hybrids get them off HOV

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   The problem with hybrids is not their fuel efficiency but rather the attitude that people who can afford them are somehow better than the rest of us.  I am single and have to support a sick child.  In addition, I don't have a place to park where I work so I slug everyday to work to save a few extra dollars.  I resent the idea that other people who can afford these cars are treated as special or priviledged.  They, like the last person said, should be required to pick up slugs or carpool (as one of the hybrid owners said they did) and they shouldn't be given a tax break.  If there is concern for our world and the environment then hybrids should continue to be produced so we can reduce our dependency on oil.  I'm all in favor of people driving them because of their efficiency and welcome the possibility of owning one someday.  However, I think the present HOV exemption is wrong and should be stopped now, not later.  I urge all of you out there who slug to contact your state delegates and senators today and tell them to vote against the extension of hybrids on the HOV!

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map077 Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote map077 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 1:05pm
	The problem with hybrids is not their fuel efficiency but rather the attitude that people who can afford them are somehow better than the rest of us. I am single and have to support a sick child. In addition, I don't have a place to park where I work so I slug everyday to work to save a few extra dollars. I resent the idea that other people who can afford these cars are treated as special or priviledged. They, like the last person said, should be required to pick up slugs or carpool (as one of the hybrid owners said they did) and they shouldn't be given a tax break. If there is concern for our world and the environment then hybrids should continue to be produced so we can reduce our dependency on oil. I'm all in favor of people driving them because of their efficiency and welcome the possibility of owning one someday. However, I think the present HOV exemption is wrong and should be stopped now, not later. I urge all of you out there who slug to contact your state delegates and senators today and tell them to vote against the extension of hybrids on the HOV!

MDC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 04 Dec 2002 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote MDC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 1:54pm
	NoSUV has this illusion that the HOV lanes go above the posted speed, most of the time. Maybe they do between Edsall Rd and NoSUV's hybrid selling auto dealership. But that's not the experience of people who carpool, ride the bus, or slug from anywhere South of there.

SillyBilly Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SillyBilly Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 2:10pm
	mdc has the illusion he is god. And the illusion that everyone on earth does the speed limit

dickboyd Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote dickboyd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 2:28pm
	quote: Originally posted by ProNo [br]Greetings, sluggers. I'm new to this message board. I've tried to look through the many messages on this topic, but please forgive me if I overlooked something important. Someone suggested that the HOV lanes are actually underused, and that bottlenecks only appear at certain times and are therefore a minor issue. Even if the bottlenecks come and go, that doesn't justify of Hybrids. For me, and I'm sure many others, the congestion problem is unavoidable because we don't have the option of commuting at other times when the lanes are freer. We are forced to contend with increasing bottlenecks that contain legions of cars carrying only one driver. I've been slugging for three years, and my commute has gotten more and more lethargic each year. In that same span, Hybrid vehicles have far outpaced the overall traffic volume increases. There aren't appreciably more cheaters than there used to be, but I frequently find myself behind caravans of 4 or 5 Hybrids in a row. I am not opposed to hybrids. In fact, I love them. Triple the tax break for Hybrids. Heck, give Hybrids away for free! But don't exempt them in the HOV lanes. They are increasing exponentially, and it's dragging on travel times. It's a problem that simply has to be stopped. Does anyone know if there still time to stop an extension of the Hybrid exemption? Is there time to stop an extension of the hyrid SOV exemption? Yes, ask Governor Kaine to veto the bill. Explain why free flow is better than congestion. Use words that a politician can understand. dickboyd@aol.com

dickboyd Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote dickboyd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 2:32pm
	quote: Originally posted by NoSUV [br]ProNo: Let's see - I think the report said that over a quarter of a million people moved to NOVA over the past 5 years, and about that many are expect in the next 5. Do you suppose that influx of people (and cars) had an effect on your commute? Have you looked to your right lately? Has the commute improved for the regular lanes? If you think about it seriously, you can see that hybrids or no hybrids, the commute is worse for everyone. Currently, the express lanes move at or above the speed limit the majority of the time; during the peak commuting hours, the regular lanes move at a crawl. Even if 25% of the people in the regular lanes joined the slugging system, traffic in the regular lanes would still crawl, but the express lanes would be clogged. The solution is to make public transportation less costly than commuting. Since the majority of slugs ride for free, that presents a problem. The solution is to charge slugs - that's why the legislature is so keenly interested in converting to toll roads. Once it costs more to privately commute, regardless of informal car pools, then public transportation and the mess from the significant population increase can be addressed. Where do hybrids fit it? Simply put, it makes no sense to anyone to have express lanes moving above the speed limit with relatively few cars while the regular lanes are so clogged. To get some of those cars out of the regular lanes, a discriminator needs to be used. Could be pick up trucks or SUVs, but our enlightened legislature decided to try to make a legacy impact on our environment and fuel consumption by promoting something "green." And it worked. Thus sending the message that every commuter should be equally miserable. Rather than an effort to get more passengers, the assembly opts to flow more cars. Strange as it may seem, a reduction of 25% of the cars in the regular lanes would result in free flow of ALL lanes. The greatest commodity in rush hour is empty seats in the cars of the drive alones. For immediate relief of congestion, recruit three slugs. dickboyd@aol.com

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 2:44pm
	Ergo, let's look for HOV-4 for ALL vehicles in the HOV lanes. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

map077 Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 22 Apr 2003 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote map077 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 3:46pm
	quote: Originally posted by NoSUV [br]ProNo: Let's see - I think the report said that over a quarter of a million people moved to NOVA over the past 5 years, and about that many are expect in the next 5. Do you suppose that influx of people (and cars) had an effect on your commute? Have you looked to your right lately? Has the commute improved for the regular lanes? If you think about it seriously, you can see that hybrids or no hybrids, the commute is worse for everyone. Currently, the express lanes move at or above the speed limit the majority of the time; during the peak commuting hours, the regular lanes move at a crawl. Even if 25% of the people in the regular lanes joined the slugging system, traffic in the regular lanes would still crawl, but the express lanes would be clogged. The solution is to make public transportation less costly than commuting. Since the majority of slugs ride for free, that presents a problem. The solution is to charge slugs - that's why the legislature is so keenly interested in converting to toll roads. Once it costs more to privately commute, regardless of informal car pools, then public transportation and the mess from the significant population increase can be addressed. Where do hybrids fit it? Simply put, it makes no sense to anyone to have express lanes moving above the speed limit with relatively few cars while the regular lanes are so clogged. To get some of those cars out of the regular lanes, a discriminator needs to be used. Could be pick up trucks or SUVs, but our enlightened legislature decided to try to make a legacy impact on our environment and fuel consumption by promoting something "green." And it worked. I'm not sure you understand my point - I am very environmentally minded and I am all for alternate forms of fuel, vehicles, etc. But hybrids in the HOV allow only a select few to have access and are given privileges (i.e., a tax break) that others are not getting. And, to add insult to injury, they drive alone for the most part without a care in the world about the environment (not all but it's obvious there are plenty who do not give a hoot). And I don't care what you say, they DO clog the HOV lanes, I've been there and seen it first hand. And you talked about the population growth - don't you think it's appropriate that we pack each car with as many people as possible to help alleviate the congestion instead of promoting cars with one person in them? Why should we buy into the idea that there is a population explosion so we have to accept the congestion? That's crazy! And you said our "Enlightened legislature" - that's an oxymoron if I ever heard one! There was nothing "green" about what they did - my bet is they were "bought" by the car manufacturers/car dealerships with both sides seeing an opportunity for making money. Think about it - if these cars are being purchased at such a high rate who is getting part of the profits for these sales? The State of Virginia!! Still think their motives were honorable?? If so, I have some ocean front property in Arizona I'd like to sell you..............

ProNo Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote ProNo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 7:00pm
	NoSUV, It's no contest that the population of the area has grown dramatically in the last three years and that commutes have worsened as a result. But in that same time, the incentives for this growing population to buy and use a hybrid have also increased. Gas prices have gone up; the "cool factor" is sky high; more tax breaks have been proposed; and now that the main-lane commutes are beyond bad, the HOV exemption is even more attractive. The result is more people buying more hybrids. So I would theorize that a general population increase along the 95 corridor WITH an available Hybrid-exemption option is going to negatively impact HOV-lane congestion MORE (because existing conditions strongly favor getting a hybrid) than the same increase would WITHOUT the Hybrid exemption. In other words, all things being equal, hybrids hurt everyone more(speaking strictly about time in transit).

CallmeMrSlug Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote CallmeMrSlug Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Feb 2006 at 12:06am
	You have all made the reasonable, sensible arguments why a single hybrid vehicle is not enviromentally friendly, does not alleviate congestion on the roads, and does not promote the greatest good for the greatest number. The response from NoSUV will surely be selfish, he will blame you for traffic congestion and environmental concerns even though you been slugging for more years than he has lived here. Also, where does one get on the HOV from Edsall Road??? Guess he drives south, expending more fuel than necessary, to save time going north. But he is concerned about fuel efficiency and the environment? Give me a break...

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 15 Feb 2006 at 6:54am
	This grows tiresome. We give voice to his unreasonable assertions by discussing it further with and about him. Henceforth, posts from him are automatically filtered from my reading. I believe in reasonable dialogue. His starting point is unreasonable, therefore untenable for reasonable dialogue. Replying to him is to be equated with replying to the "critters" that are prowling this site and cluttering it up. I recognize one of them from a prior username. He's a weak individual, to be more pitied than others. How? He uses some of the same language the other username did and has the same misspellings when he decides to write more than a word or two. Some nuisances are best administered "extinction" than acknowledgement. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!