HOT question: tolls during non-rush hour

--sigh--

Goober, there CANNOT BE separate HOV and Toll entrances. The enforcement of the toll and the tolling itself are linked and must take place at the same point. Otherwise, I can drive onto the lanes through the HOV entrance, put my Smarttag in the "sock" which keeps the gantries from reading it (this is how it is done, btw,) and go my merry way. The tolling gantry can't tell if I'm HOV or SOV, so what does it do? Why, it lets me pass for free, doesn't it. Because as far as it can tell, I'm HOV.

The difference between dinky little SR-91 and our system is that ours is intended to be multi-access and multi-route and multi-toll-boothed.

If there was a single entrance point on the system, and only a few exit points downstream from that, you could do HOV enforcement and tolling at that single point and it would work (while still discouraging ridesharing, of course.)

But on the system Fluor and Clark are proposing, it CANNOT BE DONE. They say as bloody much in their proposals! And VDOT has asked them, "Why don't you tell us how you plan to accomodate HOV?"

No answer has been given because there IS NO ANSWER.

Even split ramps wouldn't work because who is there to enforce it? And how can the gantry tell if you paid or not? When your car passes under, the gantry registers your Smarttag and takes cash from your account. An SOV in a van could drive under without a Smarttag and then exit at the SOV ramp. Who's gonna know?

No, the only way a multi-access, multi-route, multi-tollbooth system works is if EVERYONE on it is charged on a per-mile basis. The engineers at Fluor and Clark know this. The marketers of HOT know it. The people at VDOT know it.

For a year I've asked here for working examples from comparable highway systems. I've written to experts asking about technological solutions to counting passengers. I've asked for people to offer answers on how to mix SOV and free HOV.

You know what I've learned?

No one has ever built such a complicated tolling system.
Experts admit no technology exists to count passengers.
HOV is indistinguishable from SOV: the toll charge will be same.

I think they should issue neck braces with small explosive charges in them with coin slots. If you aren't wearing them when you enter the lanes, you get charges an exuberant amount of money. If you are wearing them you can safely make it onto the HOT/HOV lanes. If you try to cheat in any way by not paying toll, they explode sending your and your passengers' heads into orbit.

Seriously though, without massive construction or separating HOV/HOT lanes completely or manned toll booths (which would slow traffic horrendously and defeat the purpose of the highspeed lanes), I don't see how they could effectively govern those with 3 or more passengers from SOV.

Max, I think it comes down to the inability to solve the overall congestion problem. Tolls will allow the governemnt to control how many cars are in the express lanes, and then tell those in the regular lanes that they can pay if they don't want to sit in traffic, so quit complaining. Express lanes as they are now move at least 35 mph faster than the regular lanes, and that's WITH hybrids. Some hybrid owners are willing to pay for the priviledge of less congestion, and removal of the exemption mobilizes them to support tolls. The slug anti-hybrid exemption sentiment is partially responsible for this situation - this site was quoted by VDOT as rationale for recommending removal of the exemption. Delegates in the area also refer to slugs when making proposals to remove the exemption. Is it any wonder that the hybrid owners are pro-toll?