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mdog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2008 at 11:33pm
NoSUV, no it's you who's refusing to face the facts: hybrids are not 5x more efficient than comparable cars. Even more, hybrids efficiency is a function of diminishing returns, and the bigger/heavier the hybrid, the less it's advantage with a comparable non-hybrid car. Good example - Lexus LS. Stop comparing your Prius to a Hammer. Compare it with Focus, Chevy Cobalt, Nissan Versa. Compare their mileage @ 60-70 MPG. The real one, not 'EPA estimate'. A Cobalt with 3 occupants does at least twice smaller damage to the environment than 3 hybrids. Plain and simple.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2008 at 4:35pm
quote:
Originally posted by mdog

NoSUV, no it's you who's refusing to face the facts: hybrids are not 5x more efficient than comparable cars. Even more, hybrids efficiency is a function of diminishing returns, and the bigger/heavier the hybrid, the less it's advantage with a comparable non-hybrid car. Good example - Lexus LS. Stop comparing your Prius to a Hammer. Compare it with Focus, Chevy Cobalt, Nissan Versa. Compare their mileage @ 60-70 MPG. The real one, not 'EPA estimate'. A Cobalt with 3 occupants does at least twice smaller damage to the environment than 3 hybrids. Plain and simple.



mdog - as usual, you are wrong. I used The Washington Post for my source. What did you use?

It's not about the MPG, but the emissions. A Cobalt is far, far worse than 3 hybrids with it's emissions - it needs to be HOV-5 to keep up with one!

It's just a nice benefit that the hybrid ALSO gets great mileage.

Please, mdog, find some reputable source for your spoutings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2008 at 4:48pm
Stop embarassing yourself. Just stop. Go to the DOE site and check the auto data:

Carbon Footprint
Prius - 4.1 tonns
Focus - 5.6 tonns
Cobalt - 5.9 tonns

And just to prove the diminishing returns:
Lexus LS 460 - 7.7 tonns
Lexus LS 600h - 8.3 (!) tonns - more than non-hybrid version

And so you understand the validity of the WP writers:
Hammer H3 - 11.4 (which is less than 3 times more than Prius)

If you want me to embarass you more, keep quoting WP and other "papers". We'll all laugh.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2008 at 7:37am
mdog,

Please enlighten all of us with which of those vehicles qualified for Clean Special Fuel plates by VDOT.

Now, let's review the REAL statistics:

NOx (that's nitrogen oxide) in grams/mile:
Light duty hybrid: .02
Passenger car: .10
Light duty truck 2: .30 (like Jeep Cherokee, Dodge Caravan)
Light duty truck 4: .60 (like Ford F-150, Land Rover)
Heavy duty truck: .90 (like Hummer)

Now, perhaps you can do the simple math and try to divide .9 by .02 and let us know if you come up with a different number than 45.

Keep trying mdog - you just embarrass yourself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2008 at 11:46am
And the source of these numbers is - let me guess - washington post? good job! Take that, Government agencies!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jul 2008 at 4:47pm
And where do you suppose they got it from?

Or are you one of those wing nuts who believes that all of the statistics in the Post are made up?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MDC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2008 at 3:54pm
Here's an article on air pollution and includes a discussion on N2O NO and NO2. Since we are discussing NOx and not nitrous oxide, please try to focus on that part of the article.

"Nitrogen dioxide is generally not considered a pollutant because it is not toxic and usually not produced by humans." That's NO2

"no evidence of NO damage has ever been seen outside the laboratory."

http://www.umich.edu/~gs265/society/pollution.htm

And, FYI, my 1991 Acura Integra had it's emissions tested several times and the result was .01 for NOx.

Why you bring up NOx when someone else discusses CO2 levels from Hybrids and non-hybrids is beyond me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jul 2008 at 9:36am
The article I have from WP 6/24/07 page C2 says that "[Nitrogen Oxide] combne[s] with hydrocarbons to form ground-level ozone."

The article also reports on Code Orange, Red and Purple days, and states "The main concerns in the Washington area are levels of fine particles and ozone. In summer ozone is the main concern." And later "Care emissions account for a little more than a third of ozone."

It discusses the 3 factors that determine how much vehicles pollute:
- type/weight
- age
- speed

Finally,
"In Virginia, solo hybrid drivers are allwoed to use HOV lanes, a perk that annoys many carpoolers who think hybrids clog the lanes and defeat one of the primary purposes of carpooling: getting more people in fewer cars to cut down on pollution. Three people in one car is better than three people in three hybrids, they reason. They may be right as far as congestion goes, but not on air quality."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n/a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2008 at 3:24pm
Yes, and 3 people in ONE hybrid is better still! Fill up those empty seats NoSUV! Until you do, you will just be another SOV snob, even worse a hybrid-driving, self-righteous SOV snob.

Which brings up a good point: if you don't carpool or slug, why are you cloging up the "slug-lines" forum with your anti-slugging propiganda?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2008 at 4:22pm
quote:
Originally posted by raymond

Yes, and 3 people in ONE hybrid is better still! Fill up those empty seats NoSUV! Until you do, you will just be another SOV snob, even worse a hybrid-driving, self-righteous SOV snob.

Which brings up a good point: if you don't carpool or slug, why are you cloging up the "slug-lines" forum with your anti-slugging propiganda?


raymond, even better - why don't YOU buy a hybrid and drive? Until then, you will just be another slug snob, even worse, a non-environmental, gas guzzling, self-righteous, freeloading slug snob.
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