Why not HOV-4

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   I-66 inside the Beltway was originally HOV-4 when it opened just before Christmas in 1982, but NOBODY used it during rush hour for the reasons some folks have noted here about it being too hard to maintain a four-person carpool (slugging never took off out that way and was nascent on I-95 as well back then).  It was changed to HOV-3 fairly quickly, I think by early 1984 although I cannot recall when.  (I remember the picture of the HOV-3 sign in the Post with a tagline saying "A Sign the Rules Are Easing.")  The road was still underutilized and in March 1995 they changed it to HOV-2, which still works pretty well on I-66 in my experience (talking only the inside-the-Beltway part....the left HOV lane outside the Beltway isn't so good).

	The history of HOV on Shirley Highway (I-95/395) is different.  The idea for the express lanes first surfaced in 1964; they were completed from Springfield to downtown DC in 1971 (although the northern end took a bit longer to be opened fully because the Pentagon "Mixing Bowl" interchange was being rebuilt).  At the time these lanes were solely for buses, but this was a waste of money, so in late 1973--at the time of the first Arab oil embargo--they allowed buses and 4-person carpools.  (The term "HOV" first surfaced when I-66 opened inside the Beltway.)  HOV-3 took effect in January 1989--several years after it began on I-66.  I seem to recall that one of the arguments made at the time was that it was a success on I-66 and would likewise work well on I-95/395.  The motorcycle exemption started in 1992.

	I also seem to recall something along the lines of what user "fed up" states up above about Stan Parris's bill being the first time that the express lanes were open to all traffic at non-rush hour--previously it was always HOV-4.  Does anyone else remember this?

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USA Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 06 Jun 2002 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote USA Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Why not HOV-4 Posted: 10 Nov 2004 at 2:42pm
	I-66 inside the Beltway was originally HOV-4 when it opened just before Christmas in 1982, but NOBODY used it during rush hour for the reasons some folks have noted here about it being too hard to maintain a four-person carpool (slugging never took off out that way and was nascent on I-95 as well back then). It was changed to HOV-3 fairly quickly, I think by early 1984 although I cannot recall when. (I remember the picture of the HOV-3 sign in the Post with a tagline saying "A Sign the Rules Are Easing.") The road was still underutilized and in March 1995 they changed it to HOV-2, which still works pretty well on I-66 in my experience (talking only the inside-the-Beltway part....the left HOV lane outside the Beltway isn't so good). The history of HOV on Shirley Highway (I-95/395) is different. The idea for the express lanes first surfaced in 1964; they were completed from Springfield to downtown DC in 1971 (although the northern end took a bit longer to be opened fully because the Pentagon "Mixing Bowl" interchange was being rebuilt). At the time these lanes were solely for buses, but this was a waste of money, so in late 1973--at the time of the first Arab oil embargo--they allowed buses and 4-person carpools. (The term "HOV" first surfaced when I-66 opened inside the Beltway.) HOV-3 took effect in January 1989--several years after it began on I-66. I seem to recall that one of the arguments made at the time was that it was a success on I-66 and would likewise work well on I-95/395. The motorcycle exemption started in 1992. I also seem to recall something along the lines of what user "fed up" states up above about Stan Parris's bill being the first time that the express lanes were open to all traffic at non-rush hour--previously it was always HOV-4. Does anyone else remember this?

Tonka Truck Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 05 Oct 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Tonka Truck Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 04 Nov 2004 at 1:44pm
	Who remembers the bumper stickers (Restore HOV-4)?

sluDgE Members Profile Find Members Posts Master Slug Joined: 27 Oct 2003 Status: Offline Points: 501	Post Options Post Reply Quote sluDgE Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Nov 2004 at 7:28am
	Just wondering .. has there been a study on how much of an increase in housing development and resulting increased HOV use would result from extending HOV lanes to Freddie-burg or Spotsy County or even further south? Extending the lanes might make HOV demand and congestion as bad or maybe worse than it is now. [?]

Sheepish Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 20 May 2002 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Sheepish Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 02 Nov 2004 at 5:14pm
	quote: Originally posted by Stuck2 [br]Keep HOV 3, nix the exemptions, and ditch the HOT lane proposal. Also toss in DC, VA and MD constructively timing the traffic lights to help with traffic flow, and closing HOV at Edsall and Pentagon. Closing HOV at Edsall is not necessary! I have commented on this on another thread. There are many that carpool from Skyline or surrounding area, and having that entrance point is worthwhile so you don't always have to back-track to the Pentagon, or drive all the way down to Springfield. Until the law allowing single drivers to currently enter from there and exit those first two Springfield exits changes, there will always be that extra traffic. Once the construction finishes, and the law changes, then you advertise the change and enforce HOV-3 compliance.

bernestih Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 31 Jul 2003 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote bernestih Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Nov 2004 at 3:35pm
	Ref Hybrids. . .I was in the morning traffic as well. . .Gone are the days when you could get to the Pentagon in 20 minutes. I believe the Hybrids are also selling like hotcakes, but, I think the buyers should consider. . .if they buy the hybrids the traffic is going to be conjested just like the regular lanes and you're not going to get to your meeting, day care, doctors appointment on time. I also believe that when you have others in the car, you have a tendancy to drive more carefully, i.e., your family members. I know there have been a couple of townhall meetings which were mentioned in the Potomac News that the HOT lanes would allow single riders to ride by themselves for approx $4.80 each way, making that approx $200 a month. Really, can't we all get along and share the riding. We all have the same goal in common. . .trying to make a living for ourselves and family members. Is sharing a 20 minute ride so bad. . . .I remember 9/11. . .everyone was going out of their way to help one another. . .That lasted for about a month or two and we're back to road rage, etc. What happened?

HOVer Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 18 Oct 2004 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote HOVer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Nov 2004 at 2:26pm
	Sounds good in theory, but I too think I recall the reason for reducing HOV from 4 to 3 was to increase utilization of the lanes back in the day. I also think about your average Friday where, at least at the Old Hechinger's lot at Old Bridge and 123 it can be difficult just getting a couple of slugs, much less a 3rd. Then there are the drivers with the 2-door compact cars where there really isn't room for 2 average sized people in the back seat. I'm also one of those people with the carseat in the back that is god-awful difficult to put in and take out (I thought the LATCH system was supposed to be the answer to car seat installation hell, but apparently not, based on salsita's earlier posting). Before I had the car seat, I always "took a 3rd" which of course, people now have the option of doing. Not many are willing to though, esp in the AM, perhaps because they're thinking that's one additional stop they'll have to make in the obstacle course of downtown rush hour driving.

Stuck2 Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Stuck2 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Nov 2004 at 1:14pm
	Okay, it's were all the folks jump on right AFTER the PENTAGON -- you all know which one it is. All the old timers out there like to harken back the "good ol' days" before they opened up the bridge to everyone.

MDC Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 04 Dec 2002 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote MDC Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 Nov 2004 at 9:13am
	quote: Originally posted by Wagonman Close the HOV at the Pentagon? Are you freakin' nuts? Closing Edsall to non-HOV would help, but not closing it to all traffic. I took that to mean "close the 14th St bridge HOV lanes to non-HOV" even though Stuck2 did say Pentagon.

Wagonman Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Wagonman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 Oct 2004 at 11:14pm
	quote: Originally posted by Stuck2 Keep HOV 3, nix the exemptions, and ditch the HOT lane proposal. Also toss in DC, VA and MD constructively timing the traffic lights to help with traffic flow, and closing HOV at Edsall and Pentagon. Close the HOV at the Pentagon? Are you freakin' nuts? Closing Edsall to non-HOV would help, but not closing it to all traffic.

fed up Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 17 Sep 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote fed up Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 Oct 2004 at 3:45pm
	If memory serves me correctly, Congressman Stan Parris placed a rider to a bill to rename a building in Savannah, Georgia after Juliette Gordon Low, the founder of Girl Scouts. This rider changed the structure of HOV completely. It reduced the number of required riders from 4 to 3 and it also opened the HOV lanes to all traffic during non-rush hour, although lately that seems to be an oxymoron. Initally the Commonwealth of Virginia balked when Congress determined the evening HOV hours to be 3:30 to 6:00 and declared that HOV would be 3:30 to 6:30 (wouldn't that be nice). Well, Congressman Parris just didn't like that idea and told the Commonwealth that if they didn't shape up and play by his rules, Congress would withhold the federal monies earmarked for Virginia's roads. This all occured in the late 1980s and no changes have been made to the hours that HOV are opened in the evenings. I have always thought that 6:00 was too early especially for those work until 5:30. And now with all the congestion and traffic there is no way to get to the HOV lanes before 6:00 if you work until 5:30.