Looking for Allies to Battle HOT

Arlington County provides fire protection, ambulance service, schooling and so on for the federal government presence in the area. Same for DC. Where Dick Boyd lives, Beale AFB is the tall pole in the economic tent. The county provides some police, fire and ambulance support. With BRAC, localities are in competition to retain bases. I don't think one area should pick up more of the defense bill than some other area.

Make do with less? What a concept. Are you a Marine?

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Originally posted by wdossel
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Originally posted by dickboyd
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Dick boyd's comment: The donated 20% is about the same as the amount of federal taxes collected in an eastern state like Virginia.

I believe Virginia is an acceptor state. Virginia gets back more money from the Federal Government than is collected in taxes.

dickboyd@aol.com

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I wonder...during the 80's CA got more than it's share of federal defense $$'s (especially aerospace) while states like VA were shorted on federal impact $$'s. Lest one think the federal footprint isn't very large, live in Hampton Roads for a few years and see what the area is like when a couple of carrier strike groups leave/return from deployment. That impact extends to schools, infrastructure, etc. Many of those svc members are not VA residents either -- nor should they be compelled to. Net effect is/was still a shortfall in revenue that has to be accounted for in some way -- either increase in federal impact money, raise taxes that impact everyone (e.g., sales/property) or try and make do with less. From appearances sake, it seems that option three is the option of choice [V]

- Will

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dickboyd@aol.com

Walt Starling recently passed away. His obituary was in the Washington Post.

Walt Starling was reported to be among the first fixed wing pilots to report traffic as well as fly the airplane.

Walt left at least two contributions to the language of traffic in the Washington, DC area.

The first was was Inner and Outer Beltway. Even to this day you will see signs indicating inner and outer beltway.

The second contribution was to refer to congestion as NORMAL. The word normal to describe congestion so often that even to this day motorists in and around DC beleive congestion to be the normal state of affairs. Even to the extent that any effort to releive congestion is to be treated as deviant behavior.

Some of Walt Starling's followers, Captain Dan, Andy Parks and Bob Marbourg picked up on the cry of freeing Shirley Highway's reversible lanes. They harped on the UNDERUTILAZATION of the reversible lanes. Users of the reversible lanes contacted the radio stations that carried these traffic reporters asking them to reconsider their inflamatory remarks.

It wasn't until some of the listeners went directly to the advertisers and complained about the inflamatory nature of their broadcasts that the stations provided guidance. If memory serves me, Captain Dan left the area for several years as a result.

In those days there were some slugs that played hardball.

Should you care to contribute to Walt Starling's memorial:
http://www.friendsofwaltstarling.com/


dickboyd@aol.com

What I have NOT seen on this discussion is an estimate of how much a paved road a car requires. Nor have I seen a discussion for how to pay for that paved road.

How much land does a car need? Six feet by sixteen feet in a car dealers storage lot? Eight feet by twenty-four feet for really tight parking? (Expect to pay more for ding repairs). Ten feet by thirty feet for comfortable parking? 300 square feet for your car and 50 square feet for your cubicle?

What is the floor area ratio at work? How many employees per parking space? How many square feet per employee?

Each parking space at a METRO lot is about $15,000 for at grade parking. It goes up to about $45,000 per parking space for storied garages. Parking in DC or Tysons is in the range of $30,000 per parking space.

Check Black's at your commercial real estate brokers.

If you want to keep chickens in northern Virginia, I believe you have to have a minimum of seven acres. No minimum required for car ownership. Compare that to Japan where you have to have proof of where you will park your car.

A parked car is useless. For the car to move, roads are needed. Minimum lane width is twelve feet. Then there are shoulders. Modern development calls for a minimum forty foot easement or county ownership for two lanes. Safety requirements of a minimum of one car length space for each ten MPH below 30 MPH and two car lengths for each ten MPH over 30 MPH.

A car traveling 30 MPH needs a minimum space 20 feet by 60 feet. 1,200 square feet or four times as much land as when parked. The price of that much road is about $60,000.

A car traveling 65 MPH requires a freeway type road. Something on the order of 300 feet right of way for six lanes. 50 feet width per lane. 200 feet length or 10,000 square feet or eight times as much land as a 30 MPH road. The price of that much road is about $200,000 in northern Virginia. What is the price of a quarter acre lot in northern Virginia these days?

Somebody check my math and my estimates. I'm pulling these numbers from memory of 25 years ago.

As a cross check, I've heard estimates of $4 million per lane mile in northern Virginia. A lane mile supports about 30 cars safely or 65 cars at capacity. That estimate would require $134,000 per car for free flow and $65,000 for capacity.

Capacity is evil. Free flow is good.

Roads built using those prices should last about 30 years. Free flow would require $4,500 per year. But factor in maintenance and cost of loan and the price goes to $9,000 per year. Roughly $25 per day for the road. Existing roads are probably about a tenth of those prices. About $2.50 per day per car to pay for and maintain the existing roads. Fuel taxes might amount to $1.50. Where does the other dollar come from? Bookkeeping magic? If you expect to get the money from California remember that my governator can beat up your governor.

Mass transit numbers on a passenger basis are about four times greater. Mass transit needs parking due to the housing land use policy.

All this so far is sixth grade math. Cost estimating transportation might be a good project for the students at Thomas Jefferson High School. Might make an interesting science fair project. Even the advanced placement students might tackle this if one or two parents asked for some help in how to finance their college education.

Lets see, $3,000 per year for commuting costs or $3,000 per year for a college fund? Which is more important? Those pesky kids are a real pain, so why not opt for the expensive commute? Besides, Californians will pick up the education tab for our kids. See the comment about what our governator can do to your governor.

And if you, as slugs, don't know the cost of a road or the cost of mass transit, how do you expect the drive alones who are mere mortals to know?

Bottom line? Promote the TOLL part of HOt and identify the upfront costs. Make sure the drive alones know what those costs are and that a viable alternative is to use what we got. Make sure the drive alone knows the valuable contribution slugs make to funding school systems.

If you should be tempted to ask California for the money, remember that our governator can beat up your governor. Did I repeat that?

The road I live on is a county service area. We tax ourselves and build and maintain the road ourselves. The closest you have in northern Virginia is homeowners associations.

dickboyd@aol.com

PPTA
CTB
TCC

Alphabet soup. PPTA is the Puplic Private Transportation Act. Passed in 1995 it promotes teaming to solve transportation problems. I'm surprised a slug hasn't read it and set up some type of business to capitalize on it. So far only engineering firms (e.g. Fluor Daniel) have gotten any mileage, so to speak.

CTB is the Commonwealth Transportation Board. This is the 14 member group that controls transportation in Virginia. Kate Hanley of Fairfax is the closest thing to a slug representative. Although the rural at large and the urban at large members could easily be swayed to provide more slug support.

TCC is the Transportation Coordinating Council. This is the group that puts together Northern Virginia's transportation plan.

This is the tip of the iceberg in terms of a disclosure of who the players are and the role they play in Virginia transportation.

Some Counties still have Transportation Advisory Boards. My impression is that the people appointed to those boards have been appointed more to muzzle them than to seek input.

Potomac and Rapahanock (SP?) Transportation District or some such title is a major player. As is the Northern Virginia Transportation Planning District (or whatever they call themselves) and the Northern Virginia Transportation Commission.

J. Kenneth Klinge and John Mason are probably still major players.

Slugs need a paid representative. Problem is in how to identify funds to pay that person. Another problem is to recruit a person with enough interest and a high threshold of pain to follow up on items of importance to slugs.

High Occupancy toll won't work without the high occupancy part. None of the transit groups seem to think it is their job to get passengers. Only slugs, car pools and van pools seem to be recruiting passengers. The message from every other sector is to support mass transit so someone else will ride and leave more highway space for me.

dickboyd@aol.com

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Originally posted by SpongeBob
[br]I disagree about lobbyists, paid or otherwise. What we need is a viable alternative publicly stated that
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5. Pays heed to the vast, vast majority of people who don't use, or even like, the danged HOV lanes.
<> hardly anybody in the area even knows what a slug is. WTOP called us, last week, "so-called slugs", a clear indication that our sub-culture is subber than we think it is.

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Dick Boyd Agrees. Lobbyists are not the answer. Lobbyists talk to politicians. Politicians don't commute. Or if they do, they claim diplomatic immunity so they can drive alone on the HOV lanes. Slugging needs passengers. Politicians are not passengers.

The person Dick Boyd was suggesting should be paid is the person that recruits slugs. Why don't people know about slugs? Because the slugs keep themselves a deep dark secret. Slugs roll over to claims that slugs are unpatriotic mass transit haters.

There is a position called a Transportation Management specialist. One manifestation is the Transportation store in Crystal Underground. When slugs were more active, you could find slug parking as well as promote new slug areas. But then METRO moved in and the place took on a glitz that said METRO and VRE were the only way to go for mass transit. I'm surprised VRE hasn' taken over the elevators. Transportation management specialists are anti-HOV. There is no dedicated cash flow to promote slugging.

Why don't people like HOV? Because there are so many "lobbyists" warning of the jack booted thugs that will bayonet you into ride sharing. And other lobbyists that will not be able to walk across the street to visit their sainted mothers if the insidious threat of slugging is allowed to flourish. Since they don't like ride sharing neither should you. Wassamatterchew?

Dick Boyd lives in California. Even from that distance it is apparent that residents of northern Virginia would benefit by slugging. Besides, the money otherwise spent on placing more concrete could be better spent on the school system. The time wasted in congetion could be used to plan the PTA potluck special.

dickboyd@aol.com