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MDC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MDC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2005 at 11:49am
qorc,
While I agree that commuting with kids is silly, three people is three people. There is no exemption in place for them since it's not needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SpongeBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Apr 2005 at 10:23am
If I had more than two teeth, I'd be gnashing them. Qorc's post of yesterday is something like a high point for him. I don't feel guilty my daughter is in daycare -- she LIKES it. All her friends are there. At home, even in our nice neighborhood, all her friends live streets away -- too far for 8-year-olds to go alone. So at daycare they get to hang out or do crafts or play on the playground or play computer games, or put on plays or study photography or trade Pokemon cards... whatever they want, mostly. She also gets her homework done early and her schoolwork has improved.

We're all glad, sort of, that Qorc's kids are thriving. So are ours. But Qorc's selfish high-bred approach to commuting is clogging the HOV lanes and making everyone else's day longer. Selfish is the Qorc, and to express my Spongy disdain of him, I will no longer address him directly.

As for three riders, expecting him to count past No. 1 is like expecting him to recognize that women may have more to contribute to society than bundt cakes and shiny linoleum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2005 at 9:20am
Maybe you do not like qorc has to say but it degenerated after his comment. Now he did call the folks on this list hypocrites so maybe that was a little inflammatory. This could have been an interesting discussion. I have made the point that the reason for the HOV is to get cars off the road, maybe transporting kids does not take cars off the road--but we have a system that is poorly enforced now how will this make it better?

I have read that the HOV was initially added to the Henry G. Shirley Memorial Highway for bus rapid transit (also the designer thought this was a better alternative to a subway--an idea the designer opposed). The carpools were a later addition, so the bus drivers and operators should be on this list arguing against continuing the car exemption [:D]

http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Shirley_Busway.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2005 at 10:38am
Fact is, it doesn't matter what the HOV was "originally designed for" etc, etc.

If we don't stop the hybrids, we will have an avalanche of hybrids. The motorcycle and child allowances are non-issues and will never affect the amount of vehicles in the HOV.

So the entire argument is moot and is put out there to theoretically make us hypocrites. Nope.
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Mr. Bill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2005 at 4:29pm
I think that the exemption should be lifted (the HOV are HOT lanes if you can afford to replace your vehicle with a hybrid). The goal is to get cars off the road Hybrids do not do that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tlschau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2005 at 2:30pm
Sponge, I think you need to be careful in the way you are seemingly minimizing a Mom's importance in the family, especially stay at home Moms. "Bundt cakes and shiny linoleum", as you so elegantly put it, are the greatest contributions that a Mom can give to her kids and to society as they are much more valuable to them and their well-being than having 2 BMW's in the driveway.

But back to the discussion regarding counting children in a HOV vehicle. HOV's purpose is to get as many people from point A to point B as efficiently as possible. The last I checked, children are people too. So it doesn't matter if they 8 days old or 101 years old, they are people who are going from point A to point B. Using qorc's logic, nobody without a license should be allowed on HOV. So what about Grandma who doesn't drive? Does she not qualify either? Are we all going to have to tape our licenses to our heads while in HOV so we don't get pulled over? But maybe we shouldn't stop there, just because you have a license doesn't mean that you actually drive a car. So maybe we should be required to have a license AND a car.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote qorc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2005 at 9:28am
quote:
Originally posted by tlschau
[br]Sponge, I think you need to be careful in the way you are seemingly minimizing a Mom's importance in the family, especially stay at home Moms. "Bundt cakes and shiny linoleum", as you so elegantly put it, are the greatest contributions that a Mom can give to her kids and to society as they are much more valuable to them and their well-being than having 2 BMW's in the driveway.
----- ---
AMEN!! I'm also amazed by the smug justifications people have for warehousing their kids in daycare, and putting down women/families that raise their own kids.
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But back to the discussion regarding counting children in a HOV vehicle. HOV's purpose is to get as many people from point A to point B as efficiently as possible. The last I checked, children are people too. So it doesn't matter if they 8 days old or 101 years old, they are people who are going from point A to point B. Using qorc's logic, nobody without a license should be allowed on HOV. So what about Grandma who doesn't drive? Does she not qualify either? Are we all going to have to tape our licenses to our heads while in HOV so we don't get pulled over? But maybe we shouldn't stop there, just because you have a license doesn't mean that you actually drive a car. So maybe we should be required to have a license AND a car.


-------------

Look, I'm just bringing up a point about "selective outrage" over hybrids. Hybrids are apparently BAD BAD BAD because they only have one person in them and don't take slugs (who are by definition other DRIVERS in almost every case). So it goes back to the PURPOSES of HOV as it was set up - which were TWO (people like to forget the second one) namely, ease congestion AND as a strategy to reduce emissions. Hybrids reduce emissions by having anywhere from 2-4 times the mileage of most vehicles out there.

Yet they don't take drivers off the road. true. But neither does someone driving their car with CHILDREN in it.

I'm not saying this EXEMPTION from the original goals is wrong or not worthy, all I'm saying is that CHILDREN do not provide additional relief to 95 by removing drivers from the road. thus CHILDREN do not create an easier commute on 95 NOR reduce emissions. Thus, neither goal is served.

But if you're going to rag on people with hybrids, rag on other forms of transportation that do not remove drivers from the road INCLUDING the exemption for children, and yes, even motorcycles (last time I checked, they take up a lane too, but yes, they DO serve the second goal of reducing emissions).

Just trying to broad and rationalize the debate. If it was up to me, you'd have to be of DRIVING AGE to be counted in HOV. that would help BOTH sides of the lanes, to be honest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VA4ver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2005 at 12:44pm
You know we all pay the taxes to support the HOV. As long as the rules are followed, who really cares who occupies the car? Next you'll be saying "stay off the road unless you are heading to/from work between the hours of such and such." The only thing that could possibly improve transportation is to improve access to DC (we funnel onto three bridges), keep HOV and no HOT, remove the hybrid/motorcycle/off duty exemptions and improve public transportation. That's all that should be discussed here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wagonman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2005 at 1:40pm
quote:
Originally posted by qorc
Hybrids reduce emissions by having anywhere from 2-4 times the mileage of most vehicles out there.

But if you're going to rag on people with hybrids, rag on other forms of transportation that do not remove drivers from the road INCLUDING the exemption for children, and yes, even motorcycles (last time I checked, they take up a lane too, but yes, they DO serve the second goal of reducing emissions).




Your assumption of increased mileage meaning lower pollution is incorrect. The Honda hybrids sold here are dirtier than a lot of other regular cars. The Prius and Escape are cleaner than most other cars sold here(except CNG cars that are much cleaner) but not by a huge margin. In California there are cars sold that are just as clean as the hybrids in every category except CO2 emissions(which aren't regulated yet so don't really count). Its just that California gives hybrids an AT-PZEV rating while normal cars get the PZEV rating. The only difference is some "advanced technology".
I think you were also trying to imply that motorcycles have clean emissions. Generally, they don't. Since they are so few in number they have been ignored, for the most part, by government regulators.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul HOVillegal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2005 at 9:55am
Please leave qorc. My head hurts when I read your message.

Paul
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