Costly Motorcycles |
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MDC
New Slug Joined: 04 Dec 2002 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freewaymgmt/hov/hovqalst.htm#15
The answer to why motorcycles are allowed in HOV. |
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rodmunera
New Slug Joined: 04 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Wow! had no idea.
You live, you learn. Thanks MDC! |
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SpongeBob
New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Whatever motorcycle you buy, make sure you have it paid off in a year or so, or that you like riding it only for recreational use because motorcycles are banned from the HOT lanes under Fluor's proposal.
As are the semis. So we will be pushing the big rigs and the cycles into the same overcrowded lanes, allowing the limos and the Lexi to fly by on the asphalt your tax dollars laid. Truth, fellas. Like it or not. |
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rodmunera
New Slug Joined: 04 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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I think it's unlikely that a proposal where motorcycles are excluded from HOT will be passed without changes, not only because of the safety issue but also If you pay the toll then you should be able to ride.
whoooooooooooooooo lives in a pineapple under the sea? [:)] |
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SpongeBob
New Slug Joined: 06 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Doesn't matter what you "think". Some of us have been fighting this war long enough to know, without question, that what makes "sense" has nothing to do with what actually happens.
The motorcycles and the semis are specifically banned from using the toll road. End of story. Motorcycle license plates are too small to be photographed by the violation cameras and therefore they will not be allowed on the lanes. End of story. But really, safety? SAFETY? What, are you some kind of... dope? Do you think SAFETY has a dang thing to do with the state's evaluation of the toll roads? (hold on while I have an uncontrollable laughing fit) To name only one instance where SAFETY intersects the toll roads... the shoulders of the HOT lanes will be two feet on one side and nine feet on the other. Where, exactly, will the police stand if they pull you over for speeding? Where will you be able to change a tire? My car is seven feet wide; how could I even open my door and exit my vehicle without being in the way of 55MPH vehicles? Oh, and the technical phrase used in the proposal for the new 11'-wide lanes is "substandard width." Do you really want to be on a motorcycle in a three-lane, high-speed, thrill ride on narrow lanes with almost no escape options? You better open your eyes, boy, cause the State done got no regard whatsoever for your safety when they's an opportunity to let some company make a buck off you. |
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Harleyandslug
New Slug Joined: 02 May 2006 Location: va Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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I must beg for forgiveness at the onset of this question. After all, you so authoritatively stated that that “The motorcycles and the semis are specifically banned from using the toll road. End of story. Motorcycle license plates are too small to be photographed by the violation cameras and therefore they will not be allowed on the lanes. End of story.” Here the story is over and I have the audacity to ask questions. Please forgive me for such ignorance.
However, I have read the proposal and I see that on page 2-16 it states, “no significant commercial truck traffic will be permitted to use the BRT/HOT lanes”. I could find no reference to motorcycles within the entire proposal. Additionally, I have scoured the notes from public meetings and found no such reference. Although, I did find numerous comments about people not liking motorcycles in the HOV lanes in the first place. I have even gone one step further with technology and goggled this subject. I did learn that Washington State has HOT lanes and motorcycles do not have to pay. Your threads do come up as the only “authority” stating that motorcycles will be prohibited. If I use your logic, are motorcycles banned from I-95 through Baltimore and Delaware? The license plate is the same size there also? Please, provide a reference to allow us to address the issue. It is a subject that I find important and will address it. But I can’t reference this message board, which is the only place it appears. It is important for me to speak from a position of knowledge and not a position of ignorance. Perhaps you would do well to adopt such a policy also! |
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CallmeMrSlug
New Slug Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2464
This is a link to some comments from other sluggers on the motorcycle issue under HOT. The VDOT page is down today so I could not read the fluor proposal to get the exact langauge. I am not sure anyone really knows their intent as far as motorcycles. However, if you look at the powerpoint presentation fluor made to the southern regional transporation conference, linked on the July 7 entry by Sponge in the HOT lanes discussion forum, conspicuously absent is any listing that motorcycles will continue to ride free. I also don't know how one could put a transponder on a motorcycle although I guess that it would be possible. |
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CallmeMrSlug
New Slug Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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http://www.dot.state.ga.us/stfc/presentations.shtml
Is the powerpoint presentation by Fluor I referred to above. Again, if motorcycles were going to be exempted from the toll, one would think they would explicitly state that in the presentation... |
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CallmeMrSlug
New Slug Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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http://www.beltwayhotlanes.com/pdfs/Fluor_HOT_Lanes_Proposal.pdf
This is the link to the Fluor proposal. If you look at Appendix D, Air quality analsis, you will see a comparison of the capital beltway proposal to other existing HOT lanes. You should especially note the while California I-91 specifically says motorcycles get free use of the toll road, there is no such statement in the Capital Beltway comparison meaning motorcycles pay the toll. Now I know that this comparison does not apply to the I-95/395 proposal, but there seems no reason to believe they intend to exempt motorcycles from the toll from that proposal either. |
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CallmeMrSlug
New Slug Joined: 21 Mar 2005 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Ok, one last thing...the word motorcycle does not appear in the I-95/395 proposal which I have linked below. But you will note that it does not say motorcycles will ride for free, unlike HOV3, buses and emergency vehicles. In fact, a literal reading would be that motorcycles would not be allowed on the toll road at all...
http://www.gobrt.org/VirginiaI95and395proposal.pdf#search='fluor%20hot%20lane' I-95/395 BRT/HOT Lanes Electronic Tolling System The BRT/HOT Lanes will be provided for cars, buses and emergency vehicles only. No significant commercial truck traffic will be permitted to use the BRT/HOT Lanes. HOT Lane operation will be reversible as is the case with the current HOV lanes. Toll rates will be variable based on the time of day and congestion levels. All vehicles using the BRT/HOT Lanes would be required to have a Smart Tag/E-ZPass account. Tolling will be based on the vehicle classification below: • SOV/HOV (2) – Variable Rate Toll • HOV (3+) – Free • Buses – Free • Emergency Vehicles – Free The electronic tolling system design will be IAGcompliant and utilize the Mark IV transponder and lane equipment. The toll system will include both a violation enforcement system and a violation processing system. Violation processing will be managed at a regional administrative processing center. This center could provide customer service and violation processing for both the proposed Capital Beltway HOT Lanes and the I-95/395 BRT/ HOT Lanes System and could be leveraged to consolidate any existing or future area toll operations. The Fluor team believes that a regional approach would provide the greatest benefit to VDOT by providing the lowest cost operation and a unified and centralized approach to customer service. The Fluor Team’s Electronic Tolling System provides: • Open Road Tolling • Managed Traffic • Smart Tag/E-ZPass Compatibility • Regional System Approach • Free Access for HOV 3+, Buses, Emergency Vehicles Transurban will be responsible for the definition and delivery of an electronic toll collection system. Fluor recommends that they also, under contract to VDOT, be responsible for the operation of the BRT/HOT Lanes. Transurban’s experience as the developer and operator of the Melbourne CityLink system and current developer and future operator of Western Sydney Beltway M7 project will ensure VDOT that the system will be delivered and operated in an efficient and cost-effective manner. Transurban to Provide: • Definition and Delivery of Systems • Management of Operations Enforcement A violation enforcement system will be a key component of the BRT/HOT Lanes electronic tolling project. Effective enforcement is important to the Financial Plan of the project. As with any open-road toll I-95/395 BRT/HOT Lanes System 2-16 AV20040042-035 -- 2.a.doc 2.a project description system, motorists will try to use the BRT/HOT Lanes without paying. It is critical that violations be identified, the tolls collected and violators converted into paying customers. |
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