Independence Day for Slugs NO MORE HYBRIDS

One EXTREMELY important calculation that isn't being factored in is waste disposal.

I just sold a 1966 model vehicle. It runs great. It's not in a junk yard somewhere. It's a "conventional" combustion engine. Doesn't have all the latest safety features, but a good car.

I have a 2000 Toyota Avalon. It is a 6 cylinder. Gets 27 mpg average based on my driving habits. It has all the latest safety features (at least enough to make it safe for quite a few number, 30?, of years to come).

Does going out and buying a new or used vehicle simply because it's called a "hybrid" make sense to junk either of those fine vehicles above especially if I were to be overcome with the temptation to drive SOV in the HOV (which the law is finally catching up to a more common sense approach)?

Selling my Avalon doesn't take it off the roads and do much/anything for emissions reduction since someone else is going to drive a comfortable and safe vehicle anyways?

The only way to get my "pollution factory" off the road is to completely scrap it. Tear up every salvagable piece on it so it can't be recycled to keep other "gas guzzlers" on the road--hey, you don't wanna contribute to furthering others' polluting habits do you?

So, if we scrap the "polluters", we're just filling up landfills with good machinery which could last for years as viable transportation.

Some zealots of hybrids would argue to fill up the landfills (what you don't say is as important as what you do say!) with our current state of the art technology in order to make room for the "latest and greatest" technology.

My Avalon is designed to last MANY more years, avoiding the landfill as long as feasible/economically practical. It's 7, maybe 8 years old (I bought it used). If it were a hybrid, it would be nearing the end of its service life and the batteries would need replacing. Which makes more practical sense in a HOLISTIC approach to being environmentally friendly.

Oh yeah, when my Avalon travels N_bound or S_bound, it has at least 3 for HOV--sometimes there's maximum seating occupied (5 of us) and comfortably seated I might add.

It's so easy to get fixated on some zealots petty rationale for hybrids and lose sight of the larger mosaic (big picture). Don't be fooled....marketers know how to manipulate your perceptions because they induce prejudices in your thinking without you even being aware of it.

NoSb

SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

NoSUV,
Unless you drive a whole tank doing only highway speed, AND another whole tank with only city driving, your calculations are meaningless in this discussion. Of course you don't need a computer to figure your average MPG on a tank of gas. That's a no-brainer! You haven't proven that you get better MPG driving in one place over driving in another. That you can divide xxx miles by xx gallons is not relevant to your claim.

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]What you know for a fact is that the vehicle gets better mileage on the highway than city/highway.

Since the variable is the city driving portion, you can logically infer that your vehicle gets better mileage on the highway than in the city.

---

If only this held true in ALL vehicles which are currently in existence you might have a leg or two to stand on.

Consider viewing www.fueleconomy.gov and you might come to another conclusion from which to try to form the basis for a factually based conversation. Logical inferences break down in this case.

Another consideration is just how "highway" driving is calculated. Does this include on/off ramp accel/decel from/to refuleing points? Or is this ONLY on the highway in order to remove the small discrepancy that may be induced in the calculations by driving from your home to the "highway" in order to start your trip?

In summary, some vehicles get better fueleconomy in city driving than highway.

NoSb

SOV because you can, HOV because you care!

Here is my question to all:

Hybrid or no hybrid, HOV or HOT, it seems that the main point here is the time utility that the HOV lane provides. I don't buy into environmental concern as the main reason for owning a hybrid. It would be naive to think that time did not have a money value and I respect the fact some people are willing to exploit this SOV capability (e.g. Why do people choose to fly instead of driving?).

Furthermore, we should expect a very high influx of people into our area (that is, Northern Virginia) for many economic and government reasons (e.g. BRAC, increase of jobs, etc). What are some long-term solutions to this problem? Eliminating hybrids, motorcycles, etc as SOV vehicles will make a difference but not in the long run: the hybrid will ultimately still be used in accordance with HOV rules and regulations, people tend to own conventional vehicles as opposed to hybrids, and every highway, interstate has a limiting factor on how much traffic it can handle.

It seems that a lot of you are trying to convince each other of the principle of the matter whether it is pro-environment or a matter of "buying your way out of a problem." For all you people whether pro-hybrid or anti-hybrid, you have failed to use a more relevant buzzword: sustainability.

What are some long term solutions?

My concise logic:
Limit f(n) = M
n->infinity

where, n = number of people using HOV
f(n) is the dynamic function that represents the capacity of the HOV lane (let me know if you want to help me with this)
M = a maximum

We will at some point experience a scenario in which P>M, where P = number of HOV uses.

FINAL QUESTION: What do we do??? Long-term solutions, please.

P.S.
I noticed some math being thrown around, consider this: This could be a periodic trend and we will later experience regression to the mean. If this is true, then no legislation will solve the problem. I have done some mathematical modeling and any sort of external interference with the system will affect it short-term but not in the long-run. If anybody is experienced with this, please let me know if my assumptions (I have modelled this as a steady-state, stable, dynamic system) are incorrect.

Please observe the inherent irony Bob, I slug and drive and therefore do not discount myself from a group that complains. Either way lets not get distracted, I believe I am asking a salient question.