cheaters vs. hybrids

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   Given the rapid growth in the South has anyone thought that the ultimate goal is to end HOV in an effort to make all lanes available to everybody?  I know there will be foaming at the mouth with that comment, but it was just a thought.

	However, I think the ultimate issue is the fact that there are only a few ways to crowd into the city and they are maxed out.  So, if this region continues to grow at the rate it is without any thought given to controlling growth and alternative transportation systems (which means higher taxes), the roads are just going to get worse.  I think removing the exemptions is only temporary patch.

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Stuck2 Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Stuck2 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Nov 2004 at 10:08am
	Given the rapid growth in the South has anyone thought that the ultimate goal is to end HOV in an effort to make all lanes available to everybody? I know there will be foaming at the mouth with that comment, but it was just a thought. However, I think the ultimate issue is the fact that there are only a few ways to crowd into the city and they are maxed out. So, if this region continues to grow at the rate it is without any thought given to controlling growth and alternative transportation systems (which means higher taxes), the roads are just going to get worse. I think removing the exemptions is only temporary patch.

Geezehead Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Nov 2002 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Geezehead Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Nov 2004 at 7:52am
	"In an effort to alleviate our growing traffic problem and continue efforts to protect our environment, the hybrid exemption in HOV lanes is necessary, and I am pleased that this legislation protects this exemption," said Congresswoman Jo Ann Davis, who petitioned the Department of Transportation to give Congress a chance to address this issue before it mandated Virginia to change its current law. "This exemption encourages clean air vehicles and helps alleviate traffic. These vehicles accomplish exactly what the HOV lanes look to accomplish, which is to cut down on air pollution and help alleviate traffic gridlock." Folks - I had to write myself in yesterday against Ms. Davis due to the ridiculous beliefs she has with regards to one-person hybrids, the environment, and traffic in general. Just way out of touch. It is unfortunate, I have been on her side in the past, but I can't let this go, especially after crawling at 30 MPH this morning with 6 one-person hybrids around me the entire time............

NoNo Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 23 Jul 2003 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoNo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Nov 2004 at 11:05am
	Actually, she had an Independent Party candidate running against her today.

SpongeBob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SpongeBob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Nov 2004 at 9:46am
	If you live in my neck of the woods, your congressional rep is Jo Ann Davis. (Who?) What kind of commute do you think she has? What kind of car does she own? Hmmm, consider this, from her website: 11/19/03 Davis Supports Measure to Protect HOV Exemption for Hybrid Vehicles Local lawmaker works with DOT to help preserve exemption Congresswoman Jo Ann Davis today supported comprehensive energy legislation which, among other things, includes legislative language providing states the authority to pass laws to allow hybrid vehicles into HOV lanes without any passengers. Although Virginia currently allows hybrids into the HOV lanes, the Department of Transportation recently notified VDOT that this law conflicted with federal law, which did not allow the exemption, stating that unless the federal law was changed, Virginia would have to comply with federal regulations and change current state law. In a letter to the Department of Transportation, Davis asked that DOT wait until Congress had the opportunity to address this issue in either Transportation Re-authorization or Energy legislation. DOT complied, and the passage of HR 6 now protects this provision. "In an effort to alleviate our growing traffic problem and continue efforts to protect our environment, the hybrid exemption in HOV lanes is necessary, and I am pleased that this legislation protects this exemption," said Congresswoman Jo Ann Davis, who petitioned the Department of Transportation to give Congress a chance to address this issue before it mandated Virginia to change its current law. "This exemption encourages clean air vehicles and helps alleviate traffic. These vehicles accomplish exactly what the HOV lanes look to accomplish, which is to cut down on air pollution and help alleviate traffic gridlock." "Folks in Virginia, specifically in the Fredericksburg region, purchased these hybrid vehicles with the intention of using the HOV lanes and protecting the environment," said Davis. "It is not fair to change the policy mid-stream on these people, and this legislation will allow the Virginia exemption to remain," added Davis. Too bad she's got no one running against her today.

MDC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 04 Dec 2002 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote MDC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Nov 2004 at 8:17am
	Getting old? What does that mean? July 2006 is still 20 months away, and there's no indication yet that the hybrids will lose their exemption. It got extended last time, didn't it? As hybrids have dramatically increased, so has the average commute time. This morning's commute is a good example. Even though it was very light compared to the recent normal, it was still about 5 minutes slower than my average time from two years ago. quote: Originally posted by adjguy [br]Can we give up on the hybrid debate. Its getting old. Lets move on. 2006 is getting near.

adjguy Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 12 Sep 2003 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote adjguy Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Nov 2004 at 11:07pm
	Can we give up on the hybrid debate. Its getting old. Lets move on. 2006 is getting near.

HOVer Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote HOVer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Nov 2004 at 1:58pm
	The number of hybrids has ballooned this year. I think a lot of recent arrivals to the area are buying them for use on HOV, thinking that they can get more house for their $ in PWC, etc., and not have a significant increase in their commuting time if they buy a hybrid. They are enjoying gas savings of course, and the tax break. On the other hand, maybe a lot of those hybrid buyers are kicking themselves because, with the increase in volume in HOV, on a typical day lately, nobody's doing THAT much better than the folks in the regular lanes! I get there just as quickly in my cheap 95 Corolla with 2 slugs as the expensive creepy looking hybrid! Lately my HOV commute has been averaging between 45 minutes and an hour most days. Ugh. I fear the days of 25 minute commutes from Lake Ridge to 14th & NY are OVER for all of us. This being the case, how do they expect to get people to PAY for this kind of commute when they turn them HOV to HOT lanes? "Took me an hour and a half to get to work today, and I got to pay $5 for the pleasure!" Yeah, right. BTW, I almost never see cheaters after 6:30AM or before 5:30PM. Can't be them clogging up the works!

tdar20 Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 29 Jul 2002 Location: va Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote tdar20 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Nov 2004 at 12:18pm
	Old arguement same answer.......2006, until then its here.

DC_Slugger Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 08 Oct 2002 Location: Va Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote DC_Slugger Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Nov 2004 at 9:02am
	Has anyone ever done the gas mileage math on a hybrid. They allow them in the HOV lanes because they are "Clean Fuel" vehicles. Last time I checked they are using the same "dirty fuel" as every other vehicle. Anyway, a hybrid averages about 45-49mpg (brand new) when going 55mph and over. Riding by themselves. My vehicle gets about 20 mpg anytime, but I have two other people in the car. So I am getting about 60 mpg (if you multiply by the people). If that hybrid had two other people in the car they would be getting 135 mpg...that, honestly, would be excellent! Anyway, all I am saying is that my "dirty fuel" vehicle is doing more for the air than that of a "clean fuel" vehicle when they are only riding with one person in the car. I don't think that it's fair for them to ride in the hov by themselves and/or get a tax break for that car. Not everyone can afford to buy one and it is certainly not doing anything for traffic congestion or air quality. It's a waste all around.

Brake4Slugs Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 12 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Brake4Slugs Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Oct 2004 at 9:14am
	According to the above numbers, hybrids are taking up a big chunk of the road, while not proving the same rider benefit. Let's just all agree that there are MANY reasons why the HOV lanes are becoming more congested. I just wish that people could stop TAILGATING! [B)] Traffic would flow better if we all left a little more space between our cars. It allows for lane changes and merges. It would also probably cut down on the number of stupid fender-benders. I try to leave at least 3-4 car lengths between my car and the one ahead. Call me silly, but it keeps me and my riders safer and it helps with the traffic flow. Is there a tailgater out there who has not heard about the recent crash on 66, where a pick-up truck rear-ended a car and killed a toddler and an unborn child? The mother tried unsuccessfully to save her child from the burning back seat. Just think about that the next time you feel the need to drive so close to my bumper you can read the brand name of my infant car seat. [:(!] Thanks for letting me vent. I feel better now.[^] Brake for Slugs ~I'd enjoy the day more, if it started later~