Wake Up People! HOT lanes

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   No goober, the problem is that there are so few taxpayers per road mile in the rest of the state that our taxes for roads are pulled away from the region (where we see the need) and used in rural areas. This revives the discussion about NoVA taxes supporting rural VA infrastrucure. Its not fair! Many would say that our NoVA tax dollars should stay here in NoVA, and certainly they would be put to good use. But that would mean that much of rural VA would not have adequate roads.

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n/a Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote n/a Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Jan 2006 at 2:54pm
	No goober, the problem is that there are so few taxpayers per road mile in the rest of the state that our taxes for roads are pulled away from the region (where we see the need) and used in rural areas. This revives the discussion about NoVA taxes supporting rural VA infrastrucure. Its not fair! Many would say that our NoVA tax dollars should stay here in NoVA, and certainly they would be put to good use. But that would mean that much of rural VA would not have adequate roads.

dickboyd Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 13 Nov 2004 Location: California Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote dickboyd Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Dec 2005 at 8:10pm
	quote: Originally posted by goober [br]Good point. I know that roads are a top priority in Northern Virginia but since we are regionally separate, it can't be as high a priority with legislators in the rest of the state. The current HOV lanes definitely need improvement. Expansion for the current volume of traffic and resurfacing inside the beltway is obviously required. But conceptually, it doesn't appear to be that expensive to complete. So, why can't we pay for it ourselves and exclude developers? We have $800 million to spend on transporation improvements but I'll bet NoVA gets a small proportion compared to the other areas. Developers are always in it for themselves -- paint a rosy picture and leave everyone scratching their heads in the end. It's not only these newfangled private road developers but you can lump housing developers in there too.[:(!] This notion of PPTA should not apply to existing roads that we paid for already! Goober Dillon Rule dickboyd@aol.com

goober Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote goober Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Dec 2005 at 3:11pm
	Good point. I know that roads are a top priority in Northern Virginia but since we are regionally separate, it can't be as high a priority with legislators in the rest of the state. The current HOV lanes definitely need improvement. Expansion for the current volume of traffic and resurfacing inside the beltway is obviously required. But conceptually, it doesn't appear to be that expensive to complete. So, why can't we pay for it ourselves and exclude developers? We have $800 million to spend on transporation improvements but I'll bet NoVA gets a small proportion compared to the other areas. Developers are always in it for themselves -- paint a rosy picture and leave everyone scratching their heads in the end. It's not only these newfangled private road developers but you can lump housing developers in there too.[:(!] This notion of PPTA should not apply to existing roads that we paid for already! Goober

Bob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Dec 2001 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Dec 2005 at 6:03pm
	Now the UVa website says that we will have a 3 BILLION DOLLAR surplus in VA next yr. Of course, all the state employees are salivating over increased salaries and benefits. So you ask why I am so cynical when just a fraction of the surplus could solve our regional problems, but we have been sold to HOT developers http://www.virginia.edu/topnews/

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Dec 2005 at 11:06am
	You did ignore one essential component to the equation: The need for tolls evaporates if the HOV lanes becomes bus only lanes. No need to extend HOV (or HOT) since those who put a premium on commute time over personal space have already shown a proven willingness to sacrifice personal comfort/convenience/space to achieve a relatively expeditious commute. Those who haven't shown that willingness continue to either sit in the main lanes mvoing at 5 mph on a good day or have attempted to purchase their way to a faster commute by financing themselves into an overpriced, overmarketed vehicle. The reward for selfishness should never be to give the selfish one what they hoped to achieve thereby enforcing their overly selfish behavior. Extinction of such behaviors is the only reasonable approach. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Dec 2005 at 9:27am
	I actually think that it would be better for the congestion problem if NO ONE rides for free - except for HOV-40 (for 1/2 price). Essentially, buses pay nothing, and passengers pay 50% of what they would have paid if going through the toll booth. Buses pick up/drop off where the slug lines are now - with no stops in between. Commuters can choose to pay full price and wear and tear on their cars or let the bus take them for 1/2 price. Can't swear to it, but makes sense to me that the overall congestion problem goes away.

Bob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Dec 2001 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Dec 2005 at 3:49pm
	I put a little thought into this. The best I can come up with would be some kind of resolution by the General Assembly that states something like "We are approving HOT for 95, but realize that in the future there could (likely will) arise a major conflict with HOV because of a large number of HOVs and the HOT operators wanting to charge HOVs. We resolve that should this situation arise, NO solution will be granted that will allow the charging of tolls to HOV3 (or 4). Possible solutions would include in the future no toll vehicles on the 395 portion of this road. Or a state tax to pay off the HOT lanes and make them public HOV again". Bob

goober Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote goober Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Dec 2005 at 3:05pm
	NoSb, I don't have any numbers as to which set of lanes transport more bodies but it would be interesting to know. My reference to "the greater percentage of people in the regular lanes" is to those that would favor HOT vs. those that would oppose HOT. The only reason I can think of as to why drivers in the regular lanes would oppose HOT is that they can't afford it. So, all the rest should side with those decision makers that favor HOT. Any thoughts on how to guarantee that HOV will be free forever? Goober

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Dec 2005 at 2:35pm
	Goober, Do you have numbers to compare that more people travel the main lanes than do the express? I heard comparisons years ago and the numbers favored the express lanes. That may not be the case anymore. Would be interested in knowing though. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

goober Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 28 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote goober Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 23 Dec 2005 at 2:10pm
	JoanA, Yes, based on my experience, complaining on this board, attending those meetings, or writing seemed to have had little to no effect. Note that most readers go to the general board and not the HOT Lanes Discussion forum. Even if you try to drum up some noise about HOT, most people don't care. The politicians care because this is a no brainer decision to go with HOT for the masses (people in the regular lanes, to be more specific). As a politician, you can proudly say that you will be improving the traffic mess because you're adding another lane, extending HOV (?) lanes, and generating revenue. We all know better than that, but a politician needs to cater to people that will get him/her re-elected -- the greater percentage of people in the regular lanes. Also, the decision makers need to ensure that he/she sides with those businesses that might potentially help in the future, you know, those back door deals that leave you scratching your head. So how can we "guarantee" that HOV will be free? Goober