Delegegates Betray Us - Extend Hybrids

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   Just for the record: I favor excluding ALL SOVs from the HOV lanes.

	Yes, that includes motorcycles.  The physics are somewhat altered, but they should act and be afforded the space of any other vehicle.

	NoSb

	SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

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N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Delegegates Betray Us - Extend Hybrids Posted: 31 Mar 2006 at 1:00pm
	Just for the record: I favor excluding ALL SOVs from the HOV lanes. Yes, that includes motorcycles. The physics are somewhat altered, but they should act and be afforded the space of any other vehicle. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 Mar 2006 at 12:04pm
	Bob - so it seems logical that you also favor excluding motorcycles from the express lanes during HOV hours. True?

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 Mar 2006 at 9:16am
	Wouldn't it be nice (sounds like the words to a song) if hybrids carried a total of 3 (or even better 4) people. That would equate to 150-200 mpg! Talk about a "clean" car...still not "clean", but definitely a step towards reducing much of the downside to fossil fuels. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

Bob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Dec 2001 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 Mar 2006 at 8:48am
	letter in Fredericksburg newspaper. Right ON! Once again the General Assembly has extended the law allowing hybrid vehicles to use HOV lanes regardless of the number of occupants [Legislators extend hybrid HOV break, but cut off car registration, March 12]. Hybrids are a great advancement, and I hope this trend of improving fuel economy and helping the environment continues. I just do not support hybrids being allowed in the HOV lanes. HOV lanes were developed to minimize commuter vehicles by promoting carpooling, while also improving fuel efficiency and reducing pollution. Allowing low-occupant hybrid vehicles in these lanes defeats the purpose of HOV lanes. Instead, it motivates individuals to be selfish and simply pay extra to avoid the hassle of carpooling (as HOT lanes would do)--hence the reason hybrids have more than doubled in the past 18 months. Nearly every hybrid in the HOV lanes is driver-only. Hybrid owners argue they should get this privilege because their vehicles get better fuel efficiency or are "clean." A driver-only hybrid may get 50 mpg, but the average nonhybrid vehicle gets about 30 mpg. Considering that nonhybrid vehicles transport three or more passengers, their real fuel efficiency is equivalent to 90 mpg. Also, while hybrids may run cleaner, the additional cars in HOV lanes are slowing all traffic and causing more pollution from nonhybrids. Allowing hybrids also represents discrimination against lower income people who cannot afford hybrids. The government already gives a $2,000 tax credit for hybrid owners that is benefit enough. One last hope is the Federal Highway Administration. Last year it threatened to take away highway funds if hybrids were not excluded from HOV lanes. If Virginia cannot act in the best interest of the majority of its citizens, maybe the FHA can do the right thing.

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 13 Mar 2006 at 7:37am
	IF I were to buy a hybrid, it would be a 'yota...definitely not a Ford. Honda's ok, just the hybrid there "feels cheap" compared to the Prius. imoo NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

Sparky Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 24 Feb 2006 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sparky Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 11 Mar 2006 at 8:21pm
	quote: Originally posted by N_or_S_bound [br]Sparky, You've used the CR reliability quote in a couple dif posts. Challenge is: there's insufficient data to indicate cost-effective life of the Prius. I agree to a point, Toyota makes a very reliable vehicle in almost every case. (They're not very forthright in admitting when they fail though) So, suggest you find a better data point to support EF of hybrids than current (e.g. new) limited data samples. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care! Nice point, but reliablity data is limited because the car has not been out that long. I plan to keep the car for 10 years, so I'll let you know.[:D] On the other hand, as you have pointed out, Toyota makes a very reliable vehicle.

N_or_S_bound Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote N_or_S_bound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Mar 2006 at 10:49am
	Sparky, You've used the CR reliability quote in a couple dif posts. Challenge is: there's insufficient data to indicate cost-effective life of the Prius. I agree to a point, Toyota makes a very reliable vehicle in almost every case. (They're not very forthright in admitting when they fail though) So, suggest you find a better data point to support EF of hybrids than current (e.g. new) limited data samples. NoSb SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

Bob Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Dec 2001 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Bob Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Mar 2006 at 8:21am
	Hybrid exemption details re Free Lance Star March 7 http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2006/032006/03072006/173405

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Mar 2006 at 12:50pm
	quote: Originally posted by Beckie5 [br]The voters HAVE voted. Unlike California, where elected representatives abdicate their responsibilities, we voted for people and empowered them to represent our opinions. I polled all of the candidates asking for my vote on the hybrid exemption and intended to use that as a criteria for my vote. It didn't help since every one of them supported extention. Mr. No SUV: It appears that our elected officials do not vote as they should and as representatives to us. They vote for what makes them popular and for what they feel peronally. What at one time took me 45 minutes to get from Stafford to the Pentagon in the morning is now taking 1 hour to 1 and a half hours with three in the car. There is NO WAY that 20 (single rider) Hybrids during my 1 hour plus ride to the Penatgon is saving that much fuel! If you would ride together or with others and leave your hybrids home the 20 cars would be limited to 6, and that is what really saves fuel! Beckie5, Um, how can you credibly say that? Believe it or not, polls consistently show that with the exception of a small minority, most people in the state favor the hybrid exemption. And, voting for what makes them popular is EXACTLY what they are supposed to do! Have you looked at the population statistics for your area? Has the number of commuters increased from your previous 45 min commute? Were you before going well above the speed limit and now forced to go at the speed limit? Why haven't YOU bought a CF vehicle? The answer I get from most is identical to the reason I only have 1 - they cost too much. Yet with the dual global problems of climate warming and dwindling fuel resources, too few of us are leaving a good legacy for future generations. An incentive to spend that extra money is obviously needed, not just for me, but for you - yes, Beckie, specifically you. Probably the best incentive for you to spend that money is if the only traffic allowed in the express lanes were buses and HOV hybrids. Next best is either conventional HOV (which does nothing to help with the major global problems when those vehicles are not being used for commuting) or SOV hybrids (which may be less efficient than some HOV conventional vehicles during commuting only, but are the clear choice when not being used for commuting). Neither has a clear advantage, unless you are a hybrid hating slug. Throw into the mix that express lanes are still far faster and more free flowing than the regular lanes during commuting hours, and SOV hybrids become not only politically expedient, but a better choice than conventional vehicles only being HOV during the hours of commuting.

Beckie5 Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 07 Jan 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Beckie5 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Mar 2006 at 4:13pm
	The voters HAVE voted. Unlike California, where elected representatives abdicate their responsibilities, we voted for people and empowered them to represent our opinions. I polled all of the candidates asking for my vote on the hybrid exemption and intended to use that as a criteria for my vote. It didn't help since every one of them supported extention. Mr. No SUV: It appears that our elected officials do not vote as they should and as representatives to us. They vote for what makes them popular and for what they feel peronally. What at one time took me 45 minutes to get from Stafford to the Pentagon in the morning is now taking 1 hour to 1 and a half hours with three in the car. There is NO WAY that 20 (single rider) Hybrids during my 1 hour plus ride to the Penatgon is saving that much fuel! If you would ride together or with others and leave your hybrids home the 20 cars would be limited to 6, and that is what really saves fuel!