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Wagonman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wagonman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2005 at 7:00pm
quote:
Originally posted by Dick C
[br]What a lot of people do not understand about the hybrid vehicles is the Honda Insight, Civic Hybrid, and Toyota Prius all have an SULEV rating from the EPA. What is that? To qualify for the SULEV rating, a vehicle must produce less than 1/30th (a 97 percent reduction) the emissions of the current federal standard for some pollutants. So, in addition to averaging around 45 miles per gallon, I'm helping to get rid of greenhouse gasses -- the largest cause of global warming.



I suggest you check under your hood for your true emissions rating. The Civic hybrid is sold in two versions and if you bought yours here, I seriously doubt you have a SULEV rating. Another thing you need to remember is that the SULEV rating is a California creation and the car is tested when using California CARB gasoline which is much cleaner than the gas here. Unless you are importing California gas and have the Civic with California emission you are not producing 97% less pollution than an "average" car.

In fact, if you have the non-California version of the Civic hybrid there are plenty of normal gasoline cars that are cleaner than your car. Honda sells two version of both the Civic and Insight Hybrids. There is only one version of the Prius so people that have them would have a SULEV car, but they aren't running on CARB gas so they wouldn't be 97% cleaner either.
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Road Warrior View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Road Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2005 at 8:03am
quote:
Originally posted by billybob
[br] Snip...

According to the DMV and a friend I have at EPA, the aim is to reduce emissions. Congestion creates emissions, and will have to be reviewed in the future. Snip...

But what about going the other way -- the pollution created in the traffic jams is from NON-SULEV's. How about we make them clean fuel lanes regardless of the number of passengers? That way, when there was a back up, there would be ZERO pollution from congestion, versus what we have today - monster trucks spewing filth all over the place - even if it is on behalf of 2 or 3 people.. All hail the CFV Lanes! Would, incidentally, also be a lot easier to police for plates than people..
Snip...

-Billybob.



If the intent of the CFV exemption was reduce emissions, does that mean when Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel comes on the market in 2006, that I will be able to get a CFV exemption?

Or could I get the exemption now if I were exclusively use B100 biodiesel? For those who may not know, biodiesel is made from soybeans or used vegetable oil that is processed to remove the glycerol molecule in the form of glycerin (soap).

I can visit my local Chinese restaurant, take their used cooking oil off their hands (so they do not have to pay someone to haul it away) and after filtering out the glycerin, put it in my tank and drive down the road with virtually no emissions...in fact, if you were to smell the fumes coming out of the tailpipe, it would smell like General Tso's chicken or beef and broccoli.

Scientists believe carbon dioxide is one of the main greenhouse gases contributing to global warming. Neat biodiesel (100% biodiesel) reduces carbon dioxide emissions by more than 75% over petroleum diesel. Using a blend of 20% biodiesel reduces carbon dioxide emissions by 15%.

Biodiesel also produces fewer particulate matter, carbon monoxide, and sulfur dioxide emissions (all air pollutants under the Clean Air Act).

Since biodiesel can be used in conventional diesel engines, the renewable fuel can directly replace petroleum products; reducing the country's dependence on imported oil.

Just something else to think about.




John
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dkerley View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dkerley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2005 at 9:00am
Yum! General Tso's chicken! [:o)]

Dina
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3-For-HOV View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 3-For-HOV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2005 at 9:44am
There's an article in Nov or Dec's MONEY magazine about a restaurant owner who converted his truck he bought on eBay to run on used frying oil. Depending on where he gets the oil will determine the smell.
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Wagonman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wagonman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2005 at 7:29pm
quote:
Since biodiesel can be used in conventional diesel engines, the renewable fuel can directly replace petroleum products; reducing the country's dependence on imported oil.

Just something else to think about.




John



Hmmm. I think I know who you are. Do you drive a white Teutonic sedan that recently got a new head unit?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Admin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2005 at 6:37am
washingtonpost.com
As Hybrid Cars Multiply, So Do Carpooling Gripes

By Steven Ginsberg and Carol Morello
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, January 7, 2005; Page A01


A surge in the number of hybrid vehicles has left carpool lanes nearly as congested as the regular lanes they are intended to relieve, a Virginia transportation task force said yesterday.

A detailed study of carpool lanes on Interstate 95 found that the number of hybrids more than tripled between last spring and October. State transportation officials fear that the trend will continue as more hybrids enter the market and more commuters take advantage of an exemption allowing them to ride alone in such vehicles.

The findings reflect the sentiments of carpool-lane users, who have inundated state officials with complaints about increased delays and congestion over the past six months. Many blame hybrids.

"For every two cars, there's one hybrid," said Cora Seballos, who carpools daily from Springfield to the District. "Since September, usually the regular lanes have less traffic" than the carpool lanes. Seballos said she has to leave home a half-hour earlier because of the increased congestion.

On a Web site devoted to slugs, the people who form carpools at set spots so they can use high-occupancy vehicle lanes, the issue has dominated. The forum "Hybrids -- a threat to car pooling?" had drawn more than 11,550 readers at www.slug-lines.com as of yesterday afternoon; only a couple of other forums drew as many as 1,000.

Typical was this posting from a user named Viper: "Whether you look at it as an environmental issue or as a congestion issue, the result is the same -- HOV 3 is three times better than HOV 1 for the situation as a whole. The rule NEEDS to change soon." HOV-3 is the state's designation for a lane requiring three occupants. Viper's "HOV 1" is a smack at solo motorists in carpool lanes.

The hybrid exemption is scheduled to expire in June 2006, and the HOV task force of Virginia transportation officials and experts urged again in its second report yesterday that state leaders not extend it. In 2003, the task force also recommended instituting severe fines and increased police presence to crack down on HOV violators. Fines were raised to as much as $1,000, enforcement was increased and repeat offenders became subject to moving-violation penalties and points on their licenses.

Hybrids use a combination of gas and electric power. Current models get up to 60 miles per gallon and emit considerably smaller amounts of harmful gases than conventional cars. State rules allow owners of the Ford Escape hybrid, Toyota Prius and Honda Civic and Insight to drive solo in carpool lanes.

According to the Electric Drive Transportation Association, the Washington area ranks with California as the country's leading markets for hybrids.

Several car dealers in Northern Virginia said it's because of the HOV exemption. "I'd say 95 percent of the people who buy a Prius say it's to get into HOV," said Jay Taye, sales manager at Ourisman Fairfax Toyota. "They talk about the tax break and the HOV, and once in a while they say they prefer it for the gas mileage as well."

Low-emission vehicles were first allowed to use HOV lanes in 1994 to lessen the region's air pollution, but few drivers took advantage until hybrids were included in 2000. That year, there were 32 cars in all of Virginia with "clean fuel" tags -- a designation necessary for solo commuters to use HOV lanes.

By April 2003, that number had grown to 2,500 in Northern Virginia, and by the end of 2004 the region had 6,800 hybrid vehicles registered with "clean special fuel" plates.

In March, a traffic count on the HOV lanes of I-95 revealed 480 clean fuel vehicles -- about 8 percent of the cars that used the lanes at the time. By October, that count on I-95 more than tripled, to 1,700, 18 percent of all HOV traffic and enough to fill a single highway lane for an hour.

The growth in hybrids has helped increase the number of cars on the lanes to 1,900 an hour, beyond their operating capacity of 1,500 to 1,800 per lane an hour.

The HOV lanes are critical to the region's transportation network in part because they allow bus service to run smoothly. If they become chronically congested, slugs and other carpoolers could resume driving themselves, adding thousands of cars to the region's roads.

State officials released a letter yesterday from the Federal Highway Administration written in December expressing concern about the proliferation of hybrids in HOV lanes. The letter asked Virginia to increase enforcement and pursue other options to cut down on backups. The hybrid exemption is counter to federal law but has been allowed to continue as Congress debates possible revisions.

"In light of this study, I think we have to reevaluate our position," said Del. Brian J. Moran (Alexandria), chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, who backed the hybrid provision as recently as May.

Some dealers consider the end to the HOV perk an inevitable byproduct of the hybrids' success.

"When they first came out, I thought it was a good incentive," said Fernando Lobo, sales manager at Bill Page Honda near Falls Church. "Now everybody's trying to make hybrids. When they sell at volume, I knew that one of these days the HOV lanes wouldn't function anymore as HOV lanes."



2005 The Washington Post Company
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Road Warrior View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Road Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2005 at 7:19am
quote:
Originally posted by Wagonman
[br]
quote:
Since biodiesel can be used in conventional diesel engines, the renewable fuel can directly replace petroleum products; reducing the country's dependence on imported oil.

Just something else to think about.




John



Hmmm. I think I know who you are. Do you drive a white Teutonic sedan that recently got a new head unit?



Give the man a ceeeeegaaaaaaarrrrrrr and cupie doll!!!! I filled up again at the B20 pump...I got 671 miles out of the 14 gals of B20 in the last tank with lots of stop 'n go traffic. Maybe we can have mini-GTG at the pump one day..[;)]

John
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eniiler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eniiler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2005 at 9:32am
Dick: I'm a reporter at National Public Radio and would like to talk to you about your hybrid, and your commute. Please call or email
Thanks,

Eric Niiler
eniiler@comcast.net
301-657-8842

quote:
Originally posted by Dick C
[br]I'm a hybrid owner who regularly uses 66 for my commute to the Pentagon. It has reduced my commute time by nearly half. I'm very upset by the proposals to stop the exemption allowing the use of HOV lanes by hybrid owners. What a lot of people do not understand about the hybrid vehicles is the Honda Insight, Civic Hybrid, and Toyota Prius all have an SULEV rating from the EPA. What is that? To qualify for the SULEV rating, a vehicle must produce less than 1/30th (a 97 percent reduction) the emissions of the current federal standard for some pollutants. So, in addition to averaging around 45 miles per gallon, I'm helping to get rid of greenhouse gasses -- the largest cause of global warming.

One auto testing organization found fewer pollutants in the exhaust of a hybrid than were in the ambient air! So, yes we get the privilege of using the HOV lane because we don't pollute in the same way the other cars do. People ought to be glad I bought a $23,000 Civic, but instead, most of them give me the finger when I ride in HOV.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Max_28756 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2005 at 10:21am
I'm sure we all agree that Hybrid cars, regardless of what fuel they use, are a good thing. The issue at hand is they need to carry 3 in the vehicle. If they get better fuel economy in stop and go traffic with the electric motor starting, then they would do all that much better for the environment in the regular lanes. Stop by a commuter lot, pick up some riders and do your part to relieve congestion. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem!
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Wagonman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wagonman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2005 at 11:04am
quote:
Originally posted by eniiler
[br]Dick: I'm a reporter at National Public Radio and would like to talk to you about your hybrid, and your commute. Please call or email
Thanks,

Eric Niiler
eniiler@comcast.net
301-657-8842


If you do a report make sure you check under his hood for his true emissions rating before continuing the distribution of misleading info. I'd like to see the facts set straight in the media for once. I'm not trying to call Dick C a liar, his car dealer probably fed him a line of bull. Civic hybrids sold here aren't SULEV rated.
http://automobiles.honda.com/models/specifications_full_specs.asp?ModelName=Civic+Hybrid
If you read the above link you can see the two different emissions ratings depending on the market the car is sold in. The ones here are ULEV, not SULEV(or the new AT-PZEV). There are a lot of regular cars and SUVs rated ULEV.
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