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Forum LockedLooking for Allies to Battle HOT

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dickboyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dickboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2004 at 2:40pm
In addition to allies, slugs need to identify their potential enemies. The forces of evil and the powers of darkness. Slugs need to understand how to counter the FOE and POD.

Car dealers are going to be your sworn enemies. Swing them over to your side by explaining that a car is needed to get from the house to the slug lot. In slow sales times, car dealers must rent vast lots to hold their inventory. Are dealers competing with slugs for available parking? Explain to them that every dollar spent on VRE or mass transit takes food off their table. Their children may starve.

Politicians have at least 50% unemployment. If politicians lose an election, they have Commissions, Consultancies and Boards to provide income. Joe Alexander goes to work for Parsons Brinkerhoff to sell trains. Stan Paris goes to the St. Lawrence Seaway Commission. Marie Travesky goes to Bellomo McGee. Slugs have no employment opportunity for unemployed politicians. Find a champion and keep them in office.

To stay in office, politicians need publicity. Metropolitan Planning Organizations is one venue. In northern Virginia and DC, the Council of Government is that venue. Do slugs ever attend or follow the deliberations of COG? Slugs are too small a group to swing an election. Form a coalition with other transportation advocates. Reject coalitions with the FOE and POD.

Mass transit advocates are slug's worst enemy. They appear in sheep's clothing offering guaranteed ride home programs. Look closely at the fine print. If there is bus service, you aren't eligible. If there is enough demand for ride home, mass transit uses that as a sales lead to initiate a route. Mass transit is VERY expensive.

The next step up from slugs is car pools. Some car pools may look at slugs as competitors for parking. Carpools are even a smaller group than slugs. But slugs can't afford to have any more enemies than what they have now. Swing the car pools over to your side.

Van operators may look at slugs as competitors. Van operators should look at slugs as a market base. Slugs, carpools and vans all need passengers. Work out a united recruiting effort.

Homeowners (maybe I should make that singular) can be enemies if they go to city hall and complain about parking on "their" street. They don't want a repeat of what happens around the high schools. They can't get out of their driveways. Get the Civic Associations and their councils on your side.

Originally posted by Bob
[br]I would like to request any information that slugs may have on potential allies in our fight against HOT, (at least in its current form).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dickboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2004 at 3:04pm
Recruiting a slug.

Advertisers pay big bucks to get their message out. The sales price of a house includes about 6% real estate commission. Maybe a third of that goes to advertising. Check out the number of page of real estate ads in the paper. The sales price of a car has similar cost for advertising. Check out the TV ads and the number of ads in the paper.

Slugs don't have any money for advertising.

So how does a slug get the word out?

What is your experience in standing in a check out line? Has anyone ever talked to you? Have you ever talked to anyone?

Try this on for size. As you approach the end of a check out line ask the person in front of you if that is THEIR line. You may get a blank look. But then they recognize that you are asking if this is the end of the line.

If they don't appear to be friendly, end the conversation.

If they say yes, ask if you can use THEIR line. If they say yes and appear to be friendly ask if there is a fee for using THEIR line.
If they say there is no fee for using THEIR line, thank them and ask if it is OK to pay the clerk at the end.

If they still appear friendly or at least haven't called store security, make the offhand comment that you don't like waiting in line and you hope they operate THEIR line efficiently.

If they are still friendly comment that slug lines are the only lines you are willing to wait in. If they ask what a slug line is give a short explanation. Casual carpool might be too long. If they are still curious, give them the address to Dave's web page where they can find a slug lot near them.

Change the conversation. If they want to continue the discussion of slugs, let them, but don't get obnoxious. Follow the golden rule. Not the one that says he who has the gold makes the rules. The first golden rule. Do as you would be done by.

So how does this promote slugging? If a person recognizes that a check out line does not belong to them but recognizes your courtesy of not cutting in and going the extra step of making sure they aren't cutting in, they can recognize the benefits of slugging. But a check out line isn't the venue for explaining the details.

In addition to the person you are talking too, there may be three of four others that overhear the conversation.

Originally posted by Bob
[br]I would like to request any information that slugs may have on potential allies in our fight against HOT, (at least in its current form).

dickboyd@aol.com
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shirons View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shirons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2004 at 9:07am
You may have noticed on the front page of this web site a request to RSVP if you plan to attend the meeting on Jan. 5. I apologize for having to request that, but I reserved a room that can only hold 35 people and by county rules if an organization host more than 30 people they have to carry private liablity insurance. I've looked into aquiring liablity insurance for such an event and have found it to be in the high$100's for just one event.

Having seen the interest of this topic I've realized that we could quickly grow to over 30 people. So I've had to ask for RSVP. If you have already indicated on this message board that you plan to attend I've got you. If you haven't and plan to attend please do drop me a line at hotlanes@scotthirons.com.

The purpose of this meeting is primarily to get organized with a unified message with regards to opposition to HOT Lanes. At the bottom of this message is the draft agenda I'm working.

I think in the very near future, after we come together to get through the first pains of organization, we can have future fourms in which we interact with elected officials with a greater number of people (if elected officials participate we can rely on them to reserve space and deal with the insurance stuff).

Again, I apologize for the inconvience of having to RSVP, but the good news is folks appear engergized!

Draft Agenda:
1. Welcome And Introduction
2. Hot Lanes Brief Discussion Time Limit 15 Minutes
3. Why Are HOT Lanes A Bad Idea Time Limit 15 Minutes
4. How Do We Fight HOT Lanes
5. Who Are Our Potential Allies
6. Where Do We Go From Here?
-Short Term Goals
-Long Term Goals
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dickboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2004 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by shirons
[br]You may have noticed on the front page of this web site a request to RSVP if you plan to attend the meeting on Jan. 5. I apologize for having to request that, but I reserved a room that can only hold 35 people and by county rules if an organization host more than 30 people they have to carry private liablity insurance. I've looked into aquiring liablity insurance for such an event and have found it to be in the high$100's for just one event....]

Thank you for the organizing effort. The requirement for insurance smacks down the right of assembly. I can see a nominal fee for janitor or security services, but insurance for a public meeting in a public place? The County self insures, if I guess correctly, for Board of Supervisor meetings and the like. The County probably charges some housekeeping fees for meetings in libraries, fire stations, supervisors offices and the like.

Not to make too much of an issue of the public meeting thing, but any complaints about inurance should NOT come from the slugs. The forces of evil will depict you in the media as a bunch of whining law breaking cry babies.

To recruit an ally, find some other group that has had a similar request to pay for insurance. Most groups already do carry some type of liability insurance for events that happen at their meetings. Those groups, when asked for insurance, pull out their policy and show where they already have insurance.

Please don't ask to piggy back on their insurance as it could not only void their insurance, but put them in a finacial bind.

Easiest solution is find someone to insure the slug group for meetings. But since there is no formal organization, insurance like errors and ommissions, liability for accidents and the like would fall to an individual. There needs to be some type of corporate shield to protect individuals.

One way to satisfy the meeting requirement insurance is to find an existing commission and have them host your meeting. Traffic safety is one venue, transportation commission is another. There may be an education group or two, but have the officers check very carefully about what topics can be discussed at their meetings.

For instance, a PTA meeting could host a slug presentation as a source of revenue topic. The slugs could present to the PTA the opportunity cost of building parking lots and advertising for slugs as more beneficial than placing more concrete. The money not spent on concrete could be used to get the band new instruments or compenste the teachers.

If those commissions don't want to host the slugs side of the story, use the media to pillory the commissions for failure to hear ALL sides of the story. That approach is rather dicey. Walk on eggshells.

The agenda is a good one. Concentrate on finding slugs willing to reach out to the community to spread the word.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dickboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2004 at 2:13pm
Thank you for the considerable effort. In my opinion, being against something will only draw support from those that already oppose.

Machiavelli advised the Prince not to change anything. Changes only draw enmity of the incumbent and only luke warm support of those to benefit.

I would suggest that you invite, or at least discuss that other side of the story. I get the feel that this group likes the HO part but disagrees with the T part.

What are the threats?

1.That the HOt lanes will be operated at capacity and not free flow?

2. That communting cost, both in dollars and time will increase astronmically.

More later, I have to go.

quote:
Originally posted by shirons

Draft Agenda:
1. Welcome And Introduction
2. Hot Lanes Brief Discussion Time Limit 15 Minutes
3. Why Are HOT Lanes A Bad Idea Time Limit 15 Minutes
4. How Do We Fight HOT Lanes
5. Who Are Our Potential Allies
6. Where Do We Go From Here?
-Short Term Goals
-Long Term Goals




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dickboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2004 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by Bob
[br]I would like to request any information that slugs may have on potential allies in our fight against HOT,... I think that by adding thousands of cars, HOT will have a big negative impact on air quality."

HOt cuts both ways. The automobile engine produces the most pollution when changing speeds and from cold starts. Councils of Governments (COGs) focus on reducing time spent idling. The target should be to reduce the number of speed changes and the number of cold starts. Free flow reduces the number of speed changes. If HOt does add cars, something was wrong about the High Occupancy part of the design.

"I have also thought about the various "green" groups such as Sierra Club which should be pro HOV."

The Sierra Club often acts as a marketing arm of mass transit to the detriment of free flow. The well intended ecologist does not recognize being bamboozled by VRE or METRO. VRE and METRO continue to poach slug lines for passengers rather than targeting the drive alone.

"At one time I wrote a letter to AAA, which often takes political positions, but they never wrote back, so they may be pro HOT."

The HOt discussion is too early. There may be political breezes, but no political wind. Keep puffing.

"On another occasion I wrote to Omniride, but unfortunately got a pro HOT response."

The various transportation commissions, NVTC, Prince William and Rapahanok, etc., are political captives of mass transit. If you are a passenger, their attitutude is that you MUST be in METRO, VRE or any of the myriad of govenment run bus systems.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shirons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2005 at 11:03am
We held our first meeting of commuters concerned about the HOT Lane proposals last night. We had some very good discussion and are developing a plan to move forward. We'll be posting more information soon regarding this effort.

We also learned that Supervisor Corey Stewart of the Prince William County Board of Supervisors is opposed to the HOT Lane proposals and is a willing ally in our battle. We are going to attempt to arrange a 2nd meeting and have Supervisor Stewart participate. As we learn more we'll post the information.

Also,Delegate Scott Lingamfelter has a mailer survey on the street in which he asks about support for HOT Lanes. You can also take the survey online: http://www.va31st.com/survey2.asp.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JiggaJynx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2005 at 11:39am
If you take Del. Lingamfelter's survey, use this link without the period underlined: http://www.va31st.com/survey2.asp

Scott Hirons hosted a good meeting last night, allowing attendees to vent (much needed) while still capturing ideas on mission, goals, and actions. Hope lots more of you can attend any future meetings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carleric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2005 at 11:59am
I had to miss it, so is there any chance of posting something like a transcript (I know, probably not) or a digest or something to let us who wanted to be there but couldn't know specifically what was discussed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shirons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2005 at 12:56pm
I'm trying to get as much done as I can today, but don't think I'll finish. I have to run out of town to a family funeral tonight through the weekend. I'm hoping to have a summary and next steps information sheet together and posted by Monday. But in short Writing Letters - - GREAT!!!! Start writing! Both letters to editor for submission to local papers and letters to local elected leaders are needed.

Delegate Jeff Frederick of Woodbridge has a survey on his website also. Although he doesn't specifically ask about HOT Lanes he does ask how you'd like to pay for transportation solutions and at the bottom allows for entering free text for your priorities for 2005. http://www.va52.com "Take Survey" to the right.
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