Hybrids - Love'em or hate'em

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   I'm a former regular slug rider (4yr from Horner!), now sometimes slug driver (17/610).  There seems to be some discussion of "free flow" vs. "at capacity" on this board wrt HOT lanes and Hybrids.  How about using the industry terminology of Level of Service?  A-G, where A is an open road, E is a roadway at capacity, F is stop and go, and G is so choked that traffic hours are extended.  You can't talk free-flow to the traffic engineers.

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LJD Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote LJD Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Hybrids - Love'em or hate'em Posted: 14 Feb 2005 at 1:07pm
	I'm a former regular slug rider (4yr from Horner!), now sometimes slug driver (17/610). There seems to be some discussion of "free flow" vs. "at capacity" on this board wrt HOT lanes and Hybrids. How about using the industry terminology of Level of Service? A-G, where A is an open road, E is a roadway at capacity, F is stop and go, and G is so choked that traffic hours are extended. You can't talk free-flow to the traffic engineers.

dickboyd Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote dickboyd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 2005 at 4:08am
	What part does the road play in pollution? Traffic engineers try to minimize idling time as the holy grail of pollution reduction. The real pollution comes from acceleration/decleration cycles. Changing speed is a larger contributor to pollution than idling. Operating a road at capacity rather than free flow guarantees stop and go traffic as well as one day in 20 of unpredictable travel time. What does it take to get roads operating free flow rather than capacity. This may be a difficult question for the area that defined blivets and reverse blivets. A blivet is trying to put five pounds of stuff in a three pound bag. A blivet is trying to put 3,100 cars per hour per lane with drivers that need two second spacing or they run into each other. A reverse blivet is trying to fill a five pound bag with three pounds. A car may have five seats but is considered full with three people on the reversible lanes. That same car may be considered full with one person on the regular lanes. With esixting occupancy trend, a car may be full with 0.8 people. Some drivers will be required to tow an empty car to keep the car count up. ;-P dickboyd@aol.com

sluDgE Members Profile Find Members Posts Master Slug Joined: 27 Oct 2003 Status: Offline Points: 501	Post Options Post Reply Quote sluDgE Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Feb 2005 at 3:51pm
	VA4ver, So you do mean the Turkey Run HOV entrance. I hear that "hop-on" to the HOV lanes is supposed to be closed to single drivers once the dedicated Springfield-Franconia exit to VA 644 is completed. Be patient, and you will not have legal single Springfield drivers jumping on at Turkey Run any longer. That should make those next two HOV exits HOV-3 only -- and it will no longer be legal for single drivers to jump on HOV lanes at Turkey Run to use the Old Keene Mill and Backlick Rd HOV exits. I suppose if the Turkey Run HOV "hop-on" remains open it will be for legal HOV-3 users only. Keep on sluggin'! [:)]

VA4ver Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote VA4ver Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Feb 2005 at 1:26pm
	That is hop on right after Edsall Road Exit.... I believe they said they were allowing regular traffic onto HOV at the 14th St. Bridge to facilitate traffic flow during repairs to the bridge. Have they changed it back? Just like exemptions, once the powers that be are too comfortable with something, it's hard to get them to change without a "little" nudging from their constituents.

sluDgE Members Profile Find Members Posts Master Slug Joined: 27 Oct 2003 Status: Offline Points: 501	Post Options Post Reply Quote sluDgE Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Feb 2005 at 12:45pm
	Edsall Road [?] How does Edsall Road traffic impact HOV? The morning entrance to HOV just north of Edsall Road is little used, and the afternoon Edsall exit from HOV has no back-up. Or do you mean the Turkey Run afternoon HOV entrance from the regular lanes that allows Springfield-Burke residents to use the Old Keene Mill Rd (Va 644) or Backlick Rd HOV exits to avoid the multi-lane crossing danger at the mixing bowl from the regular lanes? My understanding is the Turkey Run HOV entrance will be closed once the dedicated Springfield exit ramp that involves no mixing bowl multi-lane crossings from the non-HOV lanes is completed. Keep on sluggin' [:)]

VA4ver Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote VA4ver Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Feb 2005 at 10:03am
	We all agree that hybrids are the way of the future and the incentives to purchase new technology (tax break/HOV access) has made this area a haven for hybrids. It's time to allow ALL the exemptions to the HOV (Edsall Road, hybrids, off duty police, etc.) to end, and to modify the times. Keep the HOV flowing and at the same time find a solution to the traffic through a more efficient and affordable train/bus system.

Wagonman Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Wagonman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Feb 2005 at 10:40pm
	quote: Originally posted by qorc [br] quote: Originally posted by Wagonman [br] Ok, your car is cleaner. But there are still regular cars that aren't that much different than yours in terms of emissions. But most of the other hybrids sold here are a joke in terms of "clean" emissions. No, that's not true. the mileage I'm getting is typical of Prius (and I presume Honda) owners. I go to a Yahoo message board for Prius owners. I'm pretty much right in the middle. It's not CLEANER, per se. but I use a lot less gas than most vehicles out there, which makes it cleaner in terms of emissions. I'm not knocking your mileage. It may not be exactly what the EPA says, but it is still good. I'm just saying that high mileage doesn't automatically mean cleanest emissions. While using less gas is good, it doesn't help air quality around here when the emissions aren't that much better(Prius) or actually worse(Civic hybrid and Insight) than a lot of other regular cars. Higher mileage does reduce carbon dioxide emissions, but that isn't a regulated pollutant and isn't a local air pollution issue.

VA4ver Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 09 Feb 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote VA4ver Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 10 Feb 2005 at 8:45am
	Can you see a new movie in the making: Revenge of the Hybrids or Hybrids Strike Back. New phrase "May the Hybrids be with you!" Hey Sponge you've got to be the funniest sponge on the web.

SpongeBob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SpongeBob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Feb 2005 at 9:47am
	I haven't even appeared in this thread, and yet I must deal with the cruel jibes and taunts of an aggrieved population of high-bred owners who forget that I, the Sponge, Defender of Slugdom, have championed their right to keep their blasted exemption through 2006. Fair's fair, as they say. But in their honor today, I offer a modification of my previous term, "High-bred". From now on, let them be known as "Hypebrids", since Wagonman has blown a hole in their complacent claims of greater Greenity. Qorc, the Sponge stands ready to welcome you and Adjguy and the other Smugs back into The Fellowship of the Slug when the hypebrid exemption ends, which, from the look of things, may be never. When you live at the bottom of the sea, the sky is always falling. Right now, the thing I see falling on me is a hypebrid SUV carrying a load of Ford Motor Company lobbyists on their way to Capitol Hill to press for legislation that will boost the sales of their latest products. Does anyone doubt, for even a second, that the legislation will pass? The sky is falling and slugging is ending. We are living in the End Times.

qorc Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 18 Mar 2004 Location: va Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote qorc Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Feb 2005 at 7:14am
	quote: Originally posted by Wagonman [br] quote: Originally posted by qorc [br]no I have a Prius Ok, your car is cleaner. But there are still regular cars that aren't that much different than yours in terms of emissions. But most of the other hybrids sold here are a joke in terms of "clean" emissions. No, that's not true. the mileage I'm getting is typical of Prius (and I presume Honda) owners. I go to a Yahoo message board for Prius owners. I'm pretty much right in the middle. It's not CLEANER, per se. but I use a lot less gas than most vehicles out there, which makes it cleaner in terms of emissions. Hey, I like it because I went from dropping $42 a week on my truck (and slugging to work in other people's cars) to $14 a week and driving myself to work. I know the Hybrid exemption will end. But I like the economy of it. When it ends I will either become a driver or go back to slugging (IF they expand the 234 lot).