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Disadvantages of slugging
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bnvus View Drop Down
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Joined: 15 Feb 2005
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bnvus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2005 at 11:58am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]OK, 1 driver so far has claimed that the express lanes during commuting hours only pass about 10 cars in a minute in the regular lanes. Doesn't quite match what I've seen, but I'm sure others have data that will support you.

Or not.

It's not the hybrids - it's the overall congestion. Thank goodness for the tolls so we can buy our way out. As Sponge has noted, tolls likely spell the end for slugs. I wonder if there will be any regrets about damning the exemption then?


Say that after you're paying an extra $40/day to drive your POS Hybrid on HOT. You're not going do away with slugging anytime soon.
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NoSUV View Drop Down
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Joined: 14 Jan 2005
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2005 at 2:13pm
bnvus - ah, yes -- but as Sponge has frequently noted, you'll be paying the same $40 in your POS SUV. Better buy something now that gets good mileage before the local market prices go up.
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lvalleburke View Drop Down
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Joined: 29 Aug 2003
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lvalleburke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2005 at 3:54pm
What was the assignment again?
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BillyBackSeat View Drop Down
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Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Location: Red State
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BillyBackSeat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2005 at 7:32pm
quote:
Originally posted by lvalleburke
[br]What was the assignment again?


Correct me if I'm wrong but what I've read is that carpools will be allowed on HOT for free. And the company that gets the contract will bust cheaters riding alone who get away with it now. If that is true, what it may do is give slugging a push. Maybe.

Hug a slug today
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SpongeBob View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 Oct 2004
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SpongeBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2005 at 9:29am
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but..."

OK. Sorry, but you're wrong. There is no way to verify 3 occupants in a vehicle except with the human eye. Fluor/Transurban's plan calls for only remote monitoring of traffic flow so they can set rates for each segment to reduce congestion.

How can the Smarttag gantry tell if you have 3 people or just 2 in your minivan? It can't.

So how can the Smarttag gantry not charge you? It can't.

And how can it charge you a different price? It can't.

In other words, because there is no technical means of determining the number of occupants in a vehicle, all vehicles in a multiple access/exit tolling system must be charged the same amount.

This is the heart of the problem.
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NoSUV View Drop Down
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Joined: 14 Jan 2005
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2005 at 10:51am
quote:
Originally posted by lvalleburke
[br]What was the assignment again?

Count how many cars in the regular lanes that you pass. A minute might be too hard since there are so many - perhaps 6,10, or 12 seconds.
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SpongeBob View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 Oct 2004
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SpongeBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2005 at 1:32pm
Here's a better assignment: count the people. And then count the number of cars in Horner Road lot as you pass it.

If people need to commute on I95 and are unwilling to rideshare, they get what they deserve. NoSUV can weep for their travails, but they have built their barn door and now have to sleep on it. (Do I have that right?)
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SuzAnne View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 May 2005
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuzAnne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2005 at 6:24pm
quote:
Originally posted by SpongeBob
[br]partial quote:

I think Defender and Baz are right.



I am glad to see someone pick up the stank of this topic. I would expect RLD to lead the charge but I believe the hospital has no patient-internet access.

Poor boy!
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BillyBackSeat View Drop Down
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Joined: 19 Aug 2005
Location: Red State
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BillyBackSeat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Nov 2005 at 11:58am
quote:
Originally posted by SpongeBob
[br]"Correct me if I'm wrong, but..."

OK. Sorry, but you're wrong. There is no way to verify 3 occupants in a vehicle except with the human eye. Fluor/Transurban's plan calls for only remote monitoring of traffic flow so they can set rates for each segment to reduce congestion.

How can the Smarttag gantry tell if you have 3 people or just 2 in your minivan? It can't.

So how can the Smarttag gantry not charge you? It can't.

And how can it charge you a different price? It can't.

In other words, because there is no technical means of determining the number of occupants in a vehicle, all vehicles in a multiple access/exit tolling system must be charged the same amount.

This is the heart of the problem.


If what you are saying is everyone pays including car pools then you are wrong because it would be political suicide for any governor or state assemblyman to piss off that many car pooling voters. Not going to happen.

Hug a slug today
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SpongeBob View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 Oct 2004
Location: VA
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Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SpongeBob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Nov 2005 at 2:11pm
BillyBS: it will not be political suicide if it "appears" to open up more lanes for all the non-carpoolers, and if the press says it is a good thing.

They can spin it very easily, especially considering how expensive the ride will be, to wit:

"Why should those carpoolers get a totally free ride? Don't they take advantage of a system they don't pay to maintain? It is not fair to me just because I work in Seven Corners (DelRay, Old Town, Georgetown, etc.) and cannot carpool that I have to pay $40 and they don't pay anything."

It is not a hard political nut to sell. People are mostly greedy and selfish.

(I forgot to add that sponges, on the other hand, are one of nature's most noble creatures: never greedy and never selfish. Hey, we just are, that's all. [8D])
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