Looking for Allies to Battle HOT

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   You are correct NoSUV, their taxes did help pay for the road, and they can utilize the road by picking up two people and driving in the HOV.

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CallmeMrSlug Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote CallmeMrSlug Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Aug 2006 at 10:01am
	You are correct NoSUV, their taxes did help pay for the road, and they can utilize the road by picking up two people and driving in the HOV.

SpongeBob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SpongeBob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Aug 2006 at 11:28am
	Yes, they did pay for those lanes -- how right you are. Even the "little people" who pay modest amounts into the public tax pool. In our society, everybody gets access to free education and free public roads. The toll road, on the other hand, is restricted for the use of the higher-income portions of our society. FHWA published a guide for states to use in developing toll roads that specifically lays out the pricing regimen for a toll road: it is based on the top 10% of income in the region. In other words, the government is promoting the development of a private road system for the top 10% of earners. Too bad for the rest of us; schoolteachers and firemen need not apply!

n/a Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote n/a Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 24 Aug 2006 at 3:46pm
	As Sponge so astutly points out in response to the questions NoSUV asks, yes we all pay our share to pave the roads and keep the street lights on. And CmMS brings the terms of using this infrastructure to light (yes, participating in a civilized society is conditional), anyone can use the HOV lanes if they follow the rules. And that is why we have order in our society, it has some basic rules. NoSUV and SOV hybrid elitists just don't understand that exceptions, like the hybrid exemption, are unjust and invite resentment. It would be nice if the rules could provide a clear road ahead just for you, but we all have to learn to get along in the same world. That takes tolerance and patience. And that means that we must compromise. When you live in this society you also accept the terms.

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Aug 2006 at 11:56am
	just as we accept the toll rules, eh?

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 Aug 2006 at 11:43am
	Interesting that you are looking for allies, but have made a conscious decision to not only exclude, but seemingly recruit hybrid owners to support HOT. If you REALLY were looking for allies, you'd welcome the hybrid exemption so the hybrid owners would join you in the battle. I, for one, am more than willing to write to my delegate that toll roads are exactly what we need if there is no hybrid exemption. Alienating a segment seems an odd way to get support.

n/a Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote n/a Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Sep 2006 at 2:59pm
	What you propose is blackmail! And by definition, it is radical; a simple solution to a complex problem. If you think that the only way we can fend off the HOT attack is to preserve the hybrid exemption, you are not only wrong, but wacky! Hybrid owners should join the anti-HOT battle because HOT will affect them the same way it will affect all other commuters (who don't want to pay). Do you really think HOT will preserve the hybrid exemption? OMG, the world is not safe with idiots like you at a keyboard. The only thing wrong with your hybrid is there is a loose nut behind the wheel! Sorry, I forgot the first rule in debate, you can't argue with a sick mind!

VA_Hybrid Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 30 Aug 2006 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote VA_Hybrid Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Sep 2006 at 8:41pm
	yeah i dont know why they assume that only rich people have hybrids maybe because of their poor spending habits ? Just a thought. http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/car/3600/signature.png

n/a Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote n/a Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Sep 2006 at 9:29am
	NoSUV your argument does not make any sense. You state (in your own unusual way), "...assume that the ...hybrid exemption ends," "...do you think ...that hybrid owners aren't going to clamor for toll roads?" I think they would be crazy to support toll roads! Why would any commuter who now enjoys free access to the HOV lanes support HOT roads? Wake up! The hybrid exemption will end when HOT takes effect! You didn't actually think the hybrid exemption would be 'preserved' or 'grandfathered in' did you? In case you missed something in these discussions; HOT is designed to make money for the company that builds the road. The only vehicles exempted from paying a toll will be HOV, and that is capacity limited. Once the toll road 'owners' decide that too many non-toll-paying HOVs are in the lanes at any given time, they will drop HOV access and charge everyone. And yes, access to the road will be controlled by a system that is designed to maximize profits for the company that built the roads. Our politicians will have no say. We will have no say. WE WILL ALL PAY!

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Sep 2006 at 9:59am
	raymond, you miss something, even a possible disconnect in some of your prior reasoning.... Hybrid buyers BUY their way into the HOV now so they can go SOV in HOV lanes. Why would you think they wouldn't likewise BUY their way into the HOT lanes? Even after expecting to travel for free, they've already shown a propensity to pay more for their own preferences than others. Need to keep a consistent perspective in order to build the going in position--hybrid owners are about themselves (either feeling green, going SOV in HOV lanes, whatever). Dunno, just seems logical to me that their spots won't change. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Sep 2006 at 10:09am
	NoSUV makes an excellent point. This thread is about looking for ALLIES (who needs enemas, er, I mean enemies, those are readily found around most corners). Hold the SOV hybrid drivers close until HOT becomes a non-player....then, when the time is right, dump them....that's the way to play politics. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!