Will you take a third?
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Topic: Will you take a third?
Posted By: Tonka Truck
Subject: Will you take a third?
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2005 at 1:29pm
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This mainly occurs in the AM commute...There seems to be a trend occurring with AM Slugs that think if they ask the driver if they will take a third rider that they themselves are entitled to be that third rider even though they are not the next in line for that destination. Has anyone experienced this?
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Replies:
Posted By: carleric
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2005 at 1:37pm
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We recently had this very discussion. There's a minority of people who think that the asking entitles them to the seat, as opposed to just helping move the line along. Personally, I don't get it. You get the seat 'cause you're loud? Oh, well. Most slugs don't operate that way.
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Posted By: tri2dc
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2005 at 1:38pm
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The nerve of some people, I mean really what kind of world do we live in.
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Posted By: VA_Slugger
Date Posted: 17 Feb 2005 at 2:09pm
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But what gets me are the riders who "actually" get upset and start bad mouthing the drivers who politely refuse to take a third [:I] [?] [:I]. And God forbid if the person has an SUV or equally large vehicle, they would really lose it [:0].
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Posted By: remowilms
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2005 at 10:41am
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I haven't experienced this in the AM. But last week going home from the Pentagon to Rolling Valley, I actually saw a lady effectively bully the driver into taking her as a third. The rider stood right next to the passenger window and seemingly wouldn't move until the driver acknowleged her. I could not believe the driver actually said yes and proceeded to get out of the car and move her stuff to accomodate the "bully" rider. Wow...thought I had seen everything.
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Posted By: EnufisEnuf
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2005 at 1:12pm
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That is Pana. Pana did a post recently about the fact that he/she calls for a 3rd and then people get mad when he/she takes the ride. Apparently Pana does this a lot trying to get a ride before their turn. I wish I could find the post but I can't. Pana created it.
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Posted By: mycroftt
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2005 at 12:40pm
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First of all, asking the driver to take another rider is rude unless there are exceptional circumstances. If someone is rude enough to ask the driver to take extra riders, I would fully expect that indivivdual to be rude enough to try to jump the line as a reward for being so rude.
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Posted By: tdar20
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2005 at 12:50pm
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Its never rude to ask.....thats just a polite way of seeing if there is a chance that another person can ride.
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Posted By: AF Fam
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2005 at 7:20am
Here is the link to Pana's post:
http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1947&SearchTerms=third
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Posted By: tdar20
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2005 at 8:16am
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I should have added that asking is not rude but cutting in line is extremely rude. Ask for those in front of you to help the line move along.
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Posted By: EnufisEnuf
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2005 at 9:12am
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That Pana is one rude individual. That is just wrong. I knew the link was somewhere, I just couldn't find it. Maybe if they keep trying to cut in line and being obxnious, a driver will finally tell them they aren't welcome to ride at all. I'm sure fellow slugs cringe when they see Pana walking up screaming and hollering about a third and then cutting in line. It's just a shame...[V]
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Posted By: PanaRican
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2005 at 9:44am
Um, you may want to read my postings before you say that I am the one bullying people around for a third rider. FIRST OFF, I said I DON'T do that anymore because I realize that if people want a ride, they'll ask for it. SECOND, unless you know me, which you don't, don't start talking a mess about me jumping infront of other riders or forcing a driver to take a third person because I sure as hell don't do that. A simple question "do you mind taking a third?" or just a show of three fingers to the driver to see if they can take a third is not bullying or forcing anybody to do anything. My point was that if the driver has space to take a third and there is a rediculously long line, what is the harm in asking if they can. Plain and simple.
I am NOT the only one who thinks that if nobody infront is asking to take a third that means they aren't going in that direction. So someone who is 5th in line will ask to take a third and the person who is infront of the line will get mad and say "I'M NEXT!" Ok, nobody said you weren't next, but if you want a ride just say so and get in the car. ANYBODY at my commuter lot will jump any other rider in line to be next. I'm 100% sure my lot is NOT the only one where people bully others around like that on a regular basis.
Bottom line, know your facts before you start talking !#*@.
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Posted By: mikester
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2005 at 9:55am
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Wow I didnt realize people get so worked up about the etiquette. I'm just starting slugging and all these 'rules' and conditions are a little confusing. The few times I've done it seemed to go pretty quickly and uneventfully. We gotta remember we're a collection of individuals who won't always agree
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Posted By: carleric
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2005 at 12:09pm
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I have been slugging every day out of Tacketts and Potomac Mills for better than a year now and have NEVER seen behavior like that which Pana describes. Is this line-cutting more common than I think it is? Am I just lucky in my choice of lots?
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Posted By: vabigblue
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2005 at 12:18pm
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I think you are just luckly with the lots you slug out of. Tacketts never experiences that type behavior. Pana probably goes out of Horner.
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Posted By: sharonji27
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2005 at 12:46pm
I was talking with a co-worker about slugging and they were able to understand the idea of it being mutually beneficial for a driver to pick up 2 people to have three for the HOV. But they didn't understand why if a driver takes extra people to be nice they are not compensated for it.
I would like to qualify this statement by stating that I frequently take a third, but just had never seen this idea come up during discussion and wanted to see what others thought about it.
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Posted By: ohio 7
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2005 at 9:58am
Once you start taking money you are a "car for hire" in the eyes of your insurance company - and if you have an accident don't think they won't ask each passenger the details!
The idea is to NOT pay. That's how the system has functioned for almost 30 years. I doubt that anyone would want to pay someone for a ride when they can get a free one without taking another step.
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Posted By: VA4ver
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2005 at 10:03am
Actually, I don't see what the fuss is over taking a third if there's more people in line than there are cars. If you have room, take a third. The driver should openly state whether or not they want to take a third. Give a shout -- "Two for ...." Then there's no question as to the driver's preference.
As for your insurance company and your passengers. If you are in an accident you are responsible for your passengers whether or not they pay you for the ride.
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Posted By: DC2RV
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2005 at 12:39pm
Not that it would dissuade the pushy ones among us, but the first in line can ask, "how many?" and can relate that info to people in line. Should someone still ask if the driver can take an additional person, the 1st person can always say, "No, they said only so many." This approach helps take the pressure (if any exists) from the driver.
I would say to use common sense, but that's really not all that common from what I've seen.
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2005 at 12:46pm
Responsibility. Insurance Coverage. Liability.
You buy insurance to share responsibility for unforeseen events. If you are in a crash and there are slugs in your car, insurance companies treat them as invited riders. You are covered and those invited passengers are covered unless your insurance has a clause to the effect that they will cover only immediate family members or some defined group. Those restricted policies are rare and the agent has to get you to initial that you understand who is covered and who is not covered.
Perhaps one or several of the intrepid readers will take it on themselves to get a definitive answer from the major insurers. Or better yet to get the major inurers to post what is covered and what is not covered in slugging and how to read an insurance policy when it comes to slugging.
Be careful in talking to insurance companies that they understand it is for Shirley Highway slugging.
If you take money from a rider and are in a crash, your insurance is null and void as far as paying their expense. On some policies, coverage of your expenses may be denied also.
In general, you no longer share financial responsibility with your insurance company if you charge to ride. All responsibility is on your shoulders and out of your pocketbook. To get coverage on a "for hire" basis is very expensive. Insurance expense is one reason you do not see private bus companies. Insurance expense is a HUGE factor in van pools.
Public transit self insures. There may be some token coverage for excess losses, like an earthquake that collapses a METRO tunnel. But if someone trips and breaks a fingernail, public transit pays out of their contingency funds. But the payment usually is not to the injured. The payment is to an insurance investigator. That investigator identifies coverage carried by the injured person. Payment to the injured is made by the person's insurer, not the transit system.
Slug riders are covered by some form of individual insurance. If nothing else, credit cards have some minimal travel coverage built in to their fees.
In case of a "shared ride" crash, your insurance company pays, but will go after the insurance company of the injured rider for reimbursement. Most drivers in northern Virginia are covered by USAA (military), GEICO or All State. If both driver and passenger are insured on separate policies by the same company, the transaction is internal bookkeeping. If different companies are involved, payment is negotiated between the companies.
If transit has insurance that is "too good" it attracts claims and law suits. Transit also seems to attract deranged people that get on a crowded bus with a bottle of gasoline and proceed to immolate themselves and all others. Terrorists look on mass transit as a target. Shh, don't tell anyone. Top secret. Especially the countermeasures.
Virginia law has been tweaked several times to accomodate casual car pools in regard to insurance liability. Preferred parking is not compensation and the like.
Some insurers will cover the immediate claim if you charge to ride and are in a crash but will cancel your policy or put you in assigned risk pool. Very expensive.
One aspect of insuring slugs that may not be apparent is that slugs have a non existent claim record. Insurance companies set their rates based on history. If your car is garaged in a ZIP code with a high theft rate, your premiums are adjusted accordingly. If you drive a lot of miles, your premiums are adjusted accordingly. If you get moving violations, your premiums are adjusted upward. If there are no claims (which is good), insurance actuarials have nothing on which to base rates.
Because the reversible lanes are not congested, the crash rate is zero, or close to zero. It is to the advantage of insurance companies to have uncongested roads. Insurance companies promote ride sharing for this reason.
Drivers tend to be more careful when a passenger is in the car and another set of eyes helps in averting crashes.
Does anyone have an update on coverage for slugs and van pools as stated in Virginia law? Or as stated in policies?
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: bnvus
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2005 at 1:37pm
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I think it depends on where you pick up. Sometimes if you take a third there is not enough slugs left for the rest of the cars who are WAITING to pick up riders. You really need to asssess the situation and use common sense.
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Posted By: EnufisEnuf
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2005 at 4:11pm
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Calm down Pana! She is a firecracker! Must be a Latin Lady!
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Posted By: koakui
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2005 at 4:20pm
I've seen it in the afternoon from 14th & NY and also from Horner. I haven't really seen it at Potomac yet. I think for the most part its never really a problem. I think we are seeing it more now because it is cold out and everyone just wants to get home. That's my 2 cents.
Cruisin in HOV
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Posted By: PanaRican
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2005 at 4:21pm
ufisEnuf Posted - 02 Mar 2005 : 16:11:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Calm down Pana! She is a firecracker! Must be a Latin Lady!
Daaaaaaaaamn right! [:X] How'd you guess?
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Posted By: PanaRican
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2005 at 4:28pm
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Also, carleric, I slug from the Pentagon in the evening and in the morning from Springfield and let me tell you, they are all jumpy to get in first. I see people cut on a daily basis. But what sucks is that the people getting cut infront of don't say anything. I guess to avoid an argument since it isn't really worth it, but there might be a small handfull of people who do it and since I get there at the same time everyday, I see the same people doing it probably. I stopped going to Bob's for just that reason, they are rude up there - the drivers AND the riders!!!
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Posted By: DC2RV
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2005 at 5:59pm
What time do you (or did you) get to Bob's. I've seen civility, I've seen rudeness - but I wouldn't generalize everyone as being rude.
I'm usually there between 6:30 and 6:45. (of course 5 minutes makes a big difference...)
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2005 at 7:19am
And I bet those line-jumpers at Bob's are the same ones who risk life and limb by running across OKM Rd in the middle of the block, and it's just too much bother for them to cross OKM safely in the crosswalk with the light at the intersection. [:(] Some folks just can't slow their lives down a bit to obey the laws and the rules of politeness. Be safe and polite, y'all. [;)]
Keep on sluggin'! [:)]
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Posted By: P8R10TZ
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2005 at 11:52am
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If there are four riders waiting for a ride, and the weather is not bad, I don't like to take a third. My reason for this is now that fourth rider (who would become a lone rider) may have to wait much longer for a ride home. If there's five or more...sure come on in! [:)]
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Posted By: PanaRican
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2005 at 2:19pm
When I used to go to Bob's I didn't get there until about 7:20, and yes, sluDgE, they probably are the same ones that race across OKM. It bothered me that they would rather risk their lives to run across 6+ lanes of traffic just to get a ride 2 minutes before me. The one, and only, day that I saw a cop at the lot was actually humorous to me b/c people were still running across the street and the cop was just giving out tickets. I wouldn't ever wish anything bad on anybody, but if I had the choice to get to work ALIVE and get there a minute late, i'd still choose to get there alive, but that's just me.
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Posted By: mycroftt
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2005 at 8:03am
quote:
Originally posted by RobertLangDirect
[br]
Depend what you mean by compensation. Look at the larger view. People ask to "take a third" when the waiting-pickup lines are long and the cars are plentiful. By taking a third, you speed up the commute and encourage others to stand in line for a ride.
Does it have a down side? Maybe, but I do not get a lot of feedback by drivers who are "stranded."
The way I view it is that slugging should benefit both riders and drivers. When a driver takes more than two riders, he is potentially depriving the next driver of having enough riders to use HOV. When I hear a rider ask a driver to take extra riders I hear "I don't care about the rest of the drivers - I only care about my own personal immediate needs. They can sit here all day for all I care. I'm important and I need to get to work now". Of course that doesn't hold true under those exceptional circumstances we all know so well.
When I'm at the front of the line and all those immediate gratification types are bellowing for me to ask if the driver will take a third I just keep my mouth shut.
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Posted By: murphy1
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2006 at 9:19am
quote:
Originally posted by carleric
[br]I have been slugging every day out of Tacketts and Potomac Mills for better than a year now and have NEVER seen behavior like that which Pana describes. Is this line-cutting more common than I think it is? Am I just lucky in my choice of lots?
Yes...you're lucky in your choice of lots...I picked up from Tacketts and Potomac for several years. Montclair also for awhile. Never ever have I seen the rudeness that I've seen in the Stafford lots in the past 6 months I've been picking up down here! It's horrible. Both with slugs jumping in front of each other and more so with drivers cutting in line at the lots and at the Pentagon. It's bad enough that I've actually had several days recently that I've left the lot and just sat in the regular lanes of traffic rather than watch the rudness. What has happened to kindness??
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2006 at 12:35pm
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Maybe it's something in the air or in the water. [:p]
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2006 at 3:12pm
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True, some people are timid and do not speak up when maybe they should. And others are not that comfortable with the SLUG system and rules. And some are still a little sleepy at 7am. But that does not mean that others, who are bold, experienced or awake, should take advantage or be rude. Courtesy is the key, so let's remember our elementary school manners and don't cut in line. It's not rude to ask if a driver will take three, and if the first person in line won't ask, why not the fifth? But the first person in line for that destination should have dibs on that ride, it keeps the line moving and we all get moving faster. No need to cut in or to get upset about it. Let's keep it light and we'll all get home safe!
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Posted By: SillyBilly
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2006 at 4:58pm
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Sometimes we stuff a slug in the trunk when it gets too full in the car, they don't seem to mind at all.
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