SOV countdown

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   Scott, while your conviction to argue with the likes of NoSUV is admirable, it's futile. Although (to my recollection) no one on this forum has ever supported these assertions, NoSUV won't be happy until everyone agrees with the insane statements that NoSUV tries to pass of as fact. Actually NoSUV may never be happy, and will certainly never concede, so what's the use debating it. 

	As I have said before, many of NoSUV's arguments are, by definition, radical; simple proposed solution to a complex problem, and most are clearly insane. At the least, these claims are certainly unrealistic, and as someone who has spent the past few years debating with the nuts, I have abandoned the nut house! Let it burn! 

	Most of the participants in this forum understand that real, acheivable, positive steps toward a solution include those that are easily implementable (in real world situations), and require little adaptation by those affected. 

	Carpooling solves many, many problems. "Hey, I'm going into DC anyway. Why not pick up a few slugs and ride in the express lanes. I get a fast ride, they get a fast ride, everyone's happy!" And guess what, the environment benefits, traffic congestion is eased, fossil fuel demands are reduced, etc. Small changes = big results! I'd even support HOV-4. Why do hybrid drivers demand special treatment when they are not a substitute for common sense real solutions?!

	Force feeding SOV hybrids solves no problems. "Hey, I'm going to spend $25,000. on a car anyway, why not spend $30,000. instead?!" Sorry, that is a tough pill to swallow. Its not realistic to assume the general public can stomach the extra $$. We can't afford it, nor can most people justify the argument that they can spend their way out of our eco/traffic/fuel problems. We're too smart to fall for the hype.

	And while were at it NoSUV, let's mandate masss transit. "Sure, I'll give up my nice clean, reliable, convenient, comfortable car ride for a standing-room-only spot on a dirty, crowded, smelly, expensive bus or metro train." How bonehead is this assumption? Well, in NoSUV's world its already the only feasible solution. How about mandating "bicycle only" lanes for commuting? It's about as realistic as your "HOV 40" proposal.

	Like I said, the nuts can have the nut house! Its fantasy land. I live in the real world!

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n/a Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote n/a Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jan 2007 at 3:31pm
	Scott, while your conviction to argue with the likes of NoSUV is admirable, it's futile. Although (to my recollection) no one on this forum has ever supported these assertions, NoSUV won't be happy until everyone agrees with the insane statements that NoSUV tries to pass of as fact. Actually NoSUV may never be happy, and will certainly never concede, so what's the use debating it. As I have said before, many of NoSUV's arguments are, by definition, radical; simple proposed solution to a complex problem, and most are clearly insane. At the least, these claims are certainly unrealistic, and as someone who has spent the past few years debating with the nuts, I have abandoned the nut house! Let it burn! Most of the participants in this forum understand that real, acheivable, positive steps toward a solution include those that are easily implementable (in real world situations), and require little adaptation by those affected. Carpooling solves many, many problems. "Hey, I'm going into DC anyway. Why not pick up a few slugs and ride in the express lanes. I get a fast ride, they get a fast ride, everyone's happy!" And guess what, the environment benefits, traffic congestion is eased, fossil fuel demands are reduced, etc. Small changes = big results! I'd even support HOV-4. Why do hybrid drivers demand special treatment when they are not a substitute for common sense real solutions?! Force feeding SOV hybrids solves no problems. "Hey, I'm going to spend $25,000. on a car anyway, why not spend $30,000. instead?!" Sorry, that is a tough pill to swallow. Its not realistic to assume the general public can stomach the extra $$. We can't afford it, nor can most people justify the argument that they can spend their way out of our eco/traffic/fuel problems. We're too smart to fall for the hype. And while were at it NoSUV, let's mandate masss transit. "Sure, I'll give up my nice clean, reliable, convenient, comfortable car ride for a standing-room-only spot on a dirty, crowded, smelly, expensive bus or metro train." How bonehead is this assumption? Well, in NoSUV's world its already the only feasible solution. How about mandating "bicycle only" lanes for commuting? It's about as realistic as your "HOV 40" proposal. Like I said, the nuts can have the nut house! Its fantasy land. I live in the real world!

scottt Members Profile Find Members Posts Senior Slug Joined: 12 May 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 106	Post Options Post Reply Quote scottt Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Jan 2007 at 4:09pm
	quote: Originally posted by NoSUV [br] quote: Originally posted by scottt [br]NoSUV, I still don't see you coughing up the extra money for those of us to buy Hybrids. If a Hybrid vs a non-Hybrid were the same price, then fine, you can gripe. But until then, please go away. Indeed, you represent some of the worst qualities of the human race. You make far more than is necessary to have that "extra" money, but you have made personal choices with how you want to spend that money. Everytime you are faced with choosing between instant gratification and altruistic benefits, you put your funds into the "me first" category and then whine that you have insufficient money for anything else. I've posed the question and gotten the predictable response - if the ONLY vehicles permitted in the express lanes were mass transit and SULEV, would you then have the "extra" money to buy a hybrid? Please tell me the last "instant gratification and altruistic benefits" that came my way. There are lots of SULEV's that aren't Hybrids. Why do you keep interchanging the two?

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Jan 2007 at 9:08am
	Again - what does your delegate say? Do you have the courage to both ask and to post the response?

MDC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 04 Dec 2002 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote MDC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2007 at 11:28pm
	That's right. Enjoy your drives on I-66 come July.

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2007 at 4:07pm
	There will be toll roads before the grandfathered hybrid exemption ends. Don't take my word for it - ask your delegate!

darkprime Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 05 Jul 2006 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote darkprime Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2007 at 3:32pm
	I purchased a 2001 vehicle in late 2002 - just before I graduated college. No way was I going to be able to come up with the funds for a new (or even used at the time) hybrid. In this case, the cost difference was astronomical. Not everyone is as wealthy as you are NoSUV. Anyways, back on topic, another month down before hopefully SOV-Hybrids get out of HOV or become HOV-Hybrids.

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2007 at 12:52pm
	quote: Originally posted by darkprime [br]Stop saying that no slug will pay for a ride. Remember that this site has both riders and drivers. I myself have paid and taken mass transit when I could and when it made sense to. Are you saying that drivers are slugs when they are driving? that's a new one! When was the last time you heard of a slug paying a driver for a ride?

NoSUV Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote NoSUV Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2007 at 12:50pm
	bnvus - the solution is in 2 parts: - to get the people from slug lines into mass transit. HOV-40 vs HOV-3 - to get consumers to choose a SULEV over a conventional vehicle when making an automobile purshase. Do you know anyone who has a 2001 vehicle or newer and it's not a SULEV? If so, ask them why they didn't get a SULEV. If the answer is unproven technology, that answer has been proven to be bunk. If the answer is that a SULEV is more expensive that a conventional vehicle, ask what it would take other than for the cost to be equivalent for them to have considered a SULEV. I'm against raising taxes (which is the effect of a subsidy) for people to purchase environmentally sound choices, yet some incentive other than contribution to global warming must be pursued - otherwise, every vehicle sold this year would have been a SULEV. Too many people are short sighted and want to know what's in it for them today (note the national saving rate) instead of looking at what they are doing to the environment. After all, who really cares that the polar ice caps are receeding, that the foliage is changing to that usually closer to the equator, or that weather patterns are changing. Nope, all that is important is getting a better bargain on a gas guzzling higher polluting vehicle, and blaming the problem on someone else.

darkprime Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 05 Jul 2006 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote darkprime Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2007 at 12:48pm
	Stop saying that no slug will pay for a ride. Remember that this site has both riders and drivers. I myself have paid and taken mass transit when I could and when it made sense to.

bnvus Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote bnvus Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Jan 2007 at 12:36pm
	I don't get it NoSUV. You are all for global warming and mass transit, yet you still feel that Hybrid SOV's in carpool lanes should be allowed. And what exactly are HOT lanes going to fix? More money....to fix this broken transportation system? HaHaHa...all you are accomplishing with this is giving ANYONE the opportunity to drive into the city at will. After all, what is a few more bucks a week to drive in as a SOV. Not to mention lining the pockets of the contractors building the highway. Yeah that is going to fix a lot. I can see your blinders are working overtime. You are not posting any logical suggestions as to how to compromise the situation between HOV and SOV. Lets fix the system, not contibute to the problem.