Why is it "Hybrids vs Slugs"?

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Originally posted by MT
[br] Bottom line is I certainly think a superb mass transit system that could meet everyone's needs would be best (we'll never have one), everyone driving an efficient type of hybrid and carrying max passengers would be next (won't see that until (most) people believe it is better for them personally), and after that is at least having people ride sharing in any type of vehicle they drive.

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MT, I agree with the first 2 - mass transit and hybrid car pool - in the pecking order, but I think the next best is hybrid SOV, then conventional car pool, then conventional SOV.

I'm positive that future archeologists will examine the DC region as a pocket in which evolution passed by because of a failure to adapt and change with changing conditions. We have a significant increase in polution in the area, more Code Orange days, and changes in the eco-system - -all of which folks in the region ignore using the mantra, "slugging is great".

MT, how many people at your location slug to the Pentagon? Is it enough to fill a bus or two? Using supply and demand logic, there won't be the demand for a bus if the commuters in the commuter lot won't pay for the ride when they can slug for free - adding at least 13 vehicles to the road per bus. Anyone who picks up slugs directly contributes to this supply-demand situation, making mass transit look unattractive and contributing to the congestion caused by slugs not using mass transit.

I've contacted others who were using SOV to commute and offered to carpool with them - in fact, I had one going for 3 months until a contract change was experieced followed by a change in work location. I continue to cast the net, having contacted someone yesterday, and another last month. In both cases, trying to ease some of the regular lane congestion - never a slug.

Incidentally, I recommended to Bob that an alliance be formed to battle HOT (see the thread under that discussion area and "Seeking allies..."). Slugs then as well as now see hybrids as the enemy, and if they are fighting me, I fight back.

MT - I was waiting for you to reveal your bias. Look, every slug COULD have bought a hybrid by now and continued to slug, but NONE have! Why is that? It's not economics. The slugs have saved more than enough in commuting costs to pay the cost differential (the math is simple: try 3 gal/day for the Potomic Mills - Pentagon trip). I have a hybrid and have used mass transit for 10% of the summer (I used Metro yesterday). I do FAR more than the slugs.

The Post last month said that regular vehicles needed to be HOV-5 to equal the emissions of a hybrid, and that was for a compact. It was HOV-15 for most SUVs. What have YOU seen in the express lanes? Only mass transit carries so much.

MT, I firmly believe that the slugging system has contributed significantly to the region having the 2nd worst commute, even though its population is 8th. Why? No other region uses the system, and they have far better commutes. It isn't geography - the regions with the higher population and better commute have their own geographical constraints. Having people in a commuter lot all going the same direction is ideal for mass transit, which is exactly what those other communities do - and there is no one on this board who has ever proven that HOV-45 is worse than HOV-3.

MT, what is your solution to providing a non-taxpayer funded incentive for people to buy hybrids and better the environment? Do you think it is the slug system? Until the commuter lots are filled with hybrids, I don't agree.

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Originally posted by Oosik
[br]Because my 1978 2500 series Suburban is doing just fine. I can't afford paying $700-800 a month in car fees, plus banking extra to replace the battery and also paying for the gas. Even at $3.00 a gallon my ole 'burban costs under $150 a month. While it does burn a bit of oil, I just borrow old oil from my friends - which works great. Again, the smoky exhaust really does keep those pesky hybrid owners away from me.

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Oosik - not true. How many years have you been a slug? Where do you slug from?

MT - Very interesting bias. Why didn't you ask the slugs who post here why they haven't purchased a hybrid?

I’ve only been slugging here for 7 years and have a pretty easy commute from Springfield to the Pentagon. To be clear, I don’t own a hybrid, but I do think they are great for the environment and I may well buy one in the future. On this forum one topic that certainly seems to generate a lot of spirited discussion is hybrids (see Bumper Sticker thread). Some exchanges, often those with NoSUV, seem to end up with members trading insults – that makes little sense to me. Slugs and hybrids both help with a problem.

I believe that with traffic we are basically trying to address two main issues; environmental concerns and congestion - this is the “problem set.” Both impact “quality of life” for all of us.

I think everyone would agree that mass transit has the potential to do the most toward alleviating these issues. Not everyone can utilize mass transit; not enough capacity, limited destinations served, limited operating hours, etc.

That being the case, my first observation is that hybrid users, slugs and drivers who pick up slugs are all making their own small individual contribution toward reducing pollution – this is good. I’m sure many of you saw recent press articles showing that, basically, hybrids pollute less than regular vehicles, even if those regular vehicles have a large number of passengers. OK, guess some folks view that as the hybrid driver getting more “points” in this area. To me, everyone is helping out, it’s not who gets the most “points.”

Slugs and drivers who pick up slugs also contribute to reducing congestion. If the hybrid user picks up slugs they do as well, if they drive solo, they don’t and are only helping with 50% of the problem set. Again, to me, anyone who is contributing to taking vehicles off the road (any vehicle) is doing a good thing. If you’re not, that is an area you could contribute more.

The animosity seems to boil down to two issues; your motive for doing what you do (slugging, driving slugs, using a hybrid), and how “big” your contribution is toward solving the problem set.

I’m guessing most drivers pick up slugs so they can reduce their commute time and most slugs look to reduce their commute time, save money and reduce wear and tear on their vehicle. Some believe these are “selfish” reasons and these people should get little/no “credit” for helping solve the problem set. If those same slugs/drivers are also doing it for “environmental” reasons I assume they might get slightly more “credit” for their actions. To some, the only “pure” motive is reserved for those who drive a hybrid to help save the environment. To me, your rationale for doing what you do is really irrelevant, the fact you are doing something is a good thing. Neither motive makes you a “better” person.

Your “contribution” breaks out into pollution and congestion impacts. I already mentioned above that, based on the typical vehicle/passenger configurations we are talking about with slugging, hybrids are clearly polluting less than regular vehicles – good on ‘em. No matter what vehicle you are driving, the more passengers you carry, the more vehicles you are taking off the road the more impact you have in this area - pretty simple.

I’d offer up another item to consider - what, if any, personal sacrifices you make to do what you do. Both drivers and slugs give up complete control over their commuting schedule - a big thing for many people. The driver who picks up slugs goes out of their way to the commuter lot/slug line, may have to pick up strangers, may listen to passengers blather on their cell phone, may get folks whose odor offends them, etc. Slugs have to stand in line in all manner of wx, maybe ride with drivers whose driving skills do not meet their standards, listen to radio stations they don’t care for, ride in vehicles in poor condition, etc. While these are all pretty minor inconveniences, the point is that these folks are making personal sacrifices of varying magnitudes. Of course many slugging experiences are good ones also - you can make friends, find a job, get useful tips on various subjects, etc.

So, I see all these people making positive contributions, of varying degrees, to the traffic problem, for whatever reason – that is good. What I don’t understand is the extreme “holier than thou” attitude of some folks on this issue - NoSUV in particular. I don’t understand the animosity of statements about “free loading slugs” such as their “selfish desire to avoid paying for commutes”, “you need to get on the bus” until you see all hybrids in your commuter lot, “privileged status” on HOV vs single occupancy hybrids, “are you willing to make the sacrifices to make the world a better place”, “even though you are doing very little, you are doing something”, “why aren’t you doing more”, “if everyone … used a hybrid that would show selflessness”, etc. Wow!! If everyone followed your exalted lead, purchased a hybrid, and drove solo on their commute, it would help the pollution aspect, but would that really help the congestion problem – no.

I’d like to ask NoSUV in particular, you say that “some convenience must be sacrificed” - what personal sacrifices are you making for the environment by driving your hybrid? By all appearances it seems your environmental zeal is at least partially influenced by a desire to avoid any personal sacrifices, unless buying a hybrid itself qualifies for some reason. Little use of public transit, no picking up slugs, no standing in line for a ride – just get in your car and go when you want, using the HOV lanes for a quicker commute. Even you can’t argue that 3-4 people in a hybrid is better than one, so why don’t you make that small personal sacrifice? How far does your environmental zeal to lower the carbon footprint extend beyond the hybrid purchase – a robust home recycling program, all Energy Star appliances in the home, drinking tap vs bottled water, all compact fluorescent bulbs in the home vs incandescent, etc?

At any rate, NoSUV’s animosity against slugs is beyond me when everyone in this group is contributing to the traffic problem. NoSUV, I’d like to extend an invitation for you to get down of that (very!) high horse you’re on, take a good look in that mirror you’re so fond of referring to, and join the rest of us mere mortals in the commuting world who are trying to get along with each other while making a small contribution to improving the traffic situation.