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koakui View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koakui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2004 at 4:16pm
One of the things that they fail to point out is this: They are studying the California HOT system. Well, in California that system works very well. It is a separate highway system apart from the other highways. For Example, you can take the 5 northbound or jump on the ramp that takes you to the toll road. If you chose the toll road, you get on that ramp, you either pay your toll or you swipe your Fast Trak card. You are off on your way until it dumps you into the city or the various side points. The toll roads provide for the repairs to their road and sets the fare charges depending on time of day and congestion. It is completely apart from the normal highway system and is funded only by those who pay to drive on the HOT aka Toll Roads. It is not in any way connected to their HOV system (by the way is HOV-2) and does not share any of the public roadways that taxpayers pay for. If you are interested, see this link about the toll roads there. http://www.thetollroads.com/home/about_history.htm

I think this may be a valid argument we should bring up at the county meeting.

What do you guys think?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WBSlug7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2004 at 3:06pm
In addition, the PWC Board of County Supervisors will hold their next meeting on Oct 19th.

This is their 2004 agenda schedule http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/001867.pdf

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WBSlug7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2004 at 2:59pm
The next PWC Transportation Advisory Board Meeting is on Thursday, October 28 at 7:30 PM where citizens will be able to discuss HOT lanes and other traffic-related issues further with the board. It's a great opportunity for us to voice our concerns.

Check out the TAB pages for more info http://www.pwcgov.org/default.aspx?topic=010087002020002696

Forget Horner Rd, use Potomac Mills!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SpongeBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2004 at 2:49pm
Point to make in reply to Gatewayslug above: transportation planners refer to "3+ passengers" meaning that many occupants, including the driver.

HOV-4 could be the answer to the HOV congestion, except for three things:

1. We'd need more parking spaces... at least 25% more to keep the same number of vehicles driving on the lanes.

2. Our opponents (or idiots, as I like to say,) talk about the "underutilization" of the HOV lanes. They obviously haven't been on them southbound on Friday at 5:00 p.m., or northbound on Tuesday at 7:45 a.m. But that fiction is going to continue to be mouthed by the enemy throughout the upcoming HOT War. Fight it with the truth.

3. Vehicles, not passengers, create congestion. Therefore, it would be necessary to reduce congestion by increasing passengers and decreasing vehicles: either eliminate hybrids or require them to carry at least 2 people, if not three.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 13yearslugger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2004 at 1:50pm
This is RIDICULOUS!!! Why do we fight to drive to D.C. to come back to PW or VA to pay our taxes to then have them propose this system, that's going to cost us MORE money, require us to probably double the time it takes us to get to work -- gosh!! I can go on and on.

And, the county is reaping the benefits of their home values rising and generating more revenue that way, too (even though they reduced the rate per 1,000, they're still taking in much more money) -- and, b/c more houses are being built b/c people want to come live here, b/c it takes only a little bit of time to get to work b/c we have such an AWESOME system!! And, why do they think that is....b/c people like Fluor Corp. or our county Sups. didn't invent it!!

I really think everyone needs to plan on going to the meeting on 10/19. This has to be nipped in the bud with a very loud voice from the slugging community!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adjguy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2004 at 12:14pm
Sponge, well said. Wow.

I never thought of it that way. Would building a light rail system coming down to at least the stafford county line help?

Other suggestions?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2004 at 11:58am
I have also been wondering about the statement that the HOV cars would also have a Smart Tag to get on the system. I could not figure any way that this would prevent cheating, since these cars would (initially) be free. Then it dawned on me what they must be planning (Note that this is was NOT stated by them). I'll bet that each HOV Person would have to have a card on them. In other words, the HOV car goes through and the system detects 3 cards. Is that possibly what they are thinking?

Separately, the smart tage system requirement for HOV vehicles may in itself put an end to slugging, if there is a requirment of a "formal" carpool registered for each car. (Again, I have not read this, just thinking out loud). Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SpongeBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2004 at 11:34am
A friend sent me a copy of Fluor's presentation to the PWC BOCS. It's all very plausible and calming on the surface. Lots of talk about buses and mass transit and shifting commuter patterns and repeated emphasis on how this is no cost and no maintenance to the local governments. Scary. Really, really scary.

The scariest part of it is that it IS going to happen. There is just no bloody way to stop it. The top VDOT official has already signed on, all the local governments are behind it, there is a billion dollars, literally, to be made just building the one measly extra lane on I-95, not to mention billions more for its management. With those kinds of dollars at stake and the politicians lined up in support, does anyone seriously think our feeble citizen protests will be heard? Of course not.

But let's not give up. Let's learn more about this dreaded thing and find all the chinks in its armor. Here's what I know/think: (please correct me if you have better or newer information,)

The HOT proposal is part of a REGIONAL traffic plan by Fluor Corporation (Clark Construction has a competing proposal.) Our I-95 slugging route is just a tiny piece of the big HOT plan. Overall, they are trying to build a network, a spider's web of HOT lanes running to Dulles, Tysons, Woodbridge, the Pentagon, Seven Corners, Old Town, Fairfax, Gainesville, etc. In other words, a for-profit toll lane system laid in alongside the existing road system. Your public thoroughfares will soon be an adjunct to a privately owned transportation network, one you will have to pay to use. Forever.

It's the BUSES that are the key to the plausibility of the HOT system. The politicians and planners hear the words "mass transit" and they just start nodding: Must be good! The problem for HOV is that the companies would prefer to limit the HOT to two types of customers: buses and tollpayers. Otherwise, the system gets overloaded. Carpools will be allowed to use the system, sure, of course they will. Heh heh. That is, until the very second the carpools begin to interfere with the toll-paying cars. Then: zap, no more freeloading non-payers on the HOT. This was made abundantly clear, some of you may recall, by the Fluor official quoted in the Wash. Post last spring. (Anyone got a copy of that article?)

Buses will be paying a toll, too, don't forget. The owner of the road isn't going to allow the pothole-causing behemoths to rumble down their private street without charging the bus company something. And guess who is going to have that little bit of something added to their fare?

Enough for now. To recap:

The issue here is at the core of our republic: are we a country where the government taxes the people to build infrastructure that can be used by everyone, or are we a country where private companies take over government's responsibilities and provide services only to those who can afford them, leaving the poor people in an inferior system?

What kind of country do you want to live in?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gatewayslug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2004 at 10:58am
Another thing I haven't seen anyone else comment on is the statement "Instead of requiring two passengers, the new lanes would require three or more passengers per vehicle to avoid a toll charge." I read that as HOV-4. Some cars just can't handle four people, especially if the driver is long legged and needs to put their seat back, and sometimes it is hard enough just getting that third person without a long wait. While this may be good for slugs at some lines by reducing the line without increasing the driver flow, it could make it harder on you when you need to drive. You have to have a sticker (so you have to plan ahead), squeeze more people into your car (and make it uncomfortable and/or unsafe if you have to adjust your seat), longer waits to fill your car; some drivers may actually find it more convenient and less time consuming to take their chances on the regular lanes.

I realize something is needs to be done to improve the traffic flow, and I don't want to stir the hybrid discussion into this thread, but I am always leary of plans that are pushed so hard by those who would benefit financially - the construction firm and the bus companies. That is one of the beauties of the slug system, it is cheaper for all involved and you aren't stuck with fitting into a fixed schedule.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ering Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2004 at 10:44am

Below is a copy of the letter I just sent to Maureen Caddigan. I am hopeful that others will do the same to stop HOT in its tracks.

Dear Mrs. Caddigan-

I am a resident of Dumfries, and a daily commuter from the Horner Road lot. I have been slugging for five years and find that this is the best, cheapest, and quickest alternative to the log-jammed roads in this area. While the HOV lanes have definitely slowed in the last couple of years due to mismanagement and short-sightedness on the part of you and your counterparts, the slow-down is nowhere near what is coming should the HOT lanes be implemented.

I am completely against the so-called Lexis Lanes for several reasons. NO ONE should have to pay for a road that they have already paid for through tax dollars. This amounts to nothing more than a double tax on the already over-burdened citizens of Northern Virginia. Further, I understand that the a third HOV lane would be constructed to handle the extra cars expected to flock in the already overcrowded "express" lanes. Unless there is a provision to widen the 14th Street Bridge, I am completely unclear as to how a third lane would benefit the flow of traffic. In fact, I see a merge from three lanes down to two as a nightmare from a congestion standpoint. Add to this the complete mechanization of toll collection and the fact that machines break, and you are adding time onto my commute. Let me stress that I am less than appreciative.

I understand that the state claims to be strapped for cash. I also understand that it's not you and your peers in county government who will suffer because of this. Rather, you will profit handsomely off the backs of commuters. You were quoted in the Potomac News as having said something to the effect of HOT lanes are the, "light at the end of the tunnel." Yes, Mrs. Caddigan, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. However, it's a freight train barreling down on those of us who are powerless to stop it.

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