Drivers....why do you pick up slugs?
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Topic: Drivers....why do you pick up slugs?
Posted By: KCWolfPck
Subject: Drivers....why do you pick up slugs?
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 8:07am
I know, I know.....to drive in the HOV lane, duh! Let me be more specific.
Drivers who pick-up slugs on a DAILY basis as you regular commuting routine, why do you do it?
There are better options out there. Let's say for example that you commute from Fredericksburg daily. That's about 120 miles a day on your car (600 miles a week, 2500 miles a month, 30,000 miles a year). That's filling up your gas tank about 2 times a week. That's paying $200+ parking a month. That means your monthly commute is approx. $425 a month. That amount only takes into consideration parking and gas (gas figured at 2500 miles, 25mpg, $2.25 per gallon). This does not even include how much more often you have to have your car serviced, the massive depreciation your car is taking by putting 30k miles a year on it, higher insurance costs, etc...
I understand why some people prefer not to take the VRE, it takes forever. But why not carpool or vanpool? Both are faster than driving and picking up slugs.
Carpool - Split the cost of commuting 4 ways, you drive every 4th day, you put only 7500 miles on your car a year commuting, pay maybe $50 a month for parking, save a ton in gas money. All in all, you'll probably save about $320 a month...that's almost 4k a year.
Vanpool - You never have to drive, you only put about 25 miles on your car a WEEK if you live close to a commuter lot, pay nothing for parking. Cost is only in the $140-160 range. This could also save you hundreds a month...thousands a year.
So everyday drivers...why do you choose to pick up slugs. Seriously, I'm just curious. There must be a good reason that you don't want to save thousands a year in commuting costs...let's hear it.
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Replies:
Posted By: shahedC
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 8:14am
Various reasons:
When I drive, I do it because:
- I have plans to hang out in the city after work.
- I know I'll be working late, and I need a way to get home at night.... without walking to the Metro, waiting for a train, then taking the train, and then waiting for a bus, then taking the bus back to my commuter lot, then driving home.
- I have appointments in the morning or afternoon that is not within walking distance and cannot be accessed by Metro.
And I pick up slugs because it's the quickest way to get into the city when driving to DC during rush hour.
There are other people who drive because:
- they need their car in case of emergency (e.g. old parent who might need instant attention any time of day)
- they have to drop off / pick up their child from day care
- their company pays for parking and maybe even subsidizes gas costs
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 8:23am
Well, as I said, I understand why people pick up slugs occasionally, but I was just referring to people who do it everyday.
Regarding your 3 reasons why other people drive:
- There is a guaranteed ride home program that will get you home for free in case of an emergency
- I drop-off and pick-up kids from day care and still am able to carpool/vanpool, as I said before...it is quicker than picking up slugs. So if you can dropoff/pick up kids at daycare while you drive via slug line...there is no reason why that would prevent you for carpooling/vanpooling
- Even if company paid for parking and gas....that's still 30k miles a year on your car. High maintence costs, car only lasting a few year
None of those reasons seem like a reason to not carpool/vanpool to me.
Anyone else?
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 8:51am
There's no comparison between having your car ready for you than a guaranteed ride home program.
What if I need to do various errands before I get home?
What if you need to pick-up your kids an hour or 20min. before you get off from work? Are they going to be able to get off from work early too?
I've tried vanpooling and I'd do it again only when necessary.
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Posted By: scottt
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 8:53am
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My parking is paid for. If it wasn't, I would be a slug myself.
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 8:59am
quote:
Originally posted by emancilla
[br]
What if I need to do various errands before I get home?
Then you drive on the day you need to run errands.
quote:
What if you need to pick-up your kids an hour or 20min. before you get off from work?
If you have to pick up your kids an hour and 20 min. BEFORE you get off from work...you're in a pickle no matter how you got to work.
So basically, you are saying you pick up slugs because you are willing to spend thousands more a month just in case of a couple "what ifs". That's cool. Surely there must be people with better reasons than that?
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Posted By: Dhacim
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 8:59am
Your making an often false assumption that many of us that drive have to pay to park. I for one either don't have to pay, or it is fully reimbursed as well as alot of my gas money as well.
For me it saves time, and cost no more than VRE or Vanpooling, and I have tried all alternatives.
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 9:04am
Maybe I forgot to say, What if, in any given day, you are in need to pick-up your kids an hour or 20min. before you get off from work...
Oh, and for "you drive the day you need to do errands", maybe I wasn't clear enough. I should have said, What if in a case of emergency, you also need to stop to the farmacy, pick-up something you will need at home for the emergency, etc...
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 9:05am
As I said, even if you don't have to pay to park, you are still spending $225 a month in gas (less if it is also reimbursed), 30k miles a year on your car, paying higher maintenance costs, taking on serious car depreciation, paying higher insurance costs, etc...
And how does picking up slugs save you time over carpooling or vanpooling?
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 9:08am
quote:
Originally posted by emancilla
[br]Maybe I forgot to say, What if, in any given day, you are in need to pick-up your kids an hour or 20min. before you get off from work...
Are you saying that you wouldn't know how to get home if you had to leave early??? I don't understand. There is a taxi (which is free with the guaranteed ride home program), there is VRE. It's not rocket science. Personally, I've never had to find an alternate way home. Maybe I'm just lucky I don't have sickly children??
quote:
Oh, and for "you drive the day you need to do errands", maybe I wasn't clear enough. I should have said, What if in a case of emergency, you also need to stop to the farmacy, pick-up something you will need at home for the emergency, etc...
Well, nothing said you had to go straight home from the commuter lot. Once you get back in your car, you are free to do as you will, I assume.
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Posted By: SuzAnne
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 9:08am
Um, let' see. Because I can.
OK. That is flippant and I should be more responsive.
Because there are slugs waiting to go when I am ready to go.
Because I can leave work whenever I am ready and not coordinate the leaving time with my car-pool people.
Because I have my car and can go anyplace during the day and not have a must-return-by time to meet my car pool.
Because I can work late, if the boss wants, and not have to shaft my car pool.
Because parking is free (for me). I know this is not the case for everyone.
Because the VRE is not as reliable (my opinion based on the number of times I've been captive on the VRE) as the good old roadway.
Because the VRE lot fills up sooner than the slug-lot.
Because the Marines at Quantico have made life a bit** to get there to park for VRE.
Because Quantico traffic messed up and Rippon is full.
Because VRE is physically uncomfortable if you have long legs or emotionally uncomfortable if you wear a skirt (even a modestly cut skirt) but have to sit on the upper deck of the sardine cars.
Because I find the stranger in the back seat less threatening than the ooglers on VRE.
Because the guaranteed ride home program works only if you have about three hours for them to get their act together for you. I am better off asking a co-worker to take me home.
Maybe I also use HOV because it is the responsible thing to do.
I drop-off and pick-up kids from day care and still am able to pick-up an impromtu car pool. This is more convient, for me, than a carpool/vanpool, but does not show it to be superior, nor inferior. So what was your point, KCWOLFPACK?
I put 200K on my last Astrovan doing about 20K per year. It was looking good and running well when we bought a new van, after 10 years. The main maintenance was oil changes, tires, annual alignment, and brakes. What part of that is "high maintenance?" If your car only last "a few years," you are not maintaining your car properly.
But it does not matter because when HOT comes about, slugging will die, access to the road will be metered. The three lane HOT will carry fewer than half the current HOV commuter load. As it was said before, "after paying a billion dollars, we will have less capacity."
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 9:12am
Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 9:19am
BTW, I was just testing you KCWolfPck, sorry. I'm a slug. But you were really ready for the come backs.
Now, the part about that I've tried vanpooling, it's true. It's an alternative but not the best.
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Posted By: shahedC
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 9:20am
Yep, SuzAnne pretty much said it... the slug system is more flexible than any "guaranteed" ride home, which restricts the number of emergencies you're allowed to have per year.
You can also stay as late as you need to, and not mess up a carpool.
KCWolfPck, please don't say something like "Yes, but why do you pick up slugs?"
If you don't get it by now, then you won't get it. :)
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Posted By: mariam0673
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 9:35am
I like knowing that I have my car here, at work, where I can go at a moment's notice if necessary, or work late if necessary. Also, I live in Triangle, so if I wanted to do something after work I'd have to take my carpool all the way back to Triangle and then backtrack if I had plans, for example, in Springfield.
I guess for me it's just the comfort of knowing I don't need to depend on anyone else.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 10:04am
SuzAnne said quite a bit of it. Convenience is one of the biggest reasons. I'd also add that highway miles don't really compare to other miles. Sure oil changes increase, but brakes and tires seem to wear out faster on short, around town trips than on HOV driving (even with the increases in congestion there).
My parking is paid for. I occasionally need my vehicle to get to meetings around town. I'm compensated adequately to be responsive and that means having my own vehicle at the ready.
Carpool/Vanpool/Metro/VRE either aren't available or convenient to my place of work. Although being on the river has other advantages.
I like slugs too.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 10:24am
Carpooling has slugging beat all to pieces, if you have the luxury of set hours, like me. I like the dependability, and knowing I am going to make the daycare on time. And I like the deadline in the morning, or I would never get up!
My wife picks up slugs every morning, which means her morning is flexible, but she never knows when she is going to get out at night, so she can't take VRE or be in a carpool. Without slugs, I don't know what she'd do.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 10:38am
My last car lasted 228K miles over 11 years driving of myself in the regular lanes. It was still going strong when I wrecked it while Christmas shopping a couple of years ago.
Oh yeah, why pick up slugs? Because it works better than other options.
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Posted By: mirangus
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 10:39am
- My company pays for parking
- I'm a control freak who has a rather whimsical, I mean flexible, schedule.
- I like meeting new people
- The VRE is way more expensive for me
- Maintenence costs for my vehicle consist of oil changes and the annual servicing that would have been done anyway.
- Everything else SuzAnne said
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 11:14am
Because it's fun! [^] ( ... and I occasionally do need a 3rd or 4th person in the car when all the regular carpool members aren't available).
Keep on sluggin'! [:)]
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Posted By: 122582
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 11:50am
Because I like having something to complain about.
Seriously, my schedule does not allow me fixed hours, and I frequently (with no notice) have to work late (after the last bus or VRE). Thus I must have my own ride home.
If my schedule were such that I could report to work 10:00-7:00, I wouldn't bother with the slug lines at all. Since it does not, the only way for me to get to the Pentagon in a reasonable time-frame is to drive my car and pick up slugs, ride my motorcycle, or consider buying a Hybrid (and no, the auto manufacturers are not going to allow the exemption to expire).
In any event, I like many others, came out here for the big check and steady work, but found it necessary to move to Freddiesburg and points south to afford the house we wanted.
In short, KC, I have little choice.
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Posted By: msticaries
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 11:55am
I was part of a van pool: The person driving was alway 1/2 hour to 45 minutes late in the evening EVERY night, and standing out in the elements (when it's really cold or hot) waiting really bit the big one. Of course if you were 5 minutes late in the morning they left you high and dry.
the train, there are NO parking places left (especially since I am a spotsy resident can't park in certain lots) by the time I would need to catch the train, and that is at 6:00 a.m. to get to work by 8:00 a.m. and then I have to switch to metro to get to the office.
bus, I have taken them too only to break down on the highway.
so I drive or slug. I can come and go at my pace and not have to worry about anyone else's schedule.
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Posted By: SuzAnne
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 11:57am
As a slug or "informal, impromptu car-pooler" driver, I am able to use the guaranteed ride -- and am registered for it -- just as I would be if in a van/car pool.
Suzan
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Posted By: SuzAnne
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 12:04pm
quote:
Originally posted by 122582
[br]Because I like having something ...
a Hybrid (and no, the auto manufacturers are not going to allow the exemption to expire)...
I have little choice.
122582!
You will have less choice in a short time and should join the ANTI-HOT folks now.
Read the HOT proposal. Hybrids are welcomed, so long as they pay the toll. In California, on the SR-91 HOT, the TOLL is 77 and 1/2 cents per mile.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 12:44pm
Like a conversational black hole, or Brittany Spears' navel, all thoughts and eyes eventually return to the toll road menace.
Are you ready to join us the evening of September 14 for the LAST time you will be allowed to make a public comment on the sale of the region's most important roadway?
PLEASE put it on your calendar NOW, and don't let anything interfere.
Remember: this proposal is for the NEXT SIXTY YEARS!
Can you spare one evening to fight it?
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 1:08pm
Ok, so from what I gather from the majority is that those that drive slugs everyday, do it because either (a) their work schedules don't allow them to commit to a vanpool/carpool, or (b) they like the convenience of having their vehicles at their disposal.
That's fine and dandy. Thank you for answering, you answered my question.
As SpongeBob also pointed out, it seems most everyone on this board is opposed to the HOT lanes which is funny because that brings me to the whole point of this thread in the first place.
A lot of you drivers are willing to pay a premium for convenience. You pay thousands a year that you don't need to just because you like/need to have you car at the ready. But in reality, you are paying for convenience.
Why is it that you get to pay for convenience, but are opposed to others being able to pay for convenience? Convenience in the form paying to use the HOT lanes. It seems pretty selfish to me? Who are you to get to decide what other people are willing to pay for the same convenience?
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see the HOT lanes come to fruition either. Luckily, I am outta here as soon as my wife retires in 3 years so hopefully I won't have to.
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Posted By: Dhacim
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 1:16pm
KC,
The answer to your question is simple. Because allowing others to pay for convenience would not only kill the system of slugging, but would also then create personal inconvenience for us slugs and further congestion on the I-95 corridor.
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 1:27pm
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So, selfishness is your answer?
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Posted By: 122582
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 1:37pm
KC,
Check out my earlier post where I said I'd still pick up slugs when HOT became a reality, assuming of course the slugs paid the toll. Only fair since it would be my car, my gas, my aggravation.
Do you remember how many people blasted my statement?
Slugs want a free ride. That is the major resistance to HOT.
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 2:03pm
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Right, you're out of here in a couple of years so whether HOT becomes a reality or not that's not your problem. Talking about selfisness...
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 2:06pm
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Emancella, can you please explain to me how moving away from DC in a few years is being selfish? Thank you.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 2:11pm
Actually, more people moving away (for whatever reason) defeats the HOT proposal to some extent as fewer people/vehicles=less $$. I can dream can't I?
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 3:50pm
I'd be willing to fight HOT - but only if the hybrid exemption were extended. I'm with you, KC - slugs have the mindset of "I've got mine, to heck with you." HOT is the great equalizer for those willing to pay for speed.
By the way, HOV lanes are zipping along EVEN WITH hybrids in them. The anti-hybrid sentiment by slugs has turned me into a HOT fanantic.
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Posted By: EnufisEnuf
Date Posted: 11 Aug 2005 at 4:33pm
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You guys sure like to argue and start pointless fights. Who cares? HOT will be bad but not a lot we can do about it. Hopefully the hybrid exemption will end as there are just too many on the roads right now. Things are perfect but they work right now. No sense arguing about pointless things.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2005 at 7:14am
quote:
Originally posted by EnufisEnuf
[br] Hopefully the hybrid exemption will end as there are just too many on the roads right now. Things are perfect but they work right now. No sense arguing about pointless things.
Actually, not so. Things are FAR less than perfect for the regular lanes and the folks trying to commute there. VDOT needs to come up with an overall transportation plan, and HOV the way it is now is obviously not the answer. Hybrid exemption is clearly a step in the right direction to balance the congestion, but when that goes, the only short term solution is the HOT.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2005 at 7:21am
There ARE people sitting in the mainlines who COULD go out of their way a little bit to pick up slugs AND get some of the diminishing benefits of HOV. A large majority are just unwilling to turn loose of some of their own self-driven interests.
I know people (and am one) who pick up slugs, drive out of their way to drop them off, so they (I) can enjoy a little less time spent on the commute.
Hybrids do better (in MORE aspects) when operating on battery power. Put them back in the mainline if they're < HOV +. Then they can enjoy the increased fuel efficiency and help reduce emissions by running on batteries.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2005 at 7:32am
quote:
Originally posted by N_or_S_bound
[br]There ARE people sitting in the mainlines who COULD go out of their way a little bit to pick up slugs AND get some of the diminishing benefits of HOV. A large majority are just unwilling to turn loose of some of their own self-driven interests.
Hybrids do better (in MORE aspects) when operating on battery power. Put them back in the mainline if they're < HOV +. Then they can enjoy the increased fuel efficiency and help reduce emissions by running on batteries.
Same old (tired) arguement. As KC puts it so well, it's all about selfishness, it's just the degree. It would be a FAR, FAR better planet if the HOV lanes were changed to hybrid only lanes, don't you think? Eventually we'd get rid of those less efficient vehicles and be able to go back to HOV.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2005 at 7:42am
Tired? Truth is truth and the truth hurts. Easy to try to evade the main points being made by taking a rabbit trail.
Now, you did offer what most reasonable people are looking for though, use that hybrid to HOV. If it's HOV3, have 3 people in the vehicle. Your own words trap you. If you're carrying less than the requisite numbers, then do YOU really care about a "FAR, FAR better planet"?
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2005 at 10:17am
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NoSB - buy a hybrid, then your words have credibility.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2005 at 10:37am
NoSUV,
Funny. I'm a late-adopter. Prove it first in both promise and performance, then I buy. Yeah, that's selfish, eh? I call it wise.
Did you own Beta or VHS when they were both available?
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: mirangus
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2005 at 10:44am
KC-I find your statement about "paying for convenince" to be wholly inaccurate, at least from my experience. Read my first post on this thread, where I pointed out that my expenses were such that I was not paying any more for any "convenience". If I weren't picking up slugs, I would be in the main lanes using up MORE gasoline. I have to service my car once a year anyway, so the wear and tear is not that visible. Sure, it may age my vehicle faster, but that is from the nature of my commute, and not because I have two additional people with me. Additionally, as previously stated, I am very fortunate to have company paid parking, so that that's no expense to me; just a bennie from working for a pretty cool company. My philosophy is - I'm headed that way anyway, why not grab a couple people and head up there faster. Train won't work, it costs more a month than they gas that I use (well, at least that was true last year, I may need to reassess...haha). So, your theory is not exactly universal. I believe that picking up slugs may actually save me some money in some areas.
Also, while we are discussing selfishness, I'd like to point out that EVERYONE is selfish. Yes, that's right. EVERYONE. We're all looking out for our own best interests. There's a big "Duh." Those who slug/drive slugs don't want Hybrids or HOT lanes. Those with Hybrids could give a crap less about slugging (unless you pick up slugs, which makes you Uber Cool), don't want to see their exemption expire, and certainly don't want HOT lanes. All of the jealous souls that watch us whiz past us them in the main lanes would probably pay a king's ransom to travel like that, so they're ALL about the HOT lanes and to hell with slugs and hybrids alike!! See my point? Of course we are all out for our own interests...we're human, aren't we? The most reasonable thing to do would be do, which I think is what we're ALL trying to do is to come up with a solution that works for everyone, or at least a good majority (you can never please everyone).
The frustrating part about all of this is that we, the commuting society, do not seem to have the support from our respective legislative bodies. These parties seem to be in it for "themselves" (by that, I mean the jurisdiction) in order to receive a profit. There is no municipal control or involvement in slugging, so what do they care? In fact, I heard rumblings a while ago about restricting which commuter parking lot you can park in based on your residence. So if I lived in the city of Fredericksburg and tried to park in a Stafford County lot, I would either be fined, or I would have to pay some toll to use that lot because I didn't live there. Let's all hope that it doesn't get THAT far.
Slugging is a very cool system. Allowing hybrids into the HOV lanes because of their environmental friendliness also seems reasonable in theory, despite claims that the hybrids do not actually save gas on the highway (let's not go into that on this thread). HOT lanes seem reasonable as well. You can argue all sides, pro and cons, to all methods and solutions, but the main problem, the one that REALLY needs tackling is just the capacity in general. There's a bazillion people trying to get to work, how do we make it better for everyone, instead of just thinking self-centrically. I wish I could come up with some solutions, but there are many reasons why I am NOT a civil engineer...LOL. Maybe the rest of you "super smart professionals" could put some brainpower into it.
Just some food for thought.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2005 at 10:49am
--sigh--
What's the point? Why bother? Maybe it would be better just to let the toll roads happen, not to fight them, simply bow my head and acquiesce to the Vast Machine. Let the politicians shirk their responsibility, let them shift taxation to a private company and act like they've done their job. Let the big out-of-state companies come in and eliminate my carpool, force me onto a bus, add an hour of empty time to my commute each day. Why not just sit back and let them screw me. Why not.
When I'm tired of fighting the circular arguments of NoSUV or the nonsensical assertions of KC, when the hopelessness of our situation overtakes my will to oppose, when my head droops with fatigue and my eyes fill with tears, I try to remember that this is just one small battle against the further bifurcation of our society, the growing division between the Haves and the Have Nots.
Selfish pigs like NoSUV and KC are incapable of seeing that an adjustable rate toll road is anti-democratic, that it punishes and excludes, intentionally!, people of low income. KC talks about convenience -- I talk about necessity. Roads are not a convenience, they are at the core of any society -- look at what the Romans used to civilize the Mediterranean.
When you take away the right of certain people to use a piece of publicly funded infrastructure, you are building another division between the people of our country. And make no mistake: the mechanism for setting the toll rates on I95 is predicated on income levels. Rates will be tied to congestion, or need, in other words. The more necessary the lanes, the more they will cost for users. To ensure the value of the system (a speedy trip), the rate will be raised, with the direct intention of discouraging those who cannot afford a higher rate.
There is no arguing with this. You are either a selfish load who doesn't care about the less fortunate, or you are opposed to selling our future for a handful of rice today. Pick a side.
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Posted By: KCWolfPck
Date Posted: 12 Aug 2005 at 10:55am
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Sponge, I only talked about convenience because that was one of the main reasons people chose to use slugging (according to this informal thread)....regardless of how much money they could be saving if they carpooled/vanpooled.
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