If not HOT, then what?
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Topic: If not HOT, then what?
Posted By: SpongeBob
Subject: If not HOT, then what?
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 9:21am
No one kvetches about toll roads more than the Sponge, but kvetching ain't gonna get us nowhere: We need alternatives to propose.
We can't "Just Say No" to toll roads without saying how we could improve traffic. I'm preparing a position paper for the Committee to Save HOV and we need everyone's best ideas.
Nobody knows these roads like we do. Nobody understands the unique dynamics of 95/395 and the psychology of NoVA commuters like we do. Nobody is better qualified than we are to come up with solutions.
So what are they?
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Replies:
Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 10:41am
Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 11:16am
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Thanks, KC. Real helpful. I'll be sure and include it in my report.
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 12:04pm
There are lots of potential alternatives to the two plans that have been put forth. The big problem is the current mentality that it is either one of these two proposals or nothing. So VDOT needs to step back a couple of giant steps and put all of the other options on the table as well. That is just plain common sense.
The second point I would like to make is that we need to have a set of principals first. In my opinion it is as simple as "Leave successful HOV lanes alone - Dont touch them in any way." The only excess capacity we have now will be needed for future HOV growth and that is that! That is the starting point. I am not willing to start looking at options where we have SOVs or any toll payers on this road. I think this should be federal law - regarding conversions of HOVs.
Of course there are other options. These include additional sources of tax revenue, regional tax districts, other pure toll road proposals that dont harm the HOV, etc. In a couple of hours I could come up with a bunch.
We have a conundrum here because we don't know how this is going to play out. Is VDOT committed to these two proposals or nothing? If that is the case, then I think we do have to put forth specific alternatives. The problem is, it is like giving up on our principals if we start proposing things like limiting HOT to X number of permitted SOVs or limiting it to HOV2, etc.
Perhaps one answer would be to actually come up with a list of alternatives that result in leaving the 95 HOV as is so there is room for future growth. Then have the other ones in reserve if it becomes obviousl that there will be HOT as proposed if we do nothing.
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 12:55pm
Here a couple of options:
1) Make the trains a more viable option: cost and time make the VRE a less attractive option for commuters. Lowering the cost and making the trains run a bit faster would take more commuters off the road.
2) Get the Metro down to eastern Prince William County. This might be the cheapest way to get more people on the rails. Getting it over (or under) the Occoquan won't be easy or cheap, though. Still, running it to the Horner Road lot and then to the Potomac Mills mall would be great for everyone. I know this will cost a lot of money, but it has to be done eventually.
3) Explore changing the times that HOV is open. If HOV were only restricted from 6 to 8:30 in the morning, wouldn't that alleviate some of the mainline congestion? What would be the impact on HOV congestion, though?
4) Look at ways to encourage telecommuting. Simply giving a tax credit or some other inducement for telecommuting would work wonders to get more people working from home. Employer inducements will work, too, but with many employers located in DC these may not work as well.
5) Experiment with HOV-3 and HOV-4. As a way to limit the impact of further growth, maybe we could require HOV-4 for cars that enter the HOV from points south of Stafford, or south of Dumfries, etc. Points north could still enter with 3 people in the car. Maybe this won't work, but we should be creative.
6) Extend the HOV to points south of Dumfries. This is a no-brainer. As more and more people move to the Stafford/F-burg area, we need to extend the lanes as far south as possible.
Can't really think of any others right now.
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 1:04pm
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Excelent ideas, cdatkins!!!
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Posted By: shahedC
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 1:19pm
I agree with most of your points, even the costly ones. They may be costly options, but they're good options.
Except for the HOV-4 rule based on entry point. You can't really enforce that one. A lot of people who can't get that 4th person from Dumfries can always lie about their entry point once they get further up north.
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 2:09pm
quote:
Originally posted by shahedC
[br]I agree with most of your points, even the costly ones. They may be costly options, but they're good options.
Except for the HOV-4 rule based on entry point. You can't really enforce that one. A lot of people who can't get that 4th person from Dumfries can always lie about their entry point once they get further up north.
You would have to enforce it at the entry point. Every other week, you put a cop at southern entry points and ticket every car that tries to enter without 4 people. You would write the law to just make it illegal to enter at certain points with less than 4 people.
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 13 Jul 2005 at 2:12pm
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7) Choose one day every week (Friday?) and just open the HOV to everyone, morning and evening. No restrictions on use. This will cause some slugs to drive, but some will work from home or take the VRE. It also is an overture to those that don't use HOV, for whatever reason, and might lessen regular lane congestion.
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Posted By: Luddite
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2005 at 9:21am
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The collapse of HOV is a symptom of poorly-regulated development. Treating a symptom is not usually a good idea. Must fix the root cause. 333 new apartments in Woodbridge Hilda Barg is praising will likely add 500 cars to the roads. This is the sort of poorly-regulated development that directly caused the collapse of HOV. You know I cringe when I open my mailbox and see the Old Bridge Observer which often contains articles about new fill-in housing projects in Occoquan and Woodbridge. Stop worrying about HOV hours or HOV-4 or Hybrids. Look to change your county supervisors. I read this week that developers and builders have formed a new advocacy group. There's some good news folks. As if they weren't aligned too closely with our Supervisors already. Sorry for the rant.
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2005 at 9:48am
Luddite:
I strongly support private property rights (especially in the wake of the Supreme Court's Kelo decision) so I can't advocate electing supervisors who will use the county's power to stop private landownders from developing their property.
Expansion is a way of life in northern Virginia. Stopping development is no more practical a solution to sprawl than freezing government hiring. Both would work, but neither are practical.
I'm all for treating the disease, but I'm not sure northern Virginians think development is a disease.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2005 at 10:11am
Before we veer too far off-topic, let's thank Luddite, admit the wisdom of his/her view on development (as the root cause of increased traffic) and return to my plea for ideas.
People are thinking outside the box (no HOV on Fridays, what a concept!) and that is just what we need.
(Now, as a sidebar to Luddite's point: the geniuses at Environmental Defense will tell you that development does not cause increased traffic, but roads do. They actually claim that building a road incents people to drive on it. They draw up graphs which show that adding a road adds to traffic. Right. Like we wake up each morning with a deep wanderlust that only new pavement can cure. What balderdash. No wonder they got fooled into endorsing toll roads. They think tolls will force people on to transit. Ha!)
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Posted By: SuzAnne
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2005 at 12:54pm
RLD had a few suggestions. IT says, use tax money (part of the now $2B surplus) to build 3 lane HOV-4 with parking. Costs -- ~$1B+. Benefits -- increase taxes from NOVA work pays for road in 12 years.
See what he wrote at http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2129
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2005 at 2:02pm
Sponge, I think that the alternative needs to be multifaceted - there is no 1 killer plan (except doubling the number of roads) that is going to get to a better answer to reduce the OVERALL congestion. Some ideas that will help:
- Have a method to balance the congestion by allowing some SOV into HOV. Current discriminator is hybrids, but other discriminators can be SUVs, pickup trucks, etc.
- Keep the roads free until entering the District, then charge $40/day to park, with the District collecting the revenue to improve roads (That's what it was like in London - had to commute because you couldn't afford to park. London taxed the parking spots so heavily that companies couldn't afford to have them.)
- Have the state pay companies to have their workers telecommute. Payment in the form of tax breaks.
- Request the state approach the Federal Government with a plea to stagger the work day, with some Departments (State, Commerce, Interior) beginning on Pacific time.
Good luck.
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Posted By: AveMaria
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2005 at 4:25pm
I applaud Luddite's suggestions. Especially:
1) Make the trains a more viable option
2) Get the Metro down to eastern Prince William County.
Either of these options would take hundreds of cars off the commuting highways.
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2005 at 4:31pm
quote:
Originally posted by AveMaria
[br]I applaud Luddite's suggestions. Especially:
1) Make the trains a more viable option
2) Get the Metro down to eastern Prince William County.
Either of these options would take hundreds of cars off the commuting highways.
Hey..those were my suggestions! :-)
Luddite suggested that we elect supervisors that will curtail development.
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2005 at 4:35pm
quote:
- Have the state pay companies to have their workers telecommute. Payment in the form of tax breaks.
I thought about this two, and the problems are:
1. A lot of the telecommuters are government workers, and you can;t give a tax break to the feds.
2. A lot of the non-government telecommuters work in DC offices, and DC companies in all likelihood don't file a tax return, and hence VA cannot give them a tax break.
In all likelihood, the best option is giving the VA telecommuters a tax break, which will give them an incentive to ask their employers to let them telecommute.
Or, some weird compromise where DC gets to levy a commuter tax in exchange for giving a tax break to DC employers who allow telecommuting.
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Posted By: CallmeMrSlug
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2005 at 9:21pm
I think there are two very easy solutions to the traffic problem and neither are out of the box ideas. Expand the main traffic lanes to at least four lanes, and preferably five lanes each way. Then add an additional lane to the HOV without the toll concept. Politicians these days are afraid of taxes, and so they don't propose spending the money to expand the existing roads. So if you want this traffic madness to end, find a candidate who proposes to spend the necessary money to fix the problem, and enthusiastically support him or her. We are not going to solve this traffic gridlock until the money is spent to fix the exisiting roads, and if you think otherwise, you are fooling yourselves.
Adding a metro is not the answer. If it was, everyone would drive to Springfield and use the existing Metro. The problem is that the metro is about a 45 minute trip from Springfield. The VRE will always be a failure unless they build their own railroad tracks so that they can control the flow of the trains. Telecommuting is a good concept, but it is not something that will solve the whole traffic problem because, in order to be effective, a worker really needs to be in the office at least three days a week, or at least I think most managers believe that.
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Posted By: crazekat09
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2005 at 10:06pm
Here are some of my ideas:
1) Restrict hybrids to HOV-2 at least. If that doesn't work to clear up some of the traffic in the HOV, then raise the restrictions to HOV-4
2) Extend VRE further South (to Richmond) and Metro to Tysons (for commuters heading out that way), making it possible for one to travel without car basically along the I-95 corridor.
3) Extending the HOV lanes to Fredericksburg like someone mention earlier, while adding more commuter lots
4) Adding a bypass around the metro area, which can follow Route 301 up to Route 50 in Maryland and beyond, western part of the area near I-270, creating another Potomac River crossing, or running parallel to I-95/Route 1, much like the BW Parkway. Although this proposal has a lot of contraversy surrounding it, this could relieve some of the heavy congestion on the road, because a lot of out-of-town travelers use the road too.
The last three, require, a lot of $$$, which area residents aren't willing to pay, which creates another problem in itself. But letting a private company finance the bypass (like the Dulles Greenway), could free up money for other projects (if a referendum is passed), like the HOV extension or the VRE extension to Richmond.
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2005 at 12:11am
quote:
Originally posted by AveMaria
[br]I applaud Luddite's suggestions. Especially:
1) Make the trains a more viable option
2) Get the Metro down to eastern Prince William County.
Either of these options would take hundreds of cars off the commuting highways.
Be careful of what you ask for, you just might get it.
Think about it. Would METRO or trains really get cars off the commuting highways?
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: wdossel
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2005 at 9:59am
A DC-Baltimore I-95 bypass that starts south of F-burg to get the "pass throughs" (trucks and tourists) off the local roads?
- Will
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Posted By: AveMaria
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2005 at 10:02am
Dick,
Is that a trick question?
...still thinking....[|)]
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Posted By: AveMaria
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2005 at 10:02am
Dick,
Is that a trick question?
...still thinking....[|)]
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2005 at 9:23am
quote:
Originally posted by dickboyd
[br]quote:
Originally posted by AveMaria
[br]I applaud Luddite's suggestions. Especially:
1) Make the trains a more viable option
2) Get the Metro down to eastern Prince William County.
Either of these options would take hundreds of cars off the commuting highways.
Be careful of what you ask for, you just might get it.
Think about it. Would METRO or trains really get cars off the commuting highways?
dickboyd@aol.com
Speaking personally, I would rather take the metro in than slug. When I lived in Lorton I would take the metro from springfield to work everyday. There have to be others that would do the same.
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Posted By: tdar20
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2005 at 1:31pm
For those of you that are opposed to new development......when did you get here in this area or were you born here? Kind of hard to oppose growth when most of us (including me .... here 10 years) are fromother places as well.
quote:
Originally posted by Luddite
[br]The collapse of HOV is a symptom of poorly-regulated development. Treating a symptom is not usually a good idea. Must fix the root cause. 333 new apartments in Woodbridge Hilda Barg is praising will likely add 500 cars to the roads. This is the sort of poorly-regulated development that directly caused the collapse of HOV. You know I cringe when I open my mailbox and see the Old Bridge Observer which often contains articles about new fill-in housing projects in Occoquan and Woodbridge. Stop worrying about HOV hours or HOV-4 or Hybrids. Look to change your county supervisors. I read this week that developers and builders have formed a new advocacy group. There's some good news folks. As if they weren't aligned too closely with our Supervisors already. Sorry for the rant.
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Posted By: defender
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2005 at 4:08pm
Perhaps all is not lost. I encourage you -- support our community. Send the politicians a message -- a STRONG MESSAGE.
When a private company proposes to build new infrastructure, albeit on public right of way, such as the construction of new HOT lanes as proposed for the Beltway, it is quite different than the overlay of tolls on existing HOV lanes, as proposed for the I-95/I-395 corridor. The distinction is critical, even as HOT supporters claim their opponents do not understand HOT technology. When stripped naked, superimposing HOT on an existing taxpayer-financed HOV system simply allows higher income people to travel faster without carpooling, much to the detriment of current users.
If existing HOV lanes were underutilized, tolls might be a reasonable tool for generating new revenue to expand the exiting road. But there is no excess capacity on the I-95/I-395 route where violators and bottlenecks are a norm. No HOT technology demonstrates that it adequately addresses such problems and remain unable to raise tolls on single occupancy vehicles high enough to prevent congestion -- forcing them to also levy tolls on carpoolers.
We miss dinner because of traffic. We carpool with co-workers, and we slug or pick up slug. The community of carpooling and ridesharing commuters directly reduce traffic congestion and pollution. It is Northern Virginia's grassroots success stories.
Now, after years of neglect, and perhaps fearing retribution at the polls, some of our elected officials are falling all over themselves to demonstrate that they are doing something, anything, about transportation. But grasping for any option is not the same as finding a viable and reasonable solution. We need real transportation solutions that reduce the nmber of cars on the road and encourages carpooling and ridesharing. Not a system that rewards, single, toll-paying drivers.
The current Virginia House of Delegates representative says that it is too early to judge the affect of HOT on the carpooling community. I say that her answer is BS and to that, I encorage all to support Earnie Porta. Earnie has strongly and unequivically said NO to HOT.
I encourage you -- support our community. Send the politicians a message. Support those who support HOV -- support Earnie Porta.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2005 at 4:30pm
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Defender, an adjacent thread asks about the history of the Shirley Highway project - you might want to give it a glance. Essentially, the "HOV" lanes were not constructed for that purpose, but for express lane bus service. Perhaps we need to go back to what was intended, and remove ALL cars from those lanes. Those on the busses would REALLY see their commute time reduced, and, just like you propose with the less helpful HOV-3 solution, the regular lanes would either be clogged or drivers/riders get with the program.
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Posted By: 122582
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2005 at 8:17pm
Then what?
Naked Guatamelan van pools!
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Posted By: defender
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 8:48am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]Defender, an adjacent thread asks about the history of the Shirley Highway project - you might want to give it a glance. Essentially, the "HOV" lanes were not constructed for that purpose, but for express lane bus service. . . ..
Dick Boyd says that your imagination is good. See the related thread regarding revisionist history.
Regarding the use of the "express lanes," there is a body of 35,000 [VDoT number quoted in TWP] ride-sharing, car pooling community [RLD's term for all, including slugs] who currently use the road in a reasonable and sensible manner. There is another group of one or two detractors and hybrid drivers of SOVs who constantly drone on about how good HOT is and that they want HOT, especially if they cannot drive solo after next year.
I side with the 35,000. How about you?
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 9:26am
quote:
Originally posted by defender
[br]quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]Defender, an adjacent thread asks about the history of the Shirley Highway project - you might want to give it a glance. Essentially, the "HOV" lanes were not constructed for that purpose, but for express lane bus service. . . ..
Dick Boyd says that your imagination is good. See the related thread regarding revisionist history.
Regarding the use of the "express lanes," there is a body of 35,000 [VDoT number quoted in TWP] ride-sharing, car pooling community [RLD's term for all, including slugs] who currently use the road in a reasonable and sensible manner. There is another group of one or two detractors and hybrid drivers of SOVs who constantly drone on about how good HOT is and that they want HOT, especially if they cannot drive solo after next year.
I side with the 35,000. How about you?
Keep reading that thread - and read the link along with the 1974 published article. Article clearly points out that HOV started as an "exemption" similar to that now given to hybrids. It shows that mass transit had clear advantages - which, by the way, is what other major metropolitan areas world wide use. I side with the millions.
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Posted By: defender
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 9:44am
http://www.potomacnews.com/scripts/isapi_srun.dll/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WPN%2FMGArticle%
Maybe we should "help" Virginia by spending some rainy day money on the HOV and NOT HAVE HOT.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 10:34am
Quiet, both of you.
This thread is looking for IDEAS.
Continue the same old debates on the same old threads they usually are on. I could give a flip about what the lanes were 35 years ago: I'm worried about what they are going to be like 35 months from NOW!
The one idea gleaned from recent posts was to go all-bus.
Any more ideas? Please???
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 11:48am
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All bus....yeah, that's gonna happen. HOV-40. LMAO
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Posted By: defender
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 11:55am
quote:
Originally posted by SpongeBob
[br]Quiet, both of you.
This thread is looking for IDEAS.
Continue the same old debates on the same old threads they usually are on. I could give a flip about what the lanes were 35 years ago: I'm worried about what they are going to be like 35 months from NOW!
The one idea gleaned from recent posts was to go all-bus.
Any more ideas? Please???
That was an idea. Contact your VA Senator and Delegate and demand part of the $2B surplus [according to Frederick] to improve HOV.
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2005 at 4:41pm
quote:
Originally posted by cdatkins
[br]Originally posted by dickboyd
[br]Originally posted by AveMaria
[br]I applaud Luddite's suggestions. Especially:
Speaking personally, I would rather take the metro in than slug. When I lived in Lorton I would take the metro from springfield to work everyday. There have to be others that would do the same.
What things make METRO more attractive than slugging for you? Trip times? Passenger comfort? Cost? Privacy?
What things make Slugging acceptable? What would slugging have to do to make it competitive with METRO?
Have you considered living in Montgomery County? If so, what was the deciding factor to live in northern Virginia?
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: cdatkins
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2005 at 9:52am
quote:
Originally posted by dickboyd
[br]quote:
Originally posted by cdatkins
[br]Originally posted by dickboyd
[br]Originally posted by AveMaria
[br]I applaud Luddite's suggestions. Especially:
Speaking personally, I would rather take the metro in than slug. When I lived in Lorton I would take the metro from springfield to work everyday. There have to be others that would do the same.
What things make METRO more attractive than slugging for you? Trip times? Passenger comfort? Cost? Privacy?
What things make Slugging acceptable? What would slugging have to do to make it competitive with METRO?
Have you considered living in Montgomery County? If so, what was the deciding factor to live in northern Virginia?
dickboyd@aol.com
METRO's advantages are:
1. More comfortable (at least, more consistently comfortable).
2. No loud music interfering with my reading.
3. Smoother ride.
4. A ride that is, with rare exceptions, consistently available at all times of the day, not just between 6-9 and 3-6.
SLUGGING's advantages are:
1. Faster trip (usually).
2. Cheaper trip.
We live in Virginia because it has lower taxes (generally) and because it's government and politicians are generally more in line with our political point of view.
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2005 at 4:38pm
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by cdatkins
<<>
METRO's advantages [for cdatkins] are:
1. More comfortable (at least, more consistently comfortable).
2. No loud music interfering with my reading.
3. Smoother ride.
4. A ride that is, with rare exceptions, consistently available at all times of the day, not just between 6-9 and 3-6.
SLUGGING's advantages [for cdatkins] are:
1. Faster trip (usually).
2. Cheaper trip.
We live in Virginia because it has lower taxes (generally) and because it's government and politicians are generally more in line with our political point of view.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you, cdatkins.
cdatkins' reply is only one data point. But the most valid because it is a statement of what characteristics at least one commuter would like to see. A real live (even if solicited) commuter.
What are the advantages and disadvantages of various modes of commuting for you other sluggers? Answers in your own words, please. Papers will be graded according to ink density. Extra credit for neologisms and handwriting. [8D]
Why would METRO be considered more comfortable than slugging? Is that METRO train? Or does it include METRO bus? Or is it the wait out in the elements? What do slugs have to do to make the slug ride more comfortable? [?]
Smoother ride? Must be talking about METRO train, or has never ridden with Baz or pweeze. [:D]
Slugs have elapsed time and cost on their side. How can slugs reduce the elapsed time for slugging even lower than what it is now? More parking places? Better access between parking and the reversible lanes? Near real time ride matching? Should slugging elapsed commuter time be the gold standard for comparison with other commute modes? How can faster slug tips be changed to "consistently" from "usually"?
A ride that is available 24/7? I agree, but with condidtions. A "mass transit" system should be designed, built and operated for base load, not peak load. Do I need to expand on that thought? If a guaranteed ride home fills the bill, why dedicate a train?
Cheaper trip? Definitely. But do we really have the cost numbers associated with the other modes to make a quantified assessment? What is a baseline per cost mile for an automobile? Sixty cents a mile? Or should the drivers time be factored in? If drivers time should be factored in, what is a fair labor rate? Forty dollars an hour? This line of thought goes to presenting slugs as an alternative to VRE coaches.
If a Fluor or a Clark were to suddenly notice that the greatest commodity in rush hour is empty seats and that those empty seats could be sold at a much higher profit than VRE or METRO seats, where would this discussion be headed?
Hint, hint, business opportunity. Ownership of bridge not required.
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2005 at 5:02pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]Defender, an adjacent thread asks about the history of the Shirley Highway project - you might want to give it a glance. Essentially, the "HOV" lanes were not constructed for that purpose, but for express lane bus service. Perhaps we need to go back to what was intended, and remove ALL cars from those lanes. Those on the busses would REALLY see their commute time reduced, and, just like you propose with the less helpful HOV-3 solution, the regular lanes would either be clogged or drivers/riders get with the program.
One thing that bus riders had against the "express" bus service was that the buses meandered around the neighborhood picking up passengers. Elapsed time from portal to portal was greater than casual carpooling. Van Pools popped up based on the experience of vans in Minneapolis, Detroit/Windsor, Oak Ridge, railroads, oil companies and a few other places faced with large outlays for parking and roads.
Buses did not gather as many passengers as predicted. Several other things were happening. Private bus companies sold to METRO, union labor coming to Virginia, lengthy response time to provide changes in service, not that many paying passengers. Most bus routes carried mostly METRO employees and senior citizens. Local government unwilling to pick up the tab for transit subsidy. Pretty long list.
Workforce mix came to the area in clumps.
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: CallmeMrSlug
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2005 at 12:07am
I moved here 18 months ago. I started commuting with the VRE for 4 months. I then did the bus thing for almost 6 months. I have been slugging the past 8 months. On occasion, when I have had doctors appointments for myself or my family, I have driven to Springfield and caught the metro, and also to Pentagon City and caught the metro at the fashion mall. I live in Stafford and commute out of the 610 lot for reference. My place of work is near the capital in DC. I'll try to describe each experience I had with the different modes of commute.
VRE - I took the 6:25 AM train from the Brook Station. I had to leave my house no later than 6:05 to get to the station on time. If the train was on time, I usually arrived in Union Station at 7:50. Whether I took the metro or walked to the job, I usually signed in at work no earlier than 8:10. Commute time in best case scenario : 1 hour and 45 minutes from train station to office. 2 hours and 5 minutes door to door. The return trip was comparable. Now if VRE was late, well now we are talking an additional 20 minutes or more to this commute. By the end of four months, I was exhausted and ready to leave the area. I won't get into particular beefs with VRE in terms of climate control because the time involved commuting just made it not a workable commuting alternative.
Bus Service - Ten minutes, at most to commuter lot. Caught the 6:25 bus. Connected with Red Line about 7:35 most days. Got into office about 7:50 most days. Lot to office time, 1 hour and twenty five minutes. Home to office, 1 hour and 35 minutes. The biggest problem with the bus service was the return trip home. Left office 4:45 to catch 5:00 bus. Bus was consistently 10 minutes late picking up. Usually arrive in 610 lot at 6:10. Ten minutes home. 1 hour and twenty five minutes work to lot, 1 hour and 35 minutes home. Total commute each day 3 hours plus.
Slugging - Ten minutes to lot. However, learned that this is a form of transportation where early bird gets worm. Leave house 5:50am. In line by 6 am. Ideally, I would prefer a ride to 14th and G and walk to Metro Center to get Red line. However, will take ride to L'Enfant or 18th and k if it comes first. If ride to 14th and G, usually sign in by 7:10 at latest. Maybe 7:15 if to L'Enfant or 18th. Given that I live 45 miles from my office, this is acceptable.
The only thing I don't like about slugging is that the return home has to go through the pentagon. Depending on how I catch the trains, it can be a 20-30 minute trip to the pentagon. From there, it depends on the number of sluggers already waiting for a 610 ride. Usually, its less than 15 and that line moves quickly. Today, there were 50 people ahead of me when I arrived for a ride at 4:45. Still, I left the pentagon by 5:05 and got back to Stafford at 6:00. Still better than VRE or Buses even on a bad day.
Whats the advantages of Slugging?
1. Time savings. Every minute I am not commuting is more time I spend with my family.
2. Costs. I only pay for the trip to the commuter lost, and have put less than 10,000 miles on my car since I moved here 18 months ago.
3. Comfortable rides. I have ridden in some high quality vehicles for the most part. The overwhelming number of drivers have bought vehicles with the fact that they are transporting slugs and have considered the comfort of their passengers in purchasing their vehicles.
4. Except for L'Enfant, most slug drop off points are close to the metro. L'enfant can be an exception because most Navy Yard drivers drop you off short of the metro, and in my personal circumstance, it is better for me to walk to Seventh to catch the trains I need. But, I understand this when I accept the L'Enfant ride.
5. The shared good feeling. For the most part, although never explicitly stated, most slugs and drivers realize we are doing this for a mutual benefit, and there is genuine appreciation felt when I say thank you for the ride and the driver says thank you for riding.
6. Flexibility. I get to the lot when it is convenient for me. Generally speaking, this means early, but if I want to be a little late, and put up with additional traffic, I can. I can't even begin to tell you the number of times the train would leave as I arrived, or I greeted the lot as the bus was just leaving. Its stressful to miss your ride. You can usually catch a DC ride until 6:30 out of 610, and a pentagon ride until almost 7:30 out of 610.
Disadvantages of Slugging.
1. Loss of "control" over your environment. A driver has an absolute right to listen to what he or she wants on the radio. When its music, it is not really an issue. But religious sermons, and political talk radio are sometimes tough to swallow. But in getting into the car, I know I have no control and so I try to tune it out.
2. A subset of (1) really, A/C. While the overwhelming majority of drivers keep the A/C at a comfortable level, some don't. Again, I am a hitch hiker and don't feel I should say anything. When I start to sweat profusely, they usually change it.
3. The lack of a pentagon alternative for getting home. Having everyone go the pentagon creates unnecessary waiting times. I think there should be some place in DC where drivers and slugs can agree upon to get back to 610 which avoids slugs having to commute thirty minutes to get to the pentagon each evening.
4. Lack of shelter. A week ago, I went to the pentagon for my ride home. It was raining, and even some lightning. I peered through the rain and thought no one was in the 610 line, so I chanced it. Big mistake. Not only was there rain heavy, but the lightning was very, very nearby. I was a fool to stand there with my lightning rod of an umbrella with lightning so close. Since the pentagon is nearby, they surely know of this hazard. They have shelter for the bus riders but not the carpoolers. Does the fact we are "slugs" not entitle us from protection from the rain and elements?
I do not wish for any of the negatives to be interpretted as me not being grateful for the slugging alternative. I really, really appreciate the drivers who get me to work each day, and who take me home. You folks are terrific. If HOT becomes a reality, I may move because slugging won't exist anymore. But i chose the name callmemrslug because I am proud to be a slugger, and grateful for how much it has improved my life since moving here.
Now, briefly onto to metro. Basically two hours from Home to Office using Springfield during NON-peak hours each way. I don't mind riding metro, think they give ample leg room, just hate time between connections. Its about an hour and 30 minutes off peak to drive to Pentagon City, and ample parking there, and not that expensive. Its a good alternative when you have a doctors appointment.
Vanpools might work better for me, given my destination. I have not tried them yet. I really like the flexibility that slugging offers. If I want to hit the snooze a third or fourth time, no one is waiting for me.
Let me say that I love Stafford and the community. It is a great place to live. I have chosen to live here and accept a longer commute for what I believe is a better quality of life. I have no regrets and am appreciative of the slugging alternative which permits me a reasonable commute.
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Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2005 at 1:33am
quote:
Originally posted by CallmeMrSlug
[br]. BIG SNIP
3. The lack of a pentagon alternative for getting home. Having everyone go the pentagon creates unnecessary waiting times. I think there should be some place in DC where drivers and slugs can agree upon to get back to 610 which avoids slugs having to commute thirty minutes to get to the pentagon each evening.
4. Lack of shelter. A week ago, I went to the pentagon for my ride home. It was raining, and even some lightning. I peered through the rain and thought no one was in the 610 line, so I chanced it. Big mistake. Not only was there rain heavy, but the lightning was very, very nearby. I was a fool to stand there with my lightning rod of an umbrella with lightning so close. Since the pentagon is nearby, they surely know of this hazard. They have shelter for the bus riders but not the carpoolers. Does the fact we are "slugs" not entitle us from protection from the rain and elements?
ANOTHER BIG SNIP
Regarding DC slug pick up points. When DC hired the new Chief, he brought his Chicago habits with him. In his first few weeks in office, he and his staff were out there arresting slugs. Must have tagged a few Congressional staffers. DC police backed off some, but not to the degree of acceptance that existed before. Getting DC to be more slug friendly is an admirable goal.
Regarding Pentagon Slug pick up. Senator Warner went to bat (sort of) to get improved pick up for slugs. I believe the staffers name was Calif. (As in the Kalif of Baghdad. I think the first name was Toxey. Or maybe Toxey was the name of the aide's father.)
Anyway, the shelter was more to get slugs off of the METRO platform and away from the lanes going through parking. The location for slugs was at the far south end of the lot. There was a shelter. The intent was to make it easier for drivers to exit the reversible lanes and swing through south parking to get slugs. Never really worked. It was a real hassle for a pedestrian to get to the pick up point.
There was some type of crash with one of the overhead signs near the new slug shelter. The remnants hung there menacingly for a long time. People were hesitant to use the shelter. Van pool passengers waited on the grass rather than use the shelter.
I was at the dedication of the shelter and met Senator Warner. Warner gave me the impression that he thought slugs were worthless. I don't think Warner understood slugging. At least not that his constituents liked it. I think Warner was more impressed by METRO riderhip and considered slugs as eating into METRO passengers. The shelter cost something like $30,000 and Warner muttered something implying a waste of money when introduced to the people at the ceremony. Granted, most of the people there were anti-slug. But Warner's demeanor left a sour taste in my mouth.
For slugging to be successful, someone, or maybe a whole bunch of someones will have to get Warner to provide greater slug support.
dickboyd@aol.com
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Posted By: Permit expeditor
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2005 at 7:13pm
quote:
Originally posted by KCWolfPck
[br]All bus....yeah, that's gonna happen. HOV-40. LMAO
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