 at 7:22pm
	mroyal, How many hybrids were there a year ago? There are probably 4-5 times as many now. Do you really think it's a GOOD thing that drivers of "hybrid" vehicles are permitted to drive in the HOV Lanes without passengers, or is it just convenient for them? Don't you think that reducing the number of cars on the road is the purpose of HOV? HOV exceptions only lead to more people not car-pooling. From the code of Virginia, read the "includes" part. Somehow it doesn't mention engines burning gasoline. I understand that you could interpret it to include "hybrid" vehicles, but the article I linked to before obviously showed that Virginia did not include them in 2000. =========================== As used in this section, "clean special fuel" means any product or energy source used to propel a highway vehicle, the use of which, compared to conventional gasoline or reformulated gasoline, results in lower emissions of oxides of nitrogen, volatile organic compounds, carbon monoxide or particulates or any combination thereof. The term includes compressed natural gas, liquefied natural gas, liquefied petroleum gas, hydrogen, hythane (a combination of compressed natural gas and hydrogen), and electricity. ===================== People also keep saying that "it's not about MPG, but emissions". Both of my previous cars usually got 10%, or less of the "allowable" emissions rates for all tests, and neither were "hybrids"

asamson Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 26 Jun 2003 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote asamson Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 Jun 2003 at 4:03pm
	About VW and CF and MPG: I drive VW Diesel(s) - and pick up slugs no matter what. But, how do I find out if I qualify for CF tags, or any incentives? Thanks, ars

MDC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 04 Dec 2002 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote MDC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 Jun 2003 at 6:10pm
	asamson, You get better gas mileage, and that's it. How's the vehicle working for you?

Arbo Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 28 May 2002 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Arbo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jul 2003 at 12:09am
	Just saw this on MSNBC.com Local News (attributed to News4). ================== Virginia To Get Tough On HOV Violators ARLINGTON, Va., 6:24 p.m. EDT July 14, 2003 - HOV violators, you know who you are. So do the police. And pretty soon, they're about to get tough. Virginia State Police are planning what they call a "No Excuses" crackdown on violators of high-occupancy vehicle lanes in northern Virginia, along interstates 95, 395 and 66, as well as the Dulles Toll Road. For example, drivers will not be able to use the excuse that they got into the lane when the HOV rules didn't apply. Police say anyone caught alone in the HOV lane during the posted times will be ticketed. The enforcement begins on Wednesday morning. Authorities claim the number of violators has nearly doubled in the last four years. They said that on weekdays between 6 a.m. and 6:30 a.m., more than two-thirds of the drivers in the I-95 car pool lanes have no business being there. The Virginia Department of Transportation said that in the morning rush, more than a third of the HOV drivers on I-95 and on I-66 inside the Beltway are there illegally. About a quarter of the drivers on I-395 and the toll road are violators. ======================

mirangus Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 28 Aug 2002 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote mirangus Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Jul 2003 at 6:43am
	This is great news. I just posted a link for the article in the Post. It's on a separate thread if anyone is interested.

vabigblue Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 16 Jul 2003 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote vabigblue Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Jul 2003 at 1:01pm
	Personally I don't see the advantage of these hybrids driving in HOV lanes. As one person indicated, HOV is made for multiple persons driving in vehicles. Actually it makes me quite irate to see hybrids' drivers seemingly making arragont stares at vehicles with 3 or more riders. Maybe it's me, but the state needs to ban them from HOV lanes, the sooner the better. Thank you[?]

MDC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 04 Dec 2002 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote MDC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 16 Jul 2003 at 6:04pm
	Saw a new personalized CF plate on a hybrid this morning... "MY HOV" For some reason her High Occupancy Vehicle only had the driver...