Taurus LX with Clean Fuel Plates in HOV

I have seen hybrids without CF tags pulled over and given tickets. Owners have to wait 3 or 4 weeks for CF tags since they are now distributed from Richmond office.

USA, is the bi-fuel vehicle the same as the hybrid and where do these people buy clean fuel? I have never seen a clean fuel station except outside Navy Annex and thats only for Gov vehicles I think.

So please forgive my ignorance but that means the bi-fuel cars are not the same as the Hybrids we see on the HOV?

Bi-fuel vehicles and hybrids are not the same thing; the issue is entirely separate.

A hybrid runs on regular gasoline that you can buy at any ordinary filling station; it also has an electric motor that works in tandem with the regular internal combustion engine. How this happens varies depending on the car--Toyota's system is quite different from Honda's and I don't appreciate all the nuances. By "regular" I just mean normal gasoline regardless of grade--I don't mean "regular" 87-octane. The key thing on the hybrid for purposes of this particular discussion is that, except for occasional very short trips in a Toyota Prius, the car cannot run on electricity alone--it requires normal gasoline. (The Prius is capable of running for very brief periods on electricity alone, a feature typically used in stop-and-roll traffic. Honda's hybrids don't do this, I believe.)

A vehicle need not be a hybrid to get a CF license plate and the HOV exemption. Vehicles running on compressed natural gas are eligible, for example; I have two colleagues who have such vehicles (one has a car, one a minivan). Propane-powered vehicles are also eligible. Electric cars probably would be too, but I've never seen one. Hydrogen-powered cars will presumably qualify once they become more widespread. (Mazda has produced a hydrogen-powered RX-8 and is testing it in Japan.)

A bi-fuel vehicle is a vehicle that can run on one of the alternative fuels, such as CNG or propane, as well as on regular gasoline. This would be a real benefit for things like long-term travel since you can't find CNG filling stations outside of major metropolitan areas. A bi-fuel vehicle of this sort is NOT eligible for the clean fuel license plate, because the regulations require that to get the CF plate the vehicle must run EXCLUSIVELY on the alternative fuel. Some DMV workers weren't enforcing this rigorously, I hear, and that's why CF plates now come from Richmond. If bi-fuels could get CF tags, it would be a bonanza for getting around HOV--you'd simply spend a few thousand dollars to bi-fuel your vehicle and then never use the clean fuel capability.

As far as clean fuel filling stations go, I know there is a CNG filling station owned by Washington Gas on Industrial Drive in Springfield. There's another somewhere off the Prince William Parkway. I know there are a few others around, but I don't know where. For people who have natural gas heating at home, Washington Gas will allow them to tap into the gas line to install a car-filling facility in the garage! Then you just top off in the morning before leaving for work. This strikes me as just a little bit unsafe!

Hope this clarifies it.

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Originally posted by Juli
[br]USA, is the bi-fuel vehicle the same as the hybrid and where do these people buy clean fuel? I have never seen a clean fuel station except outside Navy Annex and thats only for Gov vehicles I think.

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quote:

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Originally posted by USA
[br]

A vehicle need not be a hybrid to get a CF license plate and the HOV exemption. Vehicles running on compressed natural gas are eligible, for example; I have two colleagues who have such vehicles (one has a car, one a minivan). Propane-powered vehicles are also eligible. Electric cars probably would be too, but I've never seen one. Hydrogen-powered cars will presumably qualify once they become more widespread. (Mazda has produced a hydrogen-powered RX-8 and is testing it in Japan.)

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It's funny that because of Virginia's dumb clean fuel laws people think of hybrids when people mention clean fuel cars. Under federal law the only cars that are considered clean fuel and are eligible to get the HOV exemption are ILEV rated vehicles. What's an ILEV you ask? An inherently low emission vehicle, of which no gasoline powered cars (including hybrids) qualify as. CNG cars are ILEV. Hell, the civic hybrid and the Insight are only rated ULEV here. Go ahead and check Honda's website and read the fine print(http://www.hondacars.com/images/banners/2004/civic_hybrid/civic_hybrid_factsheet.pdf). Do you know how many other vehicles are ULEV? I have friend that just bought a Mercedes SUV that is ULEV! I think any Honda Accord since the mid 90s is ULEV. I'm glad everyone has fallen for Toyota's and Honda's marketing crap.

Has anyone ever read the Virginia definition of clean special fuel vehicle? Here it is:

§ 46.2-749.3. Special license plates for clean special fuel vehicles.
As used in this section, "clean special fuel" means any product or energy source used to propel a highway vehicle, the use of which, compared to conventional gasoline or reformulated gasoline, results in lower emissions of oxides of nitrogen, volatile organic compounds, carbon monoxide or particulates or any combination thereof.

This definition is so broad that if someone wanted to pick a fight with the DMV they could get their diesel cars registered as clean special fuel since diesels have lower VOCs and CO.

It is such a waste that Virginia lawmakers have turned a good incentive for truly clean vehicles and made it into a huge scam that helps Toyota and Honda sell cars. Why should people make the effort and get a clean CNG car when all they have to do is buy a dirtier hybrid and clog up the HOV lanes? Anyone?