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Peter Frank View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 Oct 2005 at 10:49am
Last night HOT Lanes meeting in Fairfax was fascinating. Where was everyone!? I’m not just talking about the sluggers – No – I’m talking about the single drivers too. These proposals affect (and will effect) 56 miles of road from the DC line down to wherever. This is not building a useless parking lot at the corner of 123 and 95 that nobody uses and so your response is “Well I guess VDOT screwed up again.” No – this is going to have a direct impact not only on our commutes but on the price of real estate in the region. These presentations given last night should have been given at Garfield High school in the gym on a Saturday morning for the public to view and question. We are spending $1 Billion dollars. This project is so huge that it should be a ballot initiative for the voters in the area affected by it to vote on.

NOVEMBER 1ST TUESDAY IS THE FINAL MEETING IN SPRINGFIELD SOMEWHERE FOR THE ADVISORY BOARD TO MAKE ITS RECOMMENDATION TO VDOT ON THE PROPOSALS. BE THERE!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sheepish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2005 at 6:22pm
Did you attend the meeting back in September in Prince William County? The only one where public comments were made? I did. And I thought the very same question... where was everyone?!

I still believe the general public that travels up and down the 395/95 corridor haven't a clue as to how HOT will impact them. I'm talking about all the people that utilize the lanes in the evenings and on the weekends..... any time at all during non-rush hour times when HOV is not in effect. (and yes, that includes me too) Does the general public realize that they will have to pay to travel on these lanes if HOT becomes a reality? Of course you never hear the media point that out--- they only discuss it in terms of rush hour useage.

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Peter Frank View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Frank Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2005 at 9:21pm
After last night presentation of HOT lane management I am here to tell you this is not just a Monday to Friday commuter problem. It affects all of us down the I-95 Corridor ¡V 56 miles worth of lanes.

Here¡¦s the deal.
ć VDOT has two proposals from the private sector it is considering.
ć The bottom line of both has the company manage (operate and maintain) the HOV lanes currently in existence while building new HOT lanes too.
ć These lanes would be active 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
ć HOV-3 is Free.
ć Non HOV-3 pays toll via a transponder.
ć The toll fees will change depending on the volume of use and the time of the day.
ć The 56 miles of road will be broken down into either 3 or 2 segments depending on the vendor but these details were very vague at the October 11th meeting.
ć The Commonwealth Transportation Board does have the ability to raise the HOV-3 to HOV-4.
ć Access to the lanes will stop if performance on the lanes falls below a certain point.

One point among many to make clear is this ¡V If there is an accident in the regular lanes the HOT lanes will not open up for free. Usage will pick up and as demand picks up so does the toll. The vendors were asked about a major accident that would shut down the regular lanes and the vendors said they could discuss that issue in the final contract.

Points of concern and unanswered questions with the HOT lanes from the October 11 meeting.

ƒá Are the HOT lanes in effect 24/7? ¡V 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
ć Is HOV-3 free only during the HOV hours? M-F 6-9 AM in the morning and 3:30 to 6 PM in the evenings.
ƒá Will HOV-3 Free extend past the current Rt 234 HOV lanes? IE ¡V down to Stafford and Spotsylvania
ć What is the maximum toll in any given segment before the lanes are shut down to access?
ć What is the minimum toll one could expect to pay for the entire trip of 56 miles in a morning commute?
ć What is the maximum toll one could expect to pay for the entire trip of 56 miles in a morning commute?
ć Will the variable pricing only be in affect during rush hour or will it be in affect on weekends too? E.g. Summer Saturdays.
ć How are the profits split between the vendor and Virginia? Does the revenue stay in Northern Virginia?
ƒá Will the current HOV lanes be a toll road on Saturday, Sunday, holidays and week nights? IE ¡V Will the current HOV lanes always be toll lanes outside of the HOV-3 free M-F hours? Will the current HOV lanes always (24/7) be a toll lane for single and double riders.

If yes, considerations for citizens:
ƒá Driving to the DCA airport ¡V Toll
ƒá Saturday summer traffic ¡V toll
ć Will EZ pass work on these roads? Major US corridor especially in the summer?
ć Currently the HOV lanes relieve some congestion on weekends for the regular lanes traveling in the same direction of the HOV lanes. This relief will be gone or at least folks will be paying a toll to use the HOV lane.

"THERE ONCE WAS A DREAM THAT WAS ROME - THIS IS NOT IT!" - GLADIATOR

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SpongeBob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SpongeBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2005 at 1:37pm
Peter, this is SpongeBob -- I think you know me...

I can answer some of your questions...

Are the HOT lanes in effect 24/7? ¡V 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?
YES

Is HOV-3 free only during the HOV hours? M-F 6-9 AM in the morning and 3:30 to 6 PM in the evenings?
NO, the promise [;)] is free all the time.

Will HOV-3 Free extend past the current Rt 234 HOV lanes? IE ¡V down to Stafford and Spotsylvania?
YES, if you believe it will be free....

What is the maximum toll in any given segment before the lanes are shut down to access?
There is no maximum; it will be driven as high as necessary to ensure free flow. Thus my comment that these are Limo Lanes.

What is the minimum toll one could expect to pay for the entire trip of 56 miles in a morning commute?
If it was $.30/mile, the lowest per-mile amount mentioned, then a 30 mile trip is going to be $9 a day, $90 a week.

What is the maximum toll one could expect to pay for the entire trip of 56 miles in a morning commute?
The numbers are fuzzy, but MWCOG says about $40 one way is "likely."

Will the variable pricing only be in affect during rush hour or will it be in affect on weekends too? E.g. Summer Saturdays.
All the time.

How are the profits split between the vendor and Virginia? Does the revenue stay in Northern Virginia?
Not answered in the proposals. (But really, what, are you kidding?)

Will the current HOV lanes be a toll road on Saturday, Sunday, holidays and week nights?
YES!

IE Will the current HOV lanes always be toll lanes outside of the HOV-3 free M-F hours?
YOU BET!

Will the current HOV lanes always (24/7) be a toll lane for single and double riders?
Yep! And motorcycles and large trucks will be prohibited.

What a great deal for us, huh?
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Bob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2005 at 5:39pm
And I have a couple of questions on it if anyone knows the answers

Once a car enters the HOT lane and it shows a toll, is that the toll he pays all the way until the end or until he exits? I'll bet 75 percent of the cars entering the HOT lane will do so around Dale City/Woodbridge. This is what I mean about dynamic tolling not going to work because everyone will be in the HOT lane with their rate already fixed.

If one enters the HOT at a high toll rate such as 1.00 per mile, can one then take the next exit and re-enter at a lower rate? I expect this would be true, but couldnt it cause a lot of exiting an re-entering?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SpongeBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2005 at 9:00am
No, Bob, dynamic tolling means from toll gantry to toll gantry. You will be charged a variable fee as you move through the system. You get on at Woodbridge and it is $1.00 per mile until you get near the Beltway, where another gantry begins charging you, say, $1.75 per mile. That rate lasts until you get to the Duke Street gantry where it jumps to $4.00 per mile from there to the river.

This is how they intend to manipulate the flow. The rate has to be adjusted in mid-flow to FORCE you OFF the lanes, creating space for those who can afford the rate. Sorry if you are too poor to pay the freight, but, as others on here have said, Get a Better Job!

(Schoolteachers, firemen, and social workers need not worry about the toll rates: they won't qualify for the Limo Lanes anyway.)
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commuter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote commuter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2005 at 5:08pm
Has anyone seen this about Transurban, one of the teams competing for the HOT lanes project? It shows how they paid the Australian government to get out of certain contract provisions. I wonder if they might try that here in Virginia?

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/02/20/1013132446302.html

City Link $10m bid on contract
By GABRIELLE COSTA and ANDREW HEASLEY
September 20 2001


The owner of Melbourne's City Link tollway will pay the Victorian Government $10 million in an unprecedented deal to secure a change in its contract with the state.

In return for the payment, the government will legislate to allow Transurban to develop and sell its automatic tolling technology interstate and overseas.

The legislation will remove legal restrictions that ban Transurban from activities other than building and operating City Link.

The government unsuccessfully sought lower tolls for motorists as part of the new arrangements, but had to settle for a $10million consideration, payable in three roughly equal portions over three years.

"We asked for some tolls to be lowered but that's a very expensive exercise to enter into," Transport Minister Peter Batchelor said. "It didn't match up in negotiations."

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Mr. Bill View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Bill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Oct 2005 at 12:01pm
I thought there may be some interest in this meeting so I am posting the information here.

[:D]Town Hall Meeting[:D]
When: October 25th, 7:30 pm
Where: Occoquan Town Hall
Guests include:
*Prince William County Police
*Scott Hirons, President, Committee to Save HOV
*Kim Hosen, Occoquan District Planning Commissioner
Topics of Discussion:
*Safety in Prince William County
[:(!]HOT Lanes
*Proposed Developments
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n/a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2005 at 1:29pm
SpongeBob, I hope you are wrong about the gate to gate HOT flow management system. It will cause backups in the HOT lanes from discharging traffic as it hits the slow traffic in non-HOT lanes.
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Bob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 2005 at 1:54pm
I am 70 percent sure that I saw a statement in one of the proposals at least that said that they were going to structure it so that once you got on the HOT lane, you kept the same per mile rate until you left it. The toll rate electronic signs would be at the HOT entrances. From a common sense perspective, if one were driving along in the HOT lane and could watch the rates change dynamically, that could create a mass panic to exit the lanes. Dont think they would do that.

Bob
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