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NoSUV View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Sep 2006 at 11:39am
scottt - is your Mazda 6i a SULEV? Remember, it's not JUST fuel economy, but also emissions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scottt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 8:12am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]scottt - is your Mazda 6i a SULEV? Remember, it's not JUST fuel economy, but also emissions.



Finding this info isn't the easiest. Still looking.

But I did find that the Mazda 3 is, and so is the Hyundai Elantra, among many others. If it's based on emissions, again, WHY NoSUV, WHY don't these cars get to play SOV in HOV?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 9:02am
scottt, in my opinion, if a vehicle meets SULEV standards, then it should receive an exemption to use the express lanes during commuting hours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n/a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 9:26am
You need to apply the "# of passengers" variable to each of your arguments. MPGs, becomes PMPGs (passenger MPGs), and likewise vehicle emmissions are divisable by the number of passengers.

So your SULEV may emit 1/4 the pollutants as a non-SULEV, but if you drive SOV and the non-SULEV drives with 4 passengers, you are equal! See how that works?!

And if your SOV hybrid gets 50 MPG, that is also 50 PMPGs. My car at 25 MPGs, with 4 passengers, gets 100 PMPGs, double that of your SOV hybrid. In this example, an HOV car also takes three other SOV vehicles off the road reducing traffic congestion, and eliminating the fuel consumption and pollution of those other vehicles.

This is not rocket science, this is simple commuting math! HOV is a better way to address our challenges in each case.

Now NoSUV, if you really are as altruistic as you claim to be, fill up those seats in your hybrid! When you do that, you'll be putting your money where your mouth is! Until then, you're just a lot of hot air and that contributes to global warming!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 10:18am
raymond - you have to use your formula for 100% of the miles, not just commuting miles. You bore me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MDC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 1:22pm
NoSUV,
There's no special exemption for the rest of the miles, so your demand is irrelevant to this site/discussion. Nobody hates SOV hybrids when they are off the HOV lanes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 8:38am
MDC - the total miles are EXACTLY relevant. That's why there's the incentive with the exemption!

Of course, the math might be too much for you and raymond. Try to get it right, though, will you? If you need help, just provide the raw data and I'm sure someone can do the math for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slugjo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 11:05am
The last Toyota salesman I talked to wouldn't listen either. I had to simply terminate the futile conversation and walk out. (Just for the record, it wasn't about hybrids, but about whether I was going to buy a pickup truck. I like hybrids, I just can't stand obstinate salesmen.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n/a Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2006 at 12:29pm
The total miles are relevant? How? Do hybrids get other exemptions that I haven't heard about? Since we are comparing commuting miles, and debating the hybrid HOV exemption, why would any miles driven outside of the HOVs be relevant?

I have posted my opinion on hybrid hate several times, and suggest that if there were no hybrid exemption, people would not resent hybrids. If hybrid owners were held to the same laws that all other commuters are, we would all be one big, happy commuting family sharing the HOV lanes. The ONLY miles relevant to this conversation, or to any debate regarding SOV hybrids in the HOV lanes are the miles driven in the HOV lanes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2006 at 7:43am
raymond = actually, you are wrong on hybrid incentives, but no one accused you of rational thought. The reason for exemption in the express lanes is to encourage purchase of Clean Special Fuel Vehicles, especially SULEV. The reason for the exemption IS NOT for people to bypass HOV restrictions, but to promote less damage to the environment for 100% of the miles.

So, yes, you must redo your calculations for ALL of the PMPG miles used by your vehicle - and mine - to properly conduct the cost/benefit analysis.
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