what was with traffic this morning???
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Topic: what was with traffic this morning???
Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Subject: what was with traffic this morning???
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2005 at 8:02am
Does anyone know what was up with traffic this morning, even on the radio, they kept saying slow commute north bound 95, but no explanation, I didnt see anything!!
Is it the tourists already????
:'}
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Replies:
Posted By: DC2RV
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2005 at 8:54am
Posted By: smiths
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2005 at 9:07am
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I saw the huge sign stating "HOV enforcement ahead" or something similar. Who was the brainiac who located this sign prior to the 495 and Parkway exits? And where was the enforcement...
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Posted By: DC2RV
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2005 at 9:17am
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At 6:45, it was between 644 and Duke st.
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2005 at 9:34am
There was another "violator sweep" this morning from Va 644 (OKM Rd)to at least the Seminary Rd area at about 6:15 to 6:30. [:D] Not as many Troopers as the previous sweep, but we saw 4 or 5 violators (and one broken down vehicle - the hood was up) being "greeted" by officers enforcing HOV restrictions this morning. [;)]
Again, three cheers for the law enforcement community keeping cheaters out of the HOV lanes. Way to go State Troopers! [^]
Keep on sluggin'! [:)]
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Posted By: CallmeMrSlug
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2005 at 10:12am
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I counted no less than 15 state troopers doing HOV enforcement when I came through between 6:20-6:40. I was proud of them guys! They were all over the place and all were busy writing tickets! It was a great day to be a slug and a bad day to be a cheat (as if there are any good days to be a cheat)
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Posted By: DaVetsAtHome
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2005 at 10:47am
quote:
Originally posted by smiths
[br]I saw the huge sign stating "HOV enforcement ahead" or something similar. Who was the brainiac who located this sign prior to the 495 and Parkway exits? And where was the enforcement...
I saw the Springfield ramp, from the HOV lanes to 95 proper, littered with the ravaged carcasses of fleeing violators, who took the bait, only to be cannalized into the pre-prepped, Trooper kill zone.
Ha, ha! Too much fun!
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Posted By: Baz
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2005 at 10:56am
Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2005 at 11:55am
Isnt that funny, I didnt see any of that, I left Stafford at 6:50, didnt get to DC till 10to 8! Must have been napping....
NA NE NA NE POO POO- DOWN WITH HOV VIOLATORS!!!! (AND HYBRIDS ON HOV)
:'}
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2005 at 12:07pm
Baz,
I think DaVets means the last exit from HOV before the Farnconia-Springfield Parkway HOV exit. That's the exit that flys over the regular lanes and then drops traffic back onto the regular northbound I-95 lanes so the traffic can get on the Beltway and head for Baltimore or Tysons Corner. Appears the end of that exit is what he is referring to as "95 proper". [:I]
No matter how you say it, cops ticketing violators is a great thing for all the legal HOV users! The 4 of us in my carpool sure love it!Hope they keep up the enforcement! [:D]
Keep on sluggin'! [:)]
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2005 at 12:13pm
Yep. I guess the troopers used that as a tactic to get the violators to think they were safe getting off the Springfield ramp.
Bad news for them. HOV enforcement was in place right at the end of the ramp.
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Posted By: vabigblue
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2005 at 12:35pm
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We noted an Army guy driving alone in his car. I first noted him just as we got on the HOV at 123. He drove all the way to the Pentagon without being stopped. He was very lucky.
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2005 at 1:19pm
[;)] The Army guy must have been an "on duty" Military Police officer in the HOV conducting "official law enforcement business". [;)] He had to justify being on the HOV in his own mind. [:p]
Keep on sluggin'! [:)]
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2005 at 1:51pm
I agree that enforcement is good and this new tactic will no doubt have a very good effect. My question to fellow slugs is, how often should they do this, given that it does impede flow on the day they do it!!
What do you think?
Bob
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2005 at 3:11pm
quote:
Originally posted by getmehome pweeze
[br]Isnt that funny, I didnt see any of that, I left Stafford at 6:50, didnt get to DC till 10to 8! Must have been napping....
NA NE NA NE POO POO- DOWN WITH HOV VIOLATORS!!!! (AND HYBRIDS ON HOV)
:'}
Actually, we should be thankful for hybrids on HOV. The alternative is HOT. Just look at the congestion in the regular lanes! Hybrids over there makes that part far worse, and with HOV humming, a high occupancy tool graduated for number of riders becomes the balancing effort.
So, let's kick out the hybrids so we can lose the ability to ride free!
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 7:43am
Um, no, hybrids should be like everyone else on HOV, you know,three for free, not, oh Im special, my car gets better mileage than yours!! Im all for the better good of the planet and all, but not when out of every ten cars, I see at least three to five hybrids, with one person! DOWN WITH HYBRIDS ON HOV!! HAPPY FRIDAY!
:'}
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 8:33am
quote:
Originally posted by getmehome pweeze
[br]Um, no, hybrids should be like everyone else on HOV, you know,three for free, not, oh Im special, my car gets better mileage than yours!! Im all for the better good of the planet and all, but not when out of every ten cars, I see at least three to five hybrids, with one person! DOWN WITH HYBRIDS ON HOV!! HAPPY FRIDAY!
:'}
Right you are! Bring on the HOT! It's either hybrids or tolls to solve the TOTAL (2 lanes moving, 3 lanes not) congestion problem. Those of us who use the regular lanes on occasion CAN'T WAIT! Keep up the good press!!!
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Posted By: scottt
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 8:43am
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Just wish the cops would do the same type of enforcement in the afternoon.
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 9:03am
For the last time, I am not for HOT, I pay enough on a daily basis you know, mortgage, food, water. I, nor anyone else, should have to pay for the privilage to get to work faster,or in my case,just on time. I'ts just not rite. Isn't it enough that we pay for gas, registration, emmissions, inspection, car loans, insurance, COUNTY TAXES, I'm from NY, there are no county taxes, don't get me started on that BS, but come on people, is HOT really the answer?
:'}
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 10:50am
Sorry, GMHP, but it won't be the last time. NoSUV has welcomed you to the twilight zone of his addled thinking. We must all be prepared to constantly repeat for the hard-of-understanding the basic facts and figures of HOV: More People in Fewer Cars is better than More Cars with Fewer People.
Yes, it is pretty simple, I know, but we have to talk in small words for to help our less-witted brothers like NoSUV.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 11:46am
Ah, yes. Keep it coming. Obviously you've not looked out the window lately at the regular lanes. Ever thought (whoops, that's asking too much) why there are so many cars in the regular lanes? Figured out why those taxpayers aren't in HOV? Do you suppose they LIKE being stuck in traffic?
You've not been able to balance the flow by being more strident, or through use of smaller words. On 4/4 at 4pm on 395 south there were no cars for over 1/4 mile in HOV lanes, and the regular lanes were at a creep. Moving hybrids out of HOV won't help the regular lanes - toll becomes the best balancing solution using market forces. Hybrids out = tolls in. Please, please, please - end the hybrid exemption so we can get the toll passed.
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 12:24pm
And, exactly, how much extra money do you have at the end of your bill paying budget to waist? HOT should be a last resort, Not the first. Get over yourself.
:'}
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Posted By: sbouncer
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2005 at 12:29pm
And all those people in the regular lanes have to do is stop and pick up some passengers and they too can be flying home on the wonderful HOV lanes......
Keep on Slugging!!!!
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Posted By: shahedC
Date Posted: 11 Apr 2005 at 1:16pm
NoSUV, u keep referring to "moving hybrids out" as a bad thing. But why do hybrids have to be moved out? They can simply be required to carry 3 people, which is what will happen after the exemption expires.
That will immediately take 2 other cars off the road.. imagine how smoothly HOV traffic would flow then!
So, "moving hybrids out" does not mean that HOT is the only other option to smooth traffic!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2005 at 7:38am
When the hybrid exemption was inacted, did the regular lane congestion ease? Generally speaking, do the HOV lanes today move better than the regular lanes? If the answer to both is yes, then ending the hybrid exemption would indicate an increase in regular lane congestion while HOV lanes would move even more smoothly. That's the opposite of balance.
When the hybrid exemption ends, it's only a matter of time before clammoring increases for a better balance. Don't even need to build another lane to get a better balance, just put up toll booths and let the market provide the balance. Can still have a graduated toll so HOV-3 is free, but without the hybrids sharing HOV lanes, there's a need to put other cars into the HOV lanes to make it better for the regular lanes.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2005 at 11:42am
NoSUV: the answers to the questions are not both Yes. The answer to the first is No: regular lane congestion was unchanged by the hybrid exemption. In fact, regular lane congestion has gotten worse in the past two years. So has HOV congestion. So how do we get more vehicles off the road? encourage van-carpooling and slugging and busriding.
You silly, silly man. You are talking about balance between numbers of vehicles, not numbers of people. More people get to work on the HOV lanes than the regular lanes, did you know that? High-breds clog the HOV lanes and... aw, what's the use? Idiots like you and Qorc give me a headache. Me and Gary are going to bed.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2005 at 12:03pm
If anything, ending the exemption will increase the number of HOV-3 compliant cars. The people in the regular lanes choose that lifestyle for themselves. A significant portion of them could be doing HOV if they wanted to.
What the smugs do after their exemption ends is up to them. They don't belong in the HOV lanes.
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2005 at 12:08pm
Why is it that the only resort is to make HOT lanes??
NoSUV-Like I asked, and you did not answer, how much extra do you have in your wallet to pour into HOT lanes?? And if you listened and comprehended what we have been writing, Hybrids need to join the rest of the HOV (HIGH OCCUPANCY vehicles), and PICK UP SLUGS!! 1 hybrid + 2 slugs= 2 less cars on HOV, fool! NoSUV, didnt you stop to think, or see, or notice, that the population of VA has vastly grown over the last two years? I'm surprised you havent gone on a rant that people need to start paying higher taxes to live here, then maybe some of them will move away, and congestion on your precious regular lanes will ease. Why do you post here? You sure don't seem to respect the HOV system.
:'}
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2005 at 12:18pm
Nicely done MDC!
The people in the regular lanes can easily pick up people but they refuse and choose to be stuck in traffic every single day.
A perfect system have to end to relief traffic in the regular lanes?? NO sense.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2005 at 3:05pm
What it sounds like is that all taxpayers, who paid for the building and operation of the roads, should support a minority who want to ride for free. Tolls allow for those who pay for the roads to use them.
How much to pay? Good question - never thought I'd be willing to pay $2.20/gal for gas, but now am doing so. Probably don't want to pay what SpongeBob can afford of $50, but he's rich since he hasn't had to pay to use the roads.
Sponge is right that population has increased in the (outlying) area, as have jobs in DC. Robert Lang on another posting actually had some good suggestions, none of which appear to be on the political agenda. Sponge knows the answer - just ask him - as to why the number of hybrids have increased in the area; I'm sure he'd tell you the majority come drivers who used to pick up slugs. Of course, that paints a poor picture of slugs... but, from the postings, the shoe fits.
Even Dr Gridlock has started to realize that the hybrid exemption is not the problem; once it goes away, though, it won't be long before the existing HOV lanes turn into toll roads to ease the regular lane traffic.
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2005 at 3:18pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]When the hybrid exemption was inacted, did the regular lane congestion ease? <>
If your only tool is a hammer, every problem has to look like a nail.
Henry G. Shirley must be spinning in his grave. As must be Frank Turner.
During and after WW-II, about one-third of the commuters in the Shirley corridor were in car pools. Both ad-hoc (slugs) and planned. People moved into the area either in response to a war, (Korea, Viet Nam, Iraq, Iraq) or a change in political power. Very few moved away.
Neighborhoods were very similar. Pretty much the same age group, education and military experience. Some had never been on a farm. The people brought their commuting habits with them. If from New York City, Chicago, or Philadelphia, they wanted a train or subway. If from California, they demanded a freeway. Few of the new people looked around to see what the Romans were doing. (When in Rome, do as the Romans.)
Any mention of passenger brought out the Cody Pfanstiehls, Gus Robys, Steve Roberts, Dottie Cousineaus and Frank Wolfs. There was no champion for ad-hoc car pools. Advocates for METRO, train, train again or ferry boats were able to build on an available passenger base that had been established by slugs. To my knowledge, slugs are the only group selling the concept of becoming a passenger.
The tools that were used to "solve" congestion only made congestion worse. Did METRO get cars off the road? NO! Did VRE get cars off the road? NO! Was slugging promoted? NO!
The Boards and Commissions that have been set up for the operation of Shirley Highway are missing the point. Those groups address some minor factor, that taken by itself makes the problem worse. For instance, enforcement of HOV rules. Yes, enforcement is needed. But without an explanation of what HOV is trying to accomplish, enforcement hardens peoples' hearts and minds against ride-sharing.
By the way, the fine for driving solo on HOV is a bargain when you consider the time saving and the probability of being caught. If enough drive alones thought that way, they could easily jam the reversible lanes and set up a clamor to end the HOV "experiment".
On the one hand, single occupant cars are stopped and the driver is ticketed. But no expalnation other than "Its the law." The offender has no understanding of free flow or how to accomplish free flow. Maybe the "punishment" should be a requirement to ride as a slug for two months.
On the other hand drivers of clean fuel vehicles are encouraged to drive solo. There is no effort to get passengers.
Getting passengers requires two things. Parking and a pulpit (publicity). If the parking is not available to form car pools (ad-hoc or other), parking moves out on to the roadways.
Maybe that parking tendency is some behavior of cars that has not yet been recognized. If parking isn't available, a cluster of cars will become a parking lot.
My personal opinion is that there is plenty of parking in the suburbs. Just not wisely used.
That leaves the pulpit. When the public message is that if you want to be a passenger, better do it in an "approved" vehicle, slugs get shortchanged. Who really gets the slug?
The target should be to get enough passengers to allow ALL the lanes to free flow. Ramp metering may be necessary to keep the lanes free-flow. But the message should be that people are friendly enough to ride with. If you don't feel inclined to ride with your neighbor, you should think about moving to Montgomery County and riding the Red Line. Or moving to Patuxent River, or Concord, California.
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2005 at 3:40pm
NOSUV= fool.
Dont we pay for the roads with car tax, decals, registration, gas, insurance, car notes, you, are a fool.
:'}
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2005 at 4:00pm
OK, let's see NoSUV argue with all THAT! Someone hand Dick a beer.
The bottom line is: No SUV is coming late to this dance. The points he makes are easily dealt with and have been raised and refuted over and over on this board. We are a microcosm of human societal evolution: nothing ever changes, really: we are doomed forever to repeat the mistakes of our fathers.
Oh well, here goes again:
He asks why "all taxpayers, who paid for the building and operation of the roads, should support a minority who want to ride for free." HOV-3 users "pay" by making the accomodation of sharing a ride or riding a bus. The lanes are available to anyone during all non-HOV hours, for free. That won't be the case with Tool Roads. I mean, Toll Roads.
Ole Spongey ain't rich, but I can tell you that when it comes down to paying $1/minute for day care late fees, or missing a meeting with my boss's boss, $40 or $50 isn't going to keep me off the Fool Road lanes. NoSUV cannot argue with the fact that only some of us have the resources to pay whatever we need for convenience. The working poor, as they are called, will be stuck in the old regular lanes because the price of the Full Roads, I mean Toll Roads, will be set very, very high to modulate traffic and keep it flowing.
From my oh-so-scientific research, most Smugs are not mutated Slugs, but refugees from the regular lanes. I've even heard of a few hybrid owners picking up slugs. A few. They are definitely good people. This distinguishes them from the social misfits and outcasts, the hypocritical Greenies and Whinies, who make up most of the Smug so-called gene pool.
Finally, what can one say about Poor Old Gridlock? He's so clueless about what is happening on the roads it has become a running joke. Did you know that for years he worked out of his home? And he was writing about commuting! Now he works at a satellite office cause he needs secretarial support. What does he know about HOV?
If you're out there, Gridlock, I publicly dare you to meet me at the 18th Street line at Horner Road at 6:30 and, for one week, slug with us to work and back.
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Posted By: GerardDW
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2005 at 8:50am
I have to agree with SpongeBob on this one. I mean, really now, what would happen to the gridlock if everyone in both the HOV and regular lanes, had three? In that case, even the regular lanes would move at the posted speed limit or higher. It is not the separate lanes that make slugging a good deal, it is the fact that the resulting traffic is the amount left after taking away at least two cars out of three potential cars on the road. Who paid the taxes should not be the deciding factor, it should be those who are actually doing something positive to reduce the congestion. I have never once driven my car into DC from Virginia, I have always either taken the VRE, the bus or slugged. The first time I take my own car into DC will be when I need it to clean out my cube at work when I transfer out of this area, and you can bet that I will pick up a pair of sluggers both on the way and on the way home as well.
Doug
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Posted By: Baz
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2005 at 9:30am
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Whoa...Im at home today - on my forth beeer. I jus read Dickboyds posting backwards (fruum last word to the first). It really makes more sinse this waye. Whoa...cool!!
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2005 at 12:39pm
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Why NoSUV wants to pay a toll when he can use the HOV lanes for free when the restricions are not in place??????NO SENSE!!!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2005 at 9:08pm
You know you must have a good arguement with all of the heated response!
DickBoyd: For how many years has the pulpit been there? Look at the regular lanes and tell me how effective it's been.
GetHome: Hmmm. Pay for the roads but be told you can't use them. My point exactly.
Sponge: again, you've made my point. Thanks. With a toll, you can make that meeting. Without? Maybe, maybe not.
Gerald: you're a (closet) socialist. Pay taxes and never see the benefit to yourself. Send me the money instead.
SoCal never used to have toll roads. In the areas where they have them, the gridlock is eased. If you want to go fast, you pay for it.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2005 at 12:54pm
I was going to say that NoSUV blithely ignores the fact that most people won't be able to afford HOT. But he doesn't ignore that fact: he's just such a stupid short-sighted pig he doesn't care.
Most people do not have an infinitely expandable budget able to accomodate a very high commuting cost. They will find it very hard to to use the road their taxes paid for, since the High Occupancy (which is how they "pay" now) concept will be eliminated.
As I wrote earlier, if the price is set high enough to discourage use in order to keep the lanes unclogged, then that is a deliberate and specific act by the state to exclude the use of a public facility by citizens of modest means. It is a government policy designed EXPLICITLY and EXACTLY to produce hardship on our poorest citizens.
The Toll Roads concept is un-American. It is wrong at its core.
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 15 Apr 2005 at 4:49pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]You know you must have a good arguement with all of the heated response!
DickBoyd: For how many years has the pulpit been there? Look at the regular lanes and tell me how effective it's been.
<>
For how many years has the pulpit (publicity) been there?
Never.
What has been touted as publicity for casual car pooling has been more of a poaching effort by VRE or METRO or even Omniride. In the early to mid seventies several churches encouraged parishoners to use the church lots for forming car pools. Many of the church groups rented school buildings for services. For whatever reason, the churches discouraged using their lots for casual car pools. Some at the time suspected liability or insurance issues. But the self same lots were available for parking if you rode "public" transit.
I have never seen an "official" support of HOV on the reversible lanes of Shirley Highway. The latest TPRAC minutes killed any effort to review HOV policy on the reversible lanes.
How effective has the publicity been? Not very. On a numerical scale, about 50%. Even so, not bad for mostly word of mouth.
In my opinion, the drive alones believe they are being put upon because there is all that "unused" space on the reversible lanes. VDOT, nor any other "official" says otherwise. Capacity is still the watchword. Freeflow should be the goal.
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2005 at 6:15am
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Sponge. RLD, perhaps you missed my earlier posting on HOT. Have toll roads set with high enough toll to keep the lanes unclogged, but start with the premise that HOV-3 is free. Still get the throughput you boast; still allow those who don't or can't pay the opportunity to go for free. BUT you also allow those who need to get to Sponge's meeting to pay to get there faster. Could even graduate the toll for HOV-3 = free, HOV-2 = $2, SOV = $6; that encourages at least SOME carpooling, which the current system fails to do. After all, shouldn't neighbors when only 2 get some sort of break? Or are those lanes only built for slugs?
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2005 at 9:09am
If NoSUV would go back and read the posts of the last nine months on this issue (well, that IS asking a bit much [;)]) he would see all the obvious ideas have already been raised and answered.
The sticking point is there is no system short of a human being at every entrance that will allow HOV-3 on the Toll Roads for free. It simply is not possible, and a moment's candid reflection will make that clear.
So the obvious outcome of this proposal is No More Free HOV. It will become a true full-time toll road. It is anti-ridesharing.
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2005 at 1:28pm
NoSUV You make me want to scream until I am purple, with your money flushing attitude!! HOT 6$! Are you #%$^*&(^&%&*()&*%$$!
You can use your teeny tiny one sided imagination to fill in the blanks.
For those of us who clip coupons, shop for discounts, bring lunch instead of buying it, wish you would just take your money bags attitude and stick it!
:'}
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Posted By: VA_Slugger
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2005 at 2:39pm
Posted By: koakui
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2005 at 2:53pm
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Well NoSUV doesn't understand the concept I don't think. He mentions toll roads in California but those are seperate and apart from the highway system. They are not integrated nor do they have HOV. HOV is in the regular lanes. The toll is completely separate. Toll in this area is a very very bad idea. It won't work.
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Posted By: Sticky Bandaid
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2005 at 3:28pm
quote:
Originally posted by getmehome pweeze
[br]NoSUV You make me want to scream until I am purple, with your money flushing attitude!! HOT 6$! Are you #%$^*&(^&%&*()&*%$$!
You can use your teeny tiny one sided imagination to fill in the blanks.
For those of us who clip coupons, shop for discounts, bring lunch instead of buying it, wish you would just take your money bags attitude and stick it!
:'}
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Posted By: Sticky Bandaid
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2005 at 3:33pm
quote:
Originally posted by getmehome pweeze
[br]NoSUV You make me want to scream until I am purple, with your money flushing attitude!! HOT 6$! Are you #%$^*&(^&%&*()&*%$$!
You can use your teeny tiny one sided imagination to fill in the blanks.
For those of us who clip coupons, shop for discounts, bring lunch instead of buying it, wish you would just take your money bags attitude and stick it!
:'}
Getmehome pweeze -- to disagree with another's opinion does not require vulgarity.
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2005 at 6:35pm
gmhp,
You really don't need to be so polite and politically correct in your responses. We slugs are thick-skinned and can take it. [;)] We're old enough for a PG rating. Go ahead and tell us how you really feel. [^]
As for me, I think toll roads really suck pond water! But that's just me! HOV forever! [:D]
Keep on sluggin' ! [:)]
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2005 at 7:47am
Good to see everyone catches up on their reading! I dont consider what I wrote as vulgar, just true frustration for a closed minded individual.
:'}
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2005 at 7:14am
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The Coronado Bay Bridge was an integrated HOV/toll road. HOV free, SOV pay.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2005 at 10:39am
The pay per mile issue is one we've not addressed.
Are the people in Stafford and Fredericksburg going to pay the same toll as the people in Alexandria who get on at Duke Street? Has Fluor done a study that shows how much a person getting on at the Massaponax entrance will pay to exit at 14th St?
Pro-HOT'ers talk about "nominal" charges of "up to" $4 one way. For whom? They never say. Because the reality is, toll charges would have to be very, very high even for short trips to keep the people of Alexandria and Arlington from clogging the lanes to get into the city. In other words, an Arlington commuter will have to pay at least $4 to go 3 miles... will a person from southern Prince William County have to pay $40 to go 30 miles?
I'm telling you, the more we look at this thing the worse it gets. We have until the fall to drive public opinion against it. In the meantime, we need to get on the horn to AAA. Can't believe they're in favor of toll roads.
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2005 at 1:27pm
Thank you for clarifying that, SpongeBob. I don't think people had it clear on that issue. They think they're going to pay $4 a trip and it's not that bad. However, if you look at the whole picture, paying $0.80/mile it's a lot of money for those of us who live far.
They don't understand that HOV restrictions only run for 3 hours in the morning and in the evening. It doesn't make any sense to convert HOV lanes, that are free for those who comply to HOV restrictions, the rest of the day and weekends, into HOT lanes.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2005 at 10:12pm
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Unless you are in the regular lanes, and then it makes all the sense in the world.
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2005 at 11:36pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]Unless you are in the regular lanes, and then it makes all the sense in the world.
Can I review the bidding?
Regular lanes: 2,400 vehicles per lane per hour. Three effective lanes due to downstream choke points. Occupancy abut 1.2 people per vehicle. Stop and go traffic. Elapsed time corresponding to a steady speed of about 45 MPH. Fifteen mile trip takes 20 minutes. One day in twenty with unpredictable delay greater than fifteen minutes. People served: about 8,640 people per hour.
Reversible lanes: 1,500 to 1,800 vehicles per lane per hour. Elapsed time coresponding to a steady speed of posted limits. No unpredicatable delay. Two effective lanes. Occupancy about 3.0 per vehicle. Fifteen mile trip takes 15 minutes. People served: about 9,000 people per hour.
Was the stated problem to get ALL the lanes flowing freely?
Boost occupancy to 1.6 in the regular lanes. Target 1,800 vehicles per lane per hour in the regular lanes. Result? 8,640 people per hour at the posted speed. One day in twenty predictable delay of 5 minutes. Keep the target of 3.0 people per vehicle in the reversible lanes at 1,500 vehicles per lane per hour.
For a nominal 15 mile trip, this represents about 13,680 fewer people hours spent on the road. Roughly seven work years or 2 people years. For an individual that is about 15 hours per year less spent in commuting. Roughly two work days per year. About the time it takes to read two long novels or study for your next promotion. Besides, on those days that you are a passenger, you take back the full commuting time for constructive use.
The cost? Getting more passengers. What does it take to get more passengers? More and better parking for passengers. Attitude change.
So what is a commuter really paying for by driving alone in the regular lanes? Twenty minutes of solitude without another human being within 50 feet? A feeling of power by having complete control (?) of 4,000 pounds of metal? A feeling of superiority of having the luxury of wasting 5 minutes per trip? The feeling of freedom of having a magic carpet to go anywhere at any time? The feeling of having arrived by having an employer provided parking space worth $300 per month?
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: Baz
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2005 at 7:02am
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I just dont understand how you can use these random numbers in your thinking. What happens to these numbers when in one or two years, Woodbridge completes the building of 2,000 more homes and these new people are now on I95 or Route 1 - now theyre included in your numbers, basically throwing everything off. I mean, its nice to do the math NOW - like all the home developers and council members like to do and think they have a grasp on the problem, but its all relative when the influx of homes and new immigrants are swamping the area faster than we can deal with getting the tranportation problem fixed. I say give it up! Im just glad we all have a finite number of years to live on this planet.
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2005 at 6:50pm
quote:
Originally posted by Baz
[br]I just dont understand how you can use these random numbers in your thinking. What happens to these numbers when in one or two years, Woodbridge completes the building of 2,000 more homes and these new people are now on I95 or Route 1 - now theyre included in your numbers, basically throwing everything off. I mean, its nice to do the math NOW - like all the home developers and council members like to do and think they have a grasp on the problem, but its all relative when the influx of homes and new immigrants are swamping the area faster than we can deal with getting the tranportation problem fixed. I say give it up! Im just glad we all have a finite number of years to live on this planet.
Where were you and your crystal ball when land use restrictions were eased? Random numbers? Maybe. But still the numbers have 25% growth in the reversible lanes. Increase HOV on the reversible lanes to 4.
Growth on the regular lanes is about 35%. Go from 1.6 per car to 4 per car. At some point the anti-jitney laws are rescinded. Then expect to see "mom and pop" operation of 10 passengers in a 15 passenger van as a way to pay for the kid's college.
Then there is always the concept of alternate capital. Move the Nation's capital around like they do the Olympics. I nominate Alaska's National Wildlife Refuge as the location of the first alternate capital. The site would move on a four year cycle. The state that loses the lottery gets to host the federal government for four years. And they get to pay for it too. The idea is to get people to committing to infrastructure investment.
Yes, you are correct. The problem is getting passengers. Parking? fuggettaboutit. That land is more valuable to build houses on. OK, so the expenditure for services is more than the taxes collected. I won't be there when the bill comes due. Another legacy for our children.
If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2005 at 12:31pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]Unless you are in the regular lanes, and then it makes all the sense in the world.
I understand that NoSUV but that's what they choose to do every day. They could easily use the HOV lanes but they don't want to. So, everybody will suffer because of them?
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2005 at 1:49pm
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Who's "everybody"? Are you saying that the people in the regular lanes are nobody?
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2005 at 4:08pm
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I said "everybody" because if HOT gets implemented, "everybody" will have to pay even on weekends. Got it?
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Posted By: GerardDW
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2005 at 8:26am
This subject is moot for me as I have decided that an hour plus of commuting each way is too much, which includes the savings of using the HOV lane as a slug and bus rider. NoSUV believes that allowing more people would be a good thing because the single occupants don't like watching the HOV line go faster. At the same time, many people want to exclude clean air vehicles due to present crowding in those HOV lanes. Having lived for 10 plus years in So Cal, I saw what the HOT lanes did, along with the Sentri lanes at the San Ysidro border crossing. Pay for use can work, but it sure does not lessen the volume, it eventually becomes just as conjested at the lanes it was supposed to bypass.
HOV lanes were created for the purpose of encouraging single riders to carpool and to allow public transportation to work more efficiently, which also encourages ridership in multiple rider vehicles. To allow single rider vehicles is a pretty shady move, it basically says that all of us will no longer will get what we originally wanted and agreed to. It will become something the politicians or a special interest group have decided that they can subvert to their own profit. If it get changed, get used to both the HOV and regular lanes looking exactly the same, only the those in the HOV lanes will be paying for the priviledge of being separated from us unwashed masses.
In any case, the only 100% guaranteed solution to this problem is to find a better, less expensive, and less crowded place to live. I am doing so, and this is my last week of facing this traffic monstrosity. Even So Cal was better than this, and that was pretty bad! No, I have decided that living well is more than a matter of money, it is how much you can do with the money you get and how much time you have to do it. By leaving, I give up about $12,000 in pay, but I gain the ability to buy a house for less than $150,000, a commute that takes about 15 minutes and waaaaay less stress than I have in my current daily trip to work and back.
Incidentally, NoSUV called me a socialist in my earlier post, to which my wife is still giggling over. I have been a conservative for a long time (decades even), and have supported politicians and policies that fit that description during that time. I also believe that if we as voters bought something for a specific purpose, it should be used for that purpose until we as voters agree that another purpose is better. If we vote for that, cool. If it happens because some political group makes a decision, then it is an evil kind of reverse Robin Hood scenario. It takes from all of us normal folks (who have enough sense to share a ride) to give to the wealthy. Which will be a requirement in order to pay the $$$ for each inbound and outbound trip on a daily basis, presumably maintaining their single rider mentality. That would be particulary true in this case, since a ton of money is sure to change hands should it be changed to the HOT system.
Doug
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Posted By: VA4ver
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2005 at 10:10am
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Where 'ya moving???? I dream of finding someplace where I can live where I don't have to travel an hour out of my way (even though I only live 19 miles from my work place [:(])
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Posted By: GerardDW
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2005 at 11:57am
We are moving down to Ft. Benning, located just outside Columbus, GA. More than 600 houses costing less than $150,000 currently available, taxes about half as much as Virginia and Atlanta is only 90 minutes away (for when you have a big city craving). Plenty of good colleges (Auburn is less than 40 miles away) and lots of lakes and rivers around to play on. The Gulf is about 4 hours away, the mountains about the same. The house we are looking at is $127,900, 3 beds and 2 baths, greatroom, fireplace, deck in the back and on 1.5 acres (my house payment will be less than I currently pay for rent). About 15 minutes from the Ft. Benning gate. Taking nothing away from the Washington, DC metropolis for excitement, great jobs and nice people, this hombre is heading south!
Doug
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Posted By: VA4ver
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2005 at 1:23pm
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Some of my friends have moved down South. They like it. Slower pace.
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 28 Apr 2005 at 2:58pm
Seems like everyone is moving to NC.
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