Pentagon "Police"

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   Well, having been stationed at a base that was attacked by terrorists, I, for one, am glad the SP/MPs have the authority to search anything that looks suspicious.  

	Of course, I'm just a boring old guy who drives the speed limit, uses turn signals, and stops at stop signs, so maybe that's why I can't recall the last time I was "harrassed" by police of any sort. 

	Oh, yeah, I was 25 and doing 130 in a 55 MPH zone.  Those Nazis carted me right off to jail, had my car towed, etc., etc.

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122582 Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 28 Apr 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote 122582 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 05 Jul 2005 at 9:07pm
	Well, having been stationed at a base that was attacked by terrorists, I, for one, am glad the SP/MPs have the authority to search anything that looks suspicious. Of course, I'm just a boring old guy who drives the speed limit, uses turn signals, and stops at stop signs, so maybe that's why I can't recall the last time I was "harrassed" by police of any sort. Oh, yeah, I was 25 and doing 130 in a 55 MPH zone. Those Nazis carted me right off to jail, had my car towed, etc., etc.

Wagonman Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Wagonman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 06 Jul 2005 at 6:23pm
	quote: Originally posted by 122582 [br] Of course, I'm just a boring old guy who drives the speed limit, uses turn signals, and stops at stop signs, so maybe that's why I can't recall the last time I was "harrassed" by police of any sort. It doesn't matter if you are obeying all laws. The Pentagon police setup checkpoints that stop everyone and then ask to search your car. I don't know what they will do if you say no. If you've done something to give them probable cause then I see no problem with them searching a car. What makes me cringe are the blanket searches that are done on Rotary Rd and ensnare anyone coming from the mall or Crystal city to the southbound HOV lanes. The first time I went through one of these checkpoints I was asked if I had any weapons and I responded "no" before I thought about it. I should have said nothing. Then the officer looked through all my windows(wagon, no trunk). The second time I got caught up in a checkpoint they just waved me through because the backup was so large and they had so many other cars already in the "search" area. The checkpoints are a farce since they are checking everyone that is trying to leave, not enter.

SlugginGator Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SlugginGator Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2005 at 12:27pm
	We have to realize that the primary function of the Pentagon police is that of fundraising. I don't know why they just don't come clean and say, yeah we are here to write you tickets and raise money so don't bother trying to talk your way out of (insert minor traffic infraction here).

tdar20 Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 29 Jul 2002 Location: va Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote tdar20 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2005 at 12:40pm
	I have a hard time understanding all the Pentagon police bashing on this thread. All in all they do a pretty good job trying to secure the largest office building in the world located next to one of the worse traffic back ups in the United States. Do they exceed their limits? Maybe, but then again the building was hit by an airplane and has been the target of countless demonstrations in years past. Are they the friendliest group�..definitely not. However it�s not their job to be friendly it�s their job to police. And if they give you a hard time for illegal parking, going the wrong way down a one way lane, having an expired inspection sticker or J walking then you probably deserved it. The check points are random inspection spots�..I never mind answering the questions or the search. It�s all part of the raised security awareness we have to live with. London this morning is another example the terrorist wont stop.

Wagonman Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Wagonman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2005 at 2:11pm
	quote: Originally posted by tdar20 [br]I have a hard time understanding all the Pentagon police bashing on this thread. All... I have no problem with them ticketing for expired tags, jaywalking, or traffic infractions. I wish they ticketed more for jaywalking since it snarls traffic and is very dangerous. Things that are within their authority are fair game and if you break the law don't whine. I understand the job they do and the risks they take. I felt terrible for the poor officer that was run over by a car-jacker. I just don't like the abuse of authority or the lack of legal basis for their checkpoints. I probably wouldn't care as much if the checkpoints were really setup to screen people that are arriving at the Pentagon, not the ones leaving or passing through on Rotary Rd. Even if they do catch anything at the checkpoints chances are the person charged wouldn't get thrown in jail since the search would be ruled illegal. Even if the person agreed to the search they can later claim intimidation and that claim has won in other checkpoint court cases. It is all a big waste of time(ever seen the backups the checkpoints cause?) and money. It also provides a false sense of security. This subject has been beat to death.

tdar20 Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 29 Jul 2002 Location: va Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote tdar20 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2005 at 3:12pm
	I am not sure your check point theory holds up here. It�s considered a military reservation and as previous posts pointed out......a different set of rules. You may stand on the idea that it�s the only way to get to the HOV lanes but during this time of increased security I am not sure it will hold up. After living on military bases for most of my life I have come to accept the DoD rules as a way of life. It is pretty clear...by entering the reservation you are subject to search; if you refuse I am sure that gives them probable cause to detain you. However it�s only my opinion here after being in the military for 21 years. I am also sure that a civilian lawyer and a military lawyer would have opposing stands also. How do you know the search will be considered illegal?? Or is that your opinion also? As for back up......so be it.......another thing we have to endure as our lives have changed over the years and its not going to get any easier in the near future. As for your false sense of security what would you have them do to fix it? Casting stones is ok as long as you cast a solution along with them.

ronin718 Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 30 Dec 2003 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote ronin718 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 07 Jul 2005 at 4:52pm
	And knowing the way Rotary Road is set up, how are the Pentagon Police supposed to determine who's coming and who's going? Face it, you've driven onto the reservation, so you've "entered". If you're coming from Crystal City and want to avoid the Pentagon reservation, you have the option of taking Rt. 110 north to the Arlington Cemetary exit, getting back onto Rt. 110 south, taking the Wash. Blvd. exit and getting onto the HOV lanes from there. Not convenient, extra distance, but at least you wouldn't have to deal with the Pentagon Police and their "jack boot" mentality. Yeesh!!! Get over it! [:P]

SlugginGator Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 07 Jun 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote SlugginGator Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jul 2005 at 2:48am
	I highly doubt that the asshole attitude of the police is a function of office building size. Did anyone ever get jaywalking tickets in New York City at the World Trade Center? Having been an employee there before, I have never heard of such a thing. Were the police assholes in NYC near the World Trade Centers? No, they weren't, they were friendly and helpful. The pentagon police is a farce and a fundraising front.

Wagonman Members Profile Find Members Posts New Slug Joined: 05 Aug 2003 Status: Offline Points: 0	Post Options Post Reply Quote Wagonman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 09 Jul 2005 at 6:00pm
	quote: Originally posted by tdar20 [br] As for your false sense of security what would you have them do to fix it? Casting stones is ok as long as you cast a solution along with them. Uh, not having useless checkpoints is the first thing that comes to mind. Second, they could could "wall off" from Rotary Rd in towards the Pentagon and check any car going into the secured, walled off area. Third, they could reconfigure the entrance to the southbound HOV to allow access from northbound S Eads, eliminating any need for people that don't have business there to drive through the Penatgon. Then they'd be able to setup checkpoints at the end of the roads that connect into Rotary Rd. Basically, the whole situation is a result of poor government planning. Why in the world would you build roads needed by the general public and bus transit centers that serve as a hub for the whole area right next to your miltary HQ? Instead of building that whole giant transit center right next to the building, they should have given up the parking lots south of I395 and built it there. They could have recovered any lost parking by paving over where the current bus transit center is. I suppose people could drive out of the way to get on the southbound HOVs but that solution should irk any taxpayer. Where did the money come from to build that entrance? General treasury funds? The highway trust fund? I'm sure that the DoD didn't fund it, why should it be their's to control? The Pentagon could seal it off to all but people with official DoD business since they control the access to it. They spent all that money fixing 110, why not fix the other messes? Your assertion that refusing to submit to a search provides probable cause is quite scary and would make any search legal. I emailed the Pentagon police after I went through one of their checkpoints. Their response was that their authority to search vehicles was based on 32 CFR �234.3 which I already posted. Nothing in those regulation authorizes searches except for entrance to facilities or secured areas of the reservation. Rotary Rd certainly doesn't fall under those categories. There is a difference between military property that is open to the public and closed bases. Even with closed bases I don't see any authority to force searches. But the military can not let you in, kick you off the base, and ban you. If you don't leave they can get you for trespassing. I'm sure they could ban you from the Pentagon for refusing a search. If anyone is subject to search once on a military base why do defense criminal investigators need to get search warrants? [:p] Again, I've ranted too much.