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hybrids get out of the fast lanes!

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Category: Archived Slugging Topics
Forum Name: Hybrids
Forum Description: This area is devoted to the discussion of hybrid vehicles and their impact to the HOV.
URL: http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2192
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Topic: hybrids get out of the fast lanes!
Posted By: ehoberg
Subject: hybrids get out of the fast lanes!
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2005 at 9:16am
I am all for hybrids using the HOV but I cannot stand it when riding in the fast lane (left, by the way) only be held up by some hybrid driving like an utter snail. move over to the slow lane.

thanks.



Replies:
Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2005 at 2:30pm
quote:
Originally posted by ehoberg
[br]I am all for hybrids using the HOV but I cannot stand it when riding in the fast lane (left, by the way) only be held up by some hybrid driving like an utter snail. move over to the slow lane.

thanks.



It's the driver, not the vehicle who determines the speed and lane choice.


Kindest Regards,

mroyal


Posted By: ehoberg
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2005 at 12:25pm
Of course. Therefore, I direct my remark to the drivers of Hybrids. However it works out that they move intolerably slow in the fast lanes, I ask that the cars be driven in the slow lanes.

grutzi.


Posted By: VA4ver
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2005 at 12:51pm
How about you direct your yelling to all cars (hybrids, cycles, BUSES) in the left who are moving over for you. Guess you think you are God.

(Know I shouldn't even respond to this person but many a times I've been in the left lane getting ready to EXIT and some yahoo rides my tailpipe.)


Posted By: Luddite
Date Posted: 14 Sep 2005 at 9:17am
Since when in the last three years is there a fast lane on HOV? There may be fast 1/4 mile sections, but there are no longer any fast lanes. Just pass on the right, or the shoulder, or tailgate until they move over. Sheesh.


Posted By: k2
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2005 at 7:47pm
How fast would you like the hybrid vehicles to travel?


Posted By: bnvus
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2005 at 11:36am
quote:
Originally posted by Luddite
[br]Since when in the last three years is there a fast lane on HOV? There may be fast 1/4 mile sections, but there are no longer any fast lanes. Just pass on the right, or the shoulder, or tailgate until they move over. Sheesh.


Now hang on a second. Call me crazy. But last I checked it was slower cars ride in the right lane and pass on the left when safe. Europe has been doing this for years and it is downright curteous. This is ongoing problem in the United States and has recently been addressed by local governments. Some states have will ticket you for riding the left lane while not passing. Pennsylvania is one of them.


Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2005 at 12:06pm
Slower than what though? The speed limit? Or slower than the illegal flow of traffic?

I can't imagine that the powers that be would want "slower traffic move right" to mean someone going 70 in a 65 mph speed limit when others are trying to go 75. That would be somewhat of an internal contradiction in the system.

NoSb

SOV because you can, HOV because you care!


Posted By: bnvus
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2005 at 1:37pm
In Pennsylvania, the law clearly states slower than the flow of traffic. The left lane has been designated as pass only.


Posted By: VA4ver
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2005 at 9:34am
But when all lanes are full how can you say only use right lane if you want to travel the speed limit (65)? Consider all the buses that occupy the lanes that travel anywhere from 35-55? Then everyone has to travel in left. I gather that the people who want EVERYONE to travel in the right lane, except to pass, are the speed demons who want to travel in rush hour traffic at excessive speeds. "Rush" hour traffic doesn't mean you get to rush -- you get to travel the bottle necks with the rest of us.

In NORMAL flow of traffic, yes, slower traffic stay to right. But if you are going with the FLOW, then left/right doesn't matter. It only matters when someone decides to go against the flow and travel slower. Then that person should be in the right until his/her exit.

Also take into consideration that the left lane is the exit lane for the majority of HOV exits.


Posted By: bnvus
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2005 at 11:41am
The issue is holding up the flow of traffic ir-reguardless of the time of day. If someone in the left lane is coming up from behind their intention is obviously to pass. Drivers not passing in the left lane should move over and let them by. Hey it's their ticket.

And the majority of exits off HOV (I-95) are not in the left lane. The majority is the Springfield exchange in the afternoon, which is not considered HOV until you get by (7100) Franconia Springfield Parkway Exit.


Posted By: VA4ver
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2005 at 2:48pm
This strictly applies to RUSH HOUR and when traffic is heavy (meaning most the time around here).

So basically you are saying that EVERYONE is to be in the right hand lane UNLESS they are passing the person in front? Yeah right. Like that will ever happen. During the rush hour, all lanes are required to move traffic and the idiot, who thinks they can barrel down the road and cars are supposed to leap over to the right hand lane to let them by, is delusional.

Technically you shouldn't be passing UNLESS the car in front is going under the speed limit, therefore you are confined to the right hand lane. Technically you shouldn't be speeding up BEYOND the speed limit to pass. Technically you should only be traveling 65 mph on the HOV. So who is breaking the law now?

Stupid argument -- belongs under the category of "how to be a god wanna be -- part the water for me."


Posted By: maytrix
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2005 at 11:31am
quote:
Originally posted by ehoberg
[br]Of course. Therefore, I direct my remark to the drivers of Hybrids. However it works out that they move intolerably slow in the fast lanes, I ask that the cars be driven in the slow lanes.

grutzi.



But maybe it's you that's holding me up as I cruise in the fast lane at 90mph in my hybrid?


Posted By: tangelo53
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2005 at 3:28pm
AMEN!!! I have noticed that every time I drive..yes, every time.. someone in a hybrid speeds up to get in front of me in the left lane, and then puts on their brakes to slow down!! AND-- there is no traffic in the right lane. What gives??? I wouldn't complain if it happened once in a while, but every time I drive, I am always cut off by these Hybrids that HAVE to get in front of me, and then crawl down 95 in the left lane. goodness, I hope they don't do that to tractor trailers!!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2005 at 9:12am
It's always SUVs that do that to me. Never a hybrid.


Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2005 at 10:21am
There are self-centered drivers in every make and model (probably year too) of vehicle out there on the roads. It is all a matter of degrees. It's not just those who cut others off that are selfish, it is also a pervasive attitude that someone cut me off that indicates a level of selfishness as well.

I admit I'm not a perfect driver and I can't please everyone I encounter on the road.

Please drive with courtesy and seek to find out what it means to be a defensive driver then practice it. That would make the overall commute a bit easier to experience.

NoSb

SOV because you can, HOV because you care!


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2005 at 2:12pm
Puleeezzee! The drivers in the DC area are the worst for speeding up, cutting off, then slowing down. They are terrible for speeding up to cut off merge traffic. They are awful for racing up and highspeed tailgating. They are nasty about passing on the right and early exiting to cut off other exiting drivers. And the bottom line is that there is no one vehicle driver that does it more than another. Sports car drivers, small cars, SUVs, big cars, all drivers are guilty! Its the combination of too many cars driven by inconsiderate and stressed out people on roads that are poorly engineered and inadequate to handle the traffic volume. And Police don't help; if they decided to actually enforce the speed limit and agressive driving laws there would be no need to consider HOT, county revenues would go through the roof!

Get smart, Slow down, Drive safe, Live longer, be happier!


Posted By: adjguy
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2005 at 1:02pm
Last I checked, the posted speed limit is as fast as you can drive. Gotta love that "northernvirginia-itis" unwritten rule that an opening in the left lane is a permission slip to hammer down. Lotta folks around here seem pretty tough while in the safety of thier cars.

SLOW DOWN.



Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2005 at 8:39am
Description of my ride in this morning in a nutshell:

Hybrids everywhere, approaching 50 percent of traffic in some sections.

We passed a group of 5 hybrids in a row, one regular car, and a hybrid sport ute next.

Slow, slow traffic in the HOV lanes, in many cases about the same speed as regular lanes.

Folks, make this promise over your turkey day break. PLEASE write a letter, again if you already have to your state senator and delegate. This thing is not over yet and is getting worse.


Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2005 at 11:01am
When does hybrid huntin' season start?


Posted By: VA4ver
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2005 at 11:34am
July 2006


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2005 at 3:41pm
And yet, all delegates seem to agree with governor elect that the hybrid exemption must continue. By the way, are the express lanes still faster than the regular lanes?

Slugs should form a team of 2 - one to keep time and one to count. Figure out how many cars per minute you are passing in the regular lane, and report it with the time of the commute.

I doubt slugs would post an honest answer - the data would clearly show the need for continuing the exemption. Thank goodness the VA government already knows that!


Posted By: VA4ver
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2005 at 4:35pm
I think that if you commute from the far southern reaches I could see being frustrated when the traffic backs up before the Pentagon.

Yes, even at a crawl, traffic does move faster than the regular lanes. There are spits and spurts when the regular lanes seem to open up and I guess that can be frustrating.

As for continuing to keep hybrids on the road, I would say "no" if the powers that be plan to keep HOV intact. But since the winds seem to be blowing in the direction of HOT, then hybrids will either pay tolls, carpool, use regular lanes, or use public transportation.

May the campaigning should be at the Federal level. Can the Feds overturn Virginia's plan to turn HOV into HOT?


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2005 at 7:41pm
Another item of interest. It appears that Governor elect Kaine plans to extend the hybrid extention as part of his transportation plan. Delegates in this region support that. Don't take my word for it - check with your delegate. Sample email:
"Dear Delegate: What is your position on extending the hybrid exemption in the express lanes during peak commuting hours past its expiration in July 2006?"
Response guaranteed to be in favor of extention, along with some double speak about checking for congestion in the express lanes. You could try to bias their answer by putting your own desire into the email, but then you'd be unlikely to find out where they really stand. Once you know exactly where they stand, you can easily then follow up with an email telling them that you don't support their position, and provide facts why they should change.


Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2005 at 10:19pm
NoSUV,
How much time do drivers and slugs spend parking, and/or waiting in lines? Do you take that into account when you do your traffic analysis? I guarantee that the regular lanes would be faster for some people on some days, and it's only made much worse with the non-HOV hybrids slowing things down.

Why aren't you for reducing the total number of cars on the road instead of your self-serving hypocricy?


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2005 at 3:03pm
First NoSUV defends the hybrid exemption, then HOT lanes, what's next!? Where exactly do you stand NoSUV?

Only this is for sure, NoSUV is not a slugger. And if this is so, then what is the NoSUV agenda in this forum? I suspect NoSUV is a propiganda spreader; an operative for a politician, a contractor, a lobbyist, a PR perpetrator, or some other deciever intent on influencing the opinions of the commuting public.

Dare we engage NoSUV in debate, lest our arguments become ammo in the political process used against us.

NoSUV, the jig is up!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2005 at 10:46am
raymond - please review my past posts and you will see that I quite clearly state why I engage on this discussion board.

Umm, why do you? Have yet to see you post anything remotely intelligent.


Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 29 Nov 2005 at 2:22pm
He's right, you know: he has been upfront about being a troll several times.

I can't figure out what for, though. Sometimes he is for high-breds, sometimes he is agin 'em. But the idea that more asphalt is the answer... well, that is a pretty consistent thread in his writings. A persistent, ill-informed thread.

I wish he'd just go away, but he hasn't yet.

Tell me when he's gone. [|)]


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2005 at 2:20pm
So, absent an intelligent argument you resort to character attacks? That's pretty low! But what exactly is a troll? If that is a compliment, thanks Sponge!

I have been open and articulate about my position; I am a driving and riding participant in the slugline/HOV system and I am opposed to all HOV exemptions. I have nothing against hybrids, only hybrids that carry less than three occupants in the HOV lanes. I object to any vehicle that carries less than the optimal number of passengers needed to reduce traffic, smog and fuel consumption.

I also object to anyone who does not participate in the HOV system pontificating about what should and should not be allowed in the HOV lanes. A single occupant hybrid does not qualify as a High Occupancy Vehicle.

I also object to HOT, which amounts to preferential treatment by law enforcement based on financial status. That is discrimination, plain and simple!

I don't support the idea that more asphalt is the answer, only better use of the existing asphalt. For example: what about flex-lanes, such as those you see on major bridges in Philadelphia and New York, that change direction as the traffic flow demands. And what about making better use of the wide sholders in the HOV lanes? Could they be converted into lanes?
Here's something else that belongs in the "Ideas" section: What about changing HOV3 to HOV4? That would take even more commuters off the road.

If some authors in this forum spent more time suggesting ideas that benefit those involved, instead of holing up in ego-centric, self-serving, narrow-minded camps and attacking anyone who disagrees we might come up with some real solutions.


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2005 at 2:52pm
raymond: Just to be clear, it is implied by your statement that you are also against motorcycles using express lanes during HOV hours. Is that correct?


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 30 Nov 2005 at 3:20pm
I don't know about motorcycles; their negative impact seems to be less than cars. But I think vehicles should maximize their occupant capacity. If a motorcycle has a seat big enough for two people, then why not bring two!? I used to know a guy with a sidecar on his bike; man, what a feaky ride! There are lots of advantages to ride sharing, and many ways to participate. If we use our imagination I'm sure we could come up with a bunch of ways to reduce traffic/smog/fuel consumption that includes everyone in the effort. Instead of an "us vs. them" discussion, we should be considering options that include diverse participants. HOT excludes the middle class. Exemptions exclude those who choose not to make a specific purchase. I think there are better options.


Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2005 at 1:48pm
Raymond, you knucklehead, I was talking about NoSUV, not you! He's a troll, and no, it is not a compliment.

Geez!

But while I have your attention: a lot of people have done a lot of work long before you showed up to enlighten us with your brilliance. HOV-4 is an old idea around here, for example, but considered unworkable when you realize we already do not have enough commuter lot parking spaces. As for an additional lane in the shoulder: that is precisely what the HOT lane builders are promising to do. And lastly, the HOV lanes already ARE reversible like the NY ones you cite.

Please go and look at the topics on the board where you will see one I started months ago asking people to post their ideas. Why don't you revive that thread? It was called, "If not HOT, then what?" Other than a brief spat between Defender and NoSUV, there was some decent thinking on display.


Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2005 at 2:27pm
With all the posting, and I assume reading NoSUV does around here, I'm amazed that NoSUV never seems to learn anything new. Why ask about motorcycles again when it's been answered multiple times for you?

motorcycles - seasonal, and not growing in noticable numbers.
SOV hybrids - fill in the blank if you can, but it's nothing like motorcycles.


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2005 at 2:16pm
Thanks Sponge, I have been reading and contributing to these forums for some time now and am well aware of their content.

I am suggesting that they add reversible lanes to the existing reversible HOV lanes. For example: with nine reversible lanes the traffic flow could be reduced to two lanes or increased up to 7 lanes in either direction. Imagine a rush hour with two lanes of SOV traffic in each direction and five lanes of HOV traffic; now we're talking about moving people! There is certainly enough existing asphalt to allow for that many lanes (or possibily more) without increasing the I95 footprint. The darned-blasted barracades and shoulders waste lots of potential lane space, they could use that space to increase the traffic capacity on I95 by adding HOV lanes.

And despite your arguments, HOV4 is a viable alternative that offers relief without any cost. And there is lots of unused commuter parking at places like Springfield Mall, Potomac Mills, the Gambrill Rd lot, and Rolling Valley lot just to name a few. But likely this option will get little consideration; there's no money in it for anyone.

Know what Sponge, I am just brainstorming, I don't know the answers, but I've got some ideas, no better or worse than your's or anyone else's, just ideas. I think the system is very workable and don't want to see it ruined by those who think only of their interests or the profit potential. Like you, I get frustrated with some narrow, self-centered views, and I fear those views may dominate in conversations when decisions are made. We need not be so critical.


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2005 at 7:56am
quote:
Originally posted by MDC
[br]With all the posting, and I assume reading NoSUV does around here, I'm amazed that NoSUV never seems to learn anything new. Why ask about motorcycles again when it's been answered multiple times for you?

motorcycles - seasonal, and not growing in noticable numbers.
SOV hybrids - fill in the blank if you can, but it's nothing like motorcycles.


MDC - has to do with the raymond's post about express lanes being used during commuting hours for HOV-3 only, no exceptions. Motorcycles aren't HOV-3. Brings into question the difference between a motorcycle and a hybrid.
Now, using your argument, should the express lane exemption be for just motorcycles and Prius? Motorcycles and compact hybrids? You seem to think that it's the number of exemptions, not the exemption itself that is the problem.


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2005 at 8:03am
quote:
Originally posted by raymond
[br]I am suggesting that they add reversible lanes to the existing reversible HOV lanes. For example: with nine reversible lanes the traffic flow could be reduced to two lanes or increased up to 7 lanes in either direction. Imagine a rush hour with two lanes of SOV traffic in each direction and five lanes of HOV traffic; now we're talking about moving people! ... Like you, I get frustrated with some narrow, self-centered views, and I fear those views may dominate in conversations when decisions are made. We need not be so critical.


raymond - changing regular lanes to HOV lanes only exasperates the problem for the majority of commuters. Although express lanes move more people than regular lanes, it is because those lanes are MOVING - the regular lanes have a far higher concentration of people than the express lanes. Just look to your right!
Use the slug system to have one count cars and the other to keep time. See how many cars in the regular lanes you pass per minute. Do it when the regular lanes are moving and when they aren't. The rationlae for improving the regular lane commute becomes obvious - and there are far more voters in those regular lanes than the express lanes. Especially when you add the hybrid owners - who have enough cash to make nice contributions to state legislators.


Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2005 at 8:18am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
changing regular lanes to HOV lanes only exasperates the problem for the majority of commuters. Although express lanes move more people than regular lanes, it is because those lanes are MOVING - the regular lanes have a far higher concentration of people than the express lanes.

First two sentences conflict. If indeed the express lanes "move more people than regular lanes", then it follows that changing regular lanes to HOV lanes will NOT exasperate [sic] the problem for the majority of commuters. E.g., the majority of commuters is the "more people" (bad english no doubt, trying to retain original verbiage).


quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
Especially when you add the hybrid owners - who have enough cash to make nice contributions to state legislators.

Cash? Or credit?

NoSb

SOV because you can, HOV because you care!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2005 at 11:28am
NoSB: If the regular lanes moved at a the same speed as the express lanes, then more people would move in the regular lanes because of the higher concentration/density. Imagine the bumper-to-bumper traffic in the regular lanes moving at the speed limit, while the quite spacious (generally and relatively) distance between cars remains in the express lanes. You can check it by estimating how many cars would fit in those long stretches of few cars in the express lanes.


Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2005 at 2:30pm
NoSUV,
I suggest you contact the administrator and see about having a "motorcycles" section set up since you seem to be so concerned about them. I don't know anyone here that supports the motorcycle exemption, but it's not causing problems like the other exemption.

You keep arguing that the HOV lanes should move less people through exemptions, or HOT. Why not go for moving more people instead through more HOV participation? Is it because you don't want to participate?


Posted By: dickboyd
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2005 at 10:56pm
quote:
Originally posted by JoanA
[br]
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
If the regular lanes moved at a the same speed as the express lanes, then more people would move in the regular lanes because of the higher concentration/density.

Just to follow up on your statement with an anecdote from college. My queuing theory professor in college was involved in a traffic study conducted by the NY Port Authority to improve traffic movement through the Lincoln tunnel. Based upon their study of the tunnel they determined that the maximum number of cars which could pass go through the tunnel at any time was x (it was a few years back so I do not remember the figure). The Port Authority Police disagreed with the number. They maintained that it has been their experience that the number could be doubled if there were sufficient personnel positioned along the tunnel to encourage the drivers to maintain speed. This proposition was tested and the police number was validated. High speed and high volume is possible but the personnel requirement is prohibitively and high and is highly stressful to the police and the drivers.



Grenburg, H., "An Analysis of Traffic Flow," Operations Researdch 7, 79-85 (1959)

"...the data indicates that increasing the traffic density results in lower car velocities (although there is an exception in the data). The Merritt Parkway in Connecticut was also studied in this report. There were two separate measurement techniques. One for the Lincoln Tunnel, the other for the Merritt Parkway. The Lincoln Tunnel maximum flow was 1,600 vehicles per lane per hour traveling at a velocity of about 19 miles per hour at a density of 82 cars per mile. Merritt Parkway data was inconclusive as the velocity range of maximum flow was not observed.

From yet another report:

Flow into the Holland Tunnel was controlled to maintain density that provided maximum flow. "...momentarily stopping traffic would actually result in and increase flow!" Herman, R. and Gardels, K., "Vehiclular Traffic Flow," Scientific American 209 NO.6 December 1963, pp. 35-43.

Choke points upstream of bridges and tunnels ot insure maximum flow (or at least prevent congestion) are used for safety reasons. Properly designed, motorists don't even notice the choke points.

Agreed, the flow in a tunnel can be increased if motorists are forced to increase speed on the uphill sections. But no diesels, and no trucks in the mix, please. The increase might be 50%, from 1,600 vehicles per lane per hour to 2,400 vehicles per lane per hour. But that flow is possible for maybe 15 minutes before breaking down to all cars stopped, zero flow.

dickboyd@aol.com


Posted By: adjguy
Date Posted: 07 Dec 2005 at 6:07pm
I think you guys should just fight it out


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2005 at 1:39pm
Fighting is not necessary, but lively debates are welcome!

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect that. But an opinion that is well-founded on fact and offers practical, workable solution options for those involved in the debate is tough to argue with. That is why so many people argue with NoSUV. NoSUV offers selfish, ego-centric opinions (buses only in HOV, perpetual hybrid exemptions, HOT advocacy, among others), that serve the interests of a few who make specific decisions to follow NoSUVs train of thought. NoSUV's ideas consider a very narrow POV, one that does not advance the issues facing the majority of the commuting public.

There is no "right" or "wrong" in this discussion, only several versions of best compromise solutions. Ultimately, the best solutions should strive to serve the needs of the majority; those that involve small changes in habits for specific gains in the goals of improved traffic management, reduced fuel consumption and polution, and are condusive to changes in fickle individual preferences.

Marketers do not have a dog in this hunt! And that is what hybrids are, a marketing phenomenon designed to appeal to "green wanabees" who commute. As with any other vehicle, anytime a hybrid travels SOV in the HOV lanes it becomes part of the problem.


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 20 Dec 2005 at 2:45pm
Actually, the problem is that we have not insisted that EVERY vehicle manufactured or imported into the US is a hybrid. Can you imagine how much better the envirionment would be? How much fuel consumption could be lowered, along with gas prices?

How do we get to this better world? We can but hope that it becomes legislated by the federal government, but in the meantime, we can help on the demand side. How do you create a demand when the new product is more expensive than the new product? Either taxpayer subsidies (they are sometimes called tax credits - only a fool would fail to see that that one person's credit is another person's tax), or non-financial incentives. Thank goodness the Virginia government decided to choose the latter incentive. And, as a bonus, it helps with the OVERALL congestion! Keep looking to your right - are you generally passing cars in the regular lanes?

Hybrid exemptions are an overall win for everyone. Haven't found a single delegate against continuing the exemption. Have you?


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2006 at 2:34pm
NoSUV, your "better world" may be called "NoSUV Land," where everyone looks, thinks and acts like you, or it could be called "Fantasy Land," where your strange dreams come true, but it will never be called reality. There are too many different people with different tastes, preferences and priorities for a one-size-fits-all solution like hybrids.

How exactly does increased hybrid production and sales lower gas prices? And as long as we sell 15 million new cars each year in North America consumption is headed in only one direction, up.

If it looks and smells like a fish, guess what it is?! Any hybrid "solution" that burns fossil fuel is not a solution! Any vehicle that has less than three people is not HOV. Sorry, I'm with Willie on this one: BioDiesel is the future!


Posted By: bnvus
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2006 at 12:39pm
quote:
And, as a bonus, it helps with the OVERALL congestion!



Hybrids are not helping congestion. As long as you remain a single driver, you add to congestion. Carpooling helps congestion, not exemptions.


Posted By: Patriot37
Date Posted: 06 Jan 2006 at 12:11pm
Looking at the big picture, all possible options to move trafic, reduce congestion (on the road and parking) and cut emmisions should be welcomed. I take the train, bike and bus but usually slug 3-4 days per week. Having used every option that I'm aware of, slugging is by far the most efficient. There are times, however, that I must move to and from work outside of the HOV times (another issue). It's those times that the other mentioned options as well as my motorcycle and hybrid are a life saver.

As humans, I think we need incentives to introduce and grow improvements (i.e. hybrids and motorcycles and HOV lanes themselves). Without the incentives, who would really pay that much more for a car - who would bother to stop and pick up strangers?

Bikes do use much less fuel (50mpg+), put out less polution, less lane space (staggerd riding allows 10 bikes in the space of 3 small cars) and take much less parking space. Hybrids do use less fuel (30mpg and 38mpg in stop and go, yes, I keep track - for a family SUV, that's great) and this is just the beginning of what we can achieve, but only if there are buying dollars to push it. Incentives. Improvement.



Posted By: TROLL
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2006 at 12:30pm
Bikes are nice, but are you going to bike 25+ everyday to and from work? What about your suit, if you have to wear one, what about the rain, SNOW, and such?


Posted By: Patriot37
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2006 at 8:27pm
Well... as stated, I bike, bus, train and slug so of course I couldn't bike my 50+ miles every day. I do wear a suit every day and find it rides quite well or on the hot days, it lays nicely in the back. I don't mess with the snow at all (not since I was 18 anyway) and rairly mess with the rain. On the rain days, I'm happy to help a fellow slugger out of the rain. Oh, have you ever noticed how thin the rider line is on a rainy day? My umbrella works just fine. Happy days. See you on the road.


Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2006 at 12:06pm
The HOV commute stunk this morning and it took me almost 2 hrs to get in. Big part of it was the hybrids. Looked around. My driver and I agreed that on our section of the backup -about 40 percent hybrids. The politicos need to be reminded again and againt that they are going to pay for this.


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2006 at 12:38pm
Bob, Hybrids had NOTHING to do with your commute this morning. Express lanes were shut down just past the beltway for an accident.

Big part is that you can't seem to focus on where the problems are - instead, blaming everything on hybrids. Won't take long before you are blaming rain, drought, weeds, Redskins scores, and more on hybrids.


Posted By: mikester
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2006 at 2:12pm
Rain, drought, weeds? The more NoSuv posts the more unsensible he gets


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2006 at 3:30pm
mikester, try reading the whole post before responding. The point is that Bob was blaming his commute on 4/18 on hybrids - when it was really an zccident that caused the delays.



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