Springfield Interchange - How Much Boondoggle?

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   Given the $700 million cost of the Springfield interchange, was it worth the cost overall?  Can you imagine what even a small fraction of that money could have done if applied south of Springfield and to the Occoquan?  I think a third lane to the Occoquan would have been maybe $30 million (?)

	Also, what would you have done differently if you were a planner for Springfield?  I think there was boondoggle here, but would like others opinions.  Not that I'm not glad we will have it done.  It will help us, but at what cost in lost opportunity elsewhere along 95?

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Bob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Dec 2001 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Springfield Interchange - How Much Boondoggle? Posted: 04 Aug 2005 at 9:24am
	Given the $700 million cost of the Springfield interchange, was it worth the cost overall? Can you imagine what even a small fraction of that money could have done if applied south of Springfield and to the Occoquan? I think a third lane to the Occoquan would have been maybe $30 million (?) Also, what would you have done differently if you were a planner for Springfield? I think there was boondoggle here, but would like others opinions. Not that I'm not glad we will have it done. It will help us, but at what cost in lost opportunity elsewhere along 95?

Bob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Dec 2001 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Aug 2005 at 10:38am
	As an example, I would cite the flyover that is currently under construction that would take southbound 395 onto the outer loop. This massive flyover is replacing a simple cloverleaf. Is that really justified? Is there really that much traffic on a given day going down 395 toward the Wilson? Also, the flyover that takes Franconia Road westbound onto southbound 95. I hardly ever see anyone using it. But the Springfield project is certainly a monument to making an intersection where every conceivable ramp is a massive flyover, whatever the need. Now if we just had a couple of hundred million back.

Luddite Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Luddite Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Aug 2005 at 4:00pm
	Flyovers are replacing cloverleafs (sp) because too many drivers are unable to carefully, effectively, and safely negotiate cloverleafs (sp). Too many decisions involved. I'm not kidding nor being toung-in-cheek. The vast majority of drivers can barely handle a simple merge at speed...even where there isn't gridlock. If you aren't going the speed limit at the end of your merge lane, you're going to cause a slowdown. Enough people failing to get to mainline speed before the end of the merge lane and you've got a jam. Very simple. With a flyover, eaters, phone talkers, drinkers, and the generally impaired only have to negotiate a merge. Very simple.

USA Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Jun 2002 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote USA Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Aug 2005 at 4:06pm
	The flyover from southbound I-395 is being constructed because the loop-around ramp needs to be demolished to allow for the southbound lanes of I-395 to exist, as they will be relocated some distance to the west (the right as you head southbound) to make room for other lanes on I-95. In addition, a new set of lanes leading from southbound I-395 to the Old Keene Mill/Franconia exit will be constructed, and those will also impact the ground on which the loop-around ramp now sits. (These lanes are important because they will eliminate the merging back and forth that goes on through there at present.) There will also be a new ramp from the Outer Loop onto I-395 that will involve exiting on the right--you can see one of the early supports for this ramp just to the south of the overpass that used to be used for the Outer Loop. This new ramp is considered desirable because it will allow for a right-hand exit onto I-395, which most people will always agree is preferable to a left-hand exit. I can't wait for them to get rid of that loop-around ramp. I live off Van Dorn and that ramp is in such deplorable condition (potholes, bumps, open seams, etc.) that I've largely stopped using it. I now get off at Franconia Road and head east. Anyway, based on how the Inner Loop of the Beltway has improved between Van Dorn and the Springfield Interchange, I'd definitely say that the long I-95 flyover that's been built has been a HUGE benefit. It used to be that the whole Beltway would gridlock through there because of the need for everyone to use the chokepoint merge between the Beltway and Old Keene Mill/Franconia. Now that the I-95 traffic no longer uses that merge, you can actually get on the Beltway and get up to 65 mph. The two key things here are: (1) I think it's fair to say that people need to reserve judgment until the whole project is done. (2) The hardcore HOV users are less likely to notice the benefits of the project than the people in the main lanes, because the purpose of the project is to eliminate all the insane merging and weaving that goes on there (and the attendant accidents).

dickboyd Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote dickboyd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Aug 2005 at 3:25am
	quote: Originally posted by Bob [br]Given the $700 million cost of the Springfield interchange, was it worth the cost overall? Can you imagine what even a small fraction of that money could have done if applied south of Springfield and to the Occoquan? I think a third lane to the Occoquan would have been maybe $30 million (?) Also, what would you have done differently if you were a planner for Springfield? I think there was boondoggle here, but would like others opinions. Not that I'm not glad we will have it done. It will help us, but at what cost in lost opportunity elsewhere along 95? In the grand scheme of things, I-95 IS an interstate. The original thought was to have I-95 go THROUGH DC. That never happened. Instead, I-95 traffic goes around DC on the beltway. In hindsight, a western bypass and an eastern bypass would have been more cost effective than trying to force so many vehicles through so little available space. Maryland handles north-south traffic with two parallel high service roads. I-95 and the BW Parkway (MD 295). the counterpart parallel to I-95 in Virginia would be Route 1. In the long term view of transportation (five years out), a better plan would be to complete a 301 corridor to the east and a Route 15 corridor to the west. Give or take thirty to forty miles west. Why was Dave Gehr really fired? dickboyd@aol.com

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Aug 2005 at 7:27am
	Dick, Suggest you getting a life...or at least some sleep man! What's up with posting at 3:25 in the AM? NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

dickboyd Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote dickboyd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Aug 2005 at 3:10pm
	quote: Originally posted by N_or_S_bound [br]Dick, Suggest you getting a life...or at least some sleep man! What's up with posting at 3:25 in the AM? NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care! I live in California. I try to do computer stuff off line and queue it to the net when I have time. The posting time has little to do with when I wrote it. Also, there may be a queue in processing. As a test, it is now 12:18 PM Friday, August 5, 2005. Time to go tend the bees. Are you familiar with Turing Test? dickboyd@aol.com

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Aug 2005 at 3:49pm
	Ok, thanks. Yep, familiar. Thanks again. Cool stuff. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!