URGENT HELP NEEDED NOW - END HYBRIDS ON HOV

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   Wow!  That was typical political double speak.  He answered without an answer.  I do see he supports the HOV turning into the Hybrid Only Vehicles (HOV) lanes.  As more and more manufacturers produce hybrids, we will see the HOV turning into lanes 4 and 5 of I95.  They won't need the HOT lane issue since the HOV will be clogged with hybrids.  Pay a little more for a vehicle and get access to the HOV.  Pay now or pay later.  

	  On a side note:  Explain to me once again how a vehicle running with regular gasoline qualifies as clean fuel.

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Max_28756 Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 25 Feb 2004 Location: Va Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Max_28756 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: URGENT HELP NEEDED NOW - END HYBRIDS ON HOV Posted: 03 Jun 2005 at 11:05am
	Wow! That was typical political double speak. He answered without an answer. I do see he supports the HOV turning into the Hybrid Only Vehicles (HOV) lanes. As more and more manufacturers produce hybrids, we will see the HOV turning into lanes 4 and 5 of I95. They won't need the HOT lane issue since the HOV will be clogged with hybrids. Pay a little more for a vehicle and get access to the HOV. Pay now or pay later. On a side note: Explain to me once again how a vehicle running with regular gasoline qualifies as clean fuel.

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Jun 2005 at 9:38am
	Following from US Congressman Tom Davis: Thank you for contacting me regarding hybrid vehicles on the high occupancy vehicle (HOV) lanes. I appreciate hearing from you on this issue and I apologize for the delay in my response. As you may be aware, the Virginia Department of Transportation released an HOV Task Force Report in January which addresses this issue. Virginia Code 46.2-749.3 authorizes the issuance of clean special fuel license plates to qualifying vehicles. Vehicles registered with these plates are exempt from the HOV occupancy requirements until July 1, 2006. The report states that although they are legally exempt, these clean fuel vehicles add to the low occupancy traffic volume in HOV lanes and are a major contributor to the eroding performance of the HOV lanes on I-95. Recent traffic counts indicate that clean special fuel vehicles, most of which are hybrid vehicles, comprise up to 19% of the volumes on the I-95 HOV lanes in the morning HOV restricted period. Several recommendations are offered in the report, including ending the exemption for hybrids before its scheduled expiration July 1, 2006, requiring them to carry at least one passenger, restricting their use to certain times or capping their use at its current level. At the federal level, I have supported measures to give states leeway to allow hybrids an HOV exemption. That said, I believe states should closely monitor the situation so that HOV lanes are not rendered useless due to an over abundance of single-occupant hybrids. Ultimately, this is a decision state leaders must make. Again, thank you for contacting me. Please feel free to contact me again in the future on matters of importance to you. Sincerely, Tom Davis Member of Congress

beachhead Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote beachhead Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Apr 2005 at 4:01pm
	Spongy, There is no doubt you are correct. The whole idea of Smart Tags is nonsense. Are the tags going to use some kind of heat sensor or forward-looking infra-red radar to count the number of people in the car with the tag and transmit that to the receivers at the entrances to HOT/HOV? Either they put toll boths at the entrances with live toll-takers who can wave through HOV-3 cars or charge partial tolls for HOV-2, or they set up an automated system that will just charge everybody the same. Guess which option your political representatives will choose. Would it be the one supported by commercial interests with a big enough stake in the system's success to funnel campaign contributions in the direction of our elected officials?

SpongeBob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SpongeBob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 Apr 2005 at 8:51am
	Mr. Bill, Bob is right: there is NO METHOD available, now or in the future, to allow highway "managers" to gauge the number of bodies in a vehicle and allow an HOV-3 into the toll road for free. We've been over this ground a thousand times educating and re-educating newbies on the problems with the toll road proposals from Clark and Fluor. What we need is a FAQ on this site that addresses the basics of the differences between HOV and toll roads. BTW, it is no misrepresentation. Have you read the Fluor proposal? I have, and it clearly states: "All vehicles using the BRT/HOT Lanes would be required to have a Smart Tag/E-ZPass account. Tolling will be based on the vehicle classification below: � SOV/HOV (2) � Variable Rate Toll � HOV (3+) � Free � Buses � Free � Emergency Vehicles � Free" BUT, it then goes on to say: "HOV (3+) users will be required to open an account and use a tag in the same way as customers who pay the tolls similar to the SR-91 system. In the case of the HOV customers, their tag will be identified within the system as an HOV user when they enter through the HOV lane and the transaction will be identified as non-revenue. In addition to providing the only practical way to accommodate free usage for HOVs, this will increase the number of holders of transponders which will benefit all projects with Smart Tag capability." Now, please tell me how a Smart Tag reader can tell how many people are in the car? It can't! And what about times when you are driving solo? Do you need to have a non-HOV Smart Tag, too? Look, this whole unsolicited proposal from Fluor is a boondoggle. The proposed solutions are so drastic, and the permanent changes to our highway system so risky, it would take a fool (or someone with some money at stake,) to think Toll Roads are a good idea.

Bob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Dec 2001 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Apr 2005 at 7:31pm
	Anyone who thinks HOV will remain free under HOT is naive, in my opinion. There are no guarantees, and in CA they proved exactly what will happen - everyone will eventually pay.

Mr. Bill Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mr. Bill Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Apr 2005 at 4:30pm
	quote: Originally posted by SpongeBob There won't be any slugging because, as both Clark and Fluor admit, they have no mechanism for free or even reduced use of the Toll Roads by HOV's. In other words, everyone will pay, no more vanpools, no more carpools, no more slugging. That's the market for you. Fair to the well-off. No that is a misrepresentation of their position. That is not the way it was presented at WSHS, there will be a way for HOV to enter--the problem may be if you have a HOT tag you may still get charged. Fluor said that they will need to watch those enterances lane because that will have violators.

SpongeBob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SpongeBob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Apr 2005 at 3:06pm
	There won't be any slugging because, as both Clark and Fluor admit, they have no mechanism for free or even reduced use of the Toll Roads by HOV's. In other words, everyone will pay, no more vanpools, no more carpools, no more slugging. That's the market for you. Fair to the well-off.

Mr. Bill Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 29 Apr 2003 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mr. Bill Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 Apr 2005 at 1:47pm
	quote: Originally posted by NoSUV [br]SpongeBob: you're talking in circles - and you agreed with me! You said so yourself that if you raise the toll high enough, market forces will achieve the balance. How high is high enough? Good question - you seem to think with no analysis that it's above $50. At 10 trips per week that's about $25K/year. My goodness you make a lot of money! Maybe at $50 each way more people will want to slug because by paying $0 they are saving $100 a day [:o)]

dickboyd Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote dickboyd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 2:25pm
	From http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=12348&TOPIC_ID=1920&FORUM_ID=11 quote: Originally posted by NoSUV [br]The problem remains on how to reduce the OVERALL congestion. HOV lanes generally have excess capacity, especially compared to the regular lanes. A balancing effort is needed. One way is to allow some of the SOVs into the HOVs, which is what the hybrid exemption does quite nicely. Another way is through the use of tolls, which would allow market forces to achieve the balance by raising/lowering the toll until the desired balance is achieved. Toll could be graduated based on occupancy: $4 base fare, reduced by $2 for each additional passenger. Could make "CF" plates count as an additional person. HOV-3 still ride for free; SOV hybrids pay $2; regular SOVs pay $4. If HOV lanes are too crowded, double the toll. If balance too far the other way, cut the toll in half. Everyone wins. A better way to achieve free flow would be to convert more of the drive alones to slugging. What stands in the way of conversion? In my opinion, two things. 1. Parking. Slugging does not work without adequate parking. While the powers that be contemplate their navels determining how to enforce HOV, they miss the more important task of providing more and better parking. 2. Publicity. The message I'm hearing from the elected representatives in northern Virginia is that there is no need to provide parking. Instead, the message I hear is just let people buy low emission vehicles to solve the clean air problem. I do not hear or see a concerted effort to get more slugs. I also hear a message that slugs should be crushed. Or is that just wishful thinking on the part of one of the supervisors that is getting tired of torturing commuters and pulling the legs off of butterflies? Another message I hear is "slugs, go away, we need that land for more development." [:-(] If there is discussion of alternative operation, the concentration should be on obtaining free flow on ALL lanes of Shirley Highway. Getting a few Clean Fuel vehicles into the reversible lanes is counterproductive. Allowing single occupant vehicles sends the message that there is more than enough capacity. Allowing SOVs of any stripe sends the message that no effort is needed to get more passengers. dickboyd@aol.com

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 12:02pm
	SpongeBob: you're talking in circles - and you agreed with me! You said so yourself that if you raise the toll high enough, market forces will achieve the balance. How high is high enough? Good question - you seem to think with no analysis that it's above $50. At 10 trips per week that's about $25K/year. My goodness you make a lot of money!