$35 one-way commute
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Category: Archived Slugging Topics
Forum Name: HOT Lanes Discussion
Forum Description: Post messages regarding High Occupancy Toll (HOT) lanes here.
URL: http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2225
Printed Date: 26 Apr 2024 at 9:31pm
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Topic: $35 one-way commute
Posted By: lakeridgeresident
Subject: $35 one-way commute
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2005 at 10:44am
An employee of the Metro Washington Council of Govnts just gave me the actual breakdown of what tolls ought to cost to inhibit congestion:
For a Lake Ridge resident, it's $35 into the city.
For a Fredericksburg resident, it's $41.21 to the city ONE WAY.
For exact numbers:
From DC to Shirlington Rd at $1.10 per mile = 4.40
From there to the beltway it's about $1 per mile, about $9
From there to Fairfax County Parkway, it's $1.60 per mile = 6.40
From there to PWC parkway, it's .80 per mile = $14.40
From there to Fredericksburg,it's .23 per mile = $6.21
Now, my milage may not be precise, but the price per mile is straight from the analysts.
I don't know about you, but we don't have $17,500 available for commuting. If too many people Slug, then the competing toll companies have mentioned they may have to charge HOVs.
How is this not a Lexus/Limo lane?
Send a letter to the editor of your newspaper. Rollison, the head of the VDOT advisory panel does not care what you think, and your elected officials have no say in the matter. At least when HOT happens, we can say we were not complacent about the decision.
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Replies:
Posted By: adjguy
Date Posted: 08 Oct 2005 at 10:14am
Rollison was unseated from the 52nd District delegates chair of VA after serving many years. Can he be unseated again? Is his current position appointed? My solution, remove the problem from power.
If he's not elected, who appointed him? If he doesnt care about how we think, I dont beleive he should be head of anything. Rumor has it that Rollison received endorsements from large companies responsible for buidling road projects in Virginia while he was running for delegate, I can see how he cares about us and where his interest lies.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2006 at 8:47am
This is an interesting post from about a year ago detailing HOT costs per mile.
Can anyone validate these numbers?
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 17 Aug 2006 at 10:39am
Raymond, reviving this post may be your best contribution ever to this board. I missed it the first time because I was essentially buried under the debris of Katrina for three months.
I did manage to make the final couple of public meetings in Woodbridge on the Tool Roads. The MWCOG rep did in fact give numbers very much like this in his presentation. Rollison, the useless old has-been, didn't blink an eye because his mind was made up before he was even appointed to the council. The public meetings were a sham. He, of course, does not use I95 to commute, but heads the commission that will determine the road's fate for the next 60 years. Brilliant!
The MWCOG numbers are absolute dead-certain proof of the arguments we've been making for over a year now. How is it that the Fredericksburg paper hasn't written about this? Has anyone ever seen these MWCOG numbers printed anywhere?
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Posted By: lakeridgeresident
Date Posted: 18 Aug 2006 at 2:51pm
Validation:
If you would like the government-supplied copy of these numbers, just ask VDOT for a copy of the "September 20, 2005 Regional Traffic Analysis of the Clark/Shirley and Fluor-Transurban I-95-395 HOT Lanes Proposals by the National Captial Region Transportation Planning Board Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments", specifically, Table 1, page 8. The map and prices are there, but the specific areas were given to me via e-mail from a VDOT admin assistant.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2006 at 9:14am
Thank you, lakeridgeresident... a year between posts -- probably a record for holding your breath.
Anyway, we owe you a big thanks, just like we owe Rollison and his committee a big kick in the....
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2006 at 1:45pm
The title of this thread is just too good to let it languish in this forum.
Can we please all realize that this will be our commute tab soon!
HOT is evil, these Pick-pocket lanes will make us poorer, only the rich-but-foolish will be able to ride in these lanes!
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2006 at 4:15pm
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Not if car pools are free.[;)]
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Posted By: CallmeMrSlug
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2006 at 8:27pm
How soon Sludge forgets this important quote about where carpoolers stand if the HOT lane gets busy...you WILL pay the toll!
The quote from the May 2004 article in the Metro Section by Stephen Ginsberg
Virginia officials said plans for HOT lanes call for electronic
tolling at set on-and-off points. They said their main challenge is
designing a roadway that doesn't get clogged by carpoolers, as is
starting to happen on HOV lanes, so that there is room for enough
paying customers to finance the road project.
So once the road gets jammed, carpoolers get the shaft, to think otherwise is naive...
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2006 at 10:11am
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So call me naive .... VDOT's official website says HOV-3+ car pools will NOT pay a toll. Your quote says it will be a challenge to keep it that way, but it does not say carpools will definitely pay. The lanes won't be built for several years, toll technology and lessons-learned will improve over that period, and tolls plus free HOV-3 will give a bigger incentive for more car pools. That will definitely address the hybrid and other SOV exemptions that many complain about, because they will pay the SOV toll. I applaud many of you being suspicious. We need more WatchDogs, but I'm not ready to jump on the doom-&-gloom bandwagon yet. When the Commonwealth says "car pools will pay", I'll then need a seat on your wagon. Just haven't seen any hard evidence from VDOT - just website speculation -- that declares "all HOT users must pay." BTW, What's the envisioned toll from the P'gon to the Va 644 and Va 6900 HOT exits gonna be?
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Posted By: lakeridgeresident
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2006 at 3:12pm
sluDgE,
Those of us who have done the research know that overly successful HOT lanes have already charged HOV-3 vehicles. In california on SR 91, HOVs pay half what SOVs pay in the HOT lanes. That is reality.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2006 at 10:02am
sludge, by the time they say carpoolers will pay, it will be a done deal, too late, finito, end of the line, all she wrote! BTW, the fee schedule will not come from VDOT. If it did, we may have some input. Fluor will set the prices based on a business case to recapture and profit from their investment in constructing the lanes.
Check previous posts on this forum that list the proposed fee schedule for your gate-to-gate tolls.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2006 at 10:05am
SluDge, you haven't done enough research.
Just because current law says that HOV-3 will be free, does not mean that laws cannot be changed.
Even IF HOV-3 remains free forever, the proposed changes to the lanes (bottlenecks at each end, over a dozen new entrances and exits, tolls for using the road in the middle of the night, reduced safety, and so on,) should be enough to cause you to oppose it.
But the ultimate argument is simple fairness.
Most people (probably you) won't be able to afford to commute on these lanes solo. Toll roads are inherently unfair. They create a special, privileged, elite level of public service available not to those doing something for the common good (carpoolers and yes, hybrid owners) but only to the wealthy.
I have no problem with someone building a brand new road, on their own dime, and charging a toll for its use. But I have a real hard time with changing a publicly built road into a privately owned facility that enriches a corporation, encourages solo commuting, and benefits only the well-off.
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2006 at 12:51pm
Here's how it goes in California:
Q: When can I use the 3+ Carpool Lane?
A: Effective May 19, 2003, when you travel on the Express Lanes with 3 or more people in your vehicle, you can use the 3+ Lane and you will travel toll-free, except when traveling Eastbound, Monday through Friday between the hours of 4:00 p.m. and 6:00 p.m. During that peak time, when traveling through the 3+ Carpool Lane you will receive a 50% discount on the posted toll. This policy also applies to individuals on a motorcycle.
If you have a Standard Plan, Convenience Plan, or Express Club account, on days when you have fewer than 3 occupants in your car, please stay in one of the lanes marked “Toll Lanes” as you travel through the toll zone.
As a reminder, California State Law requires motorists traveling on the 91 Express Lanes, whether traveling alone or with others, to have a Transponder properly mounted on their vehicle, and a valid FasTrak account. This law is enforced by the California Highway Patrol and can carry fines up to $500. So please be sure your account is always in good standing and your transponder is properly mounted in your vehicle. We want your commute to be fast, safe, and reliable each time to travel the 91.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2006 at 1:01pm
Sounds like they have an enforcement method, too - perhaps Sponge doesn't have his facts right.
91 requires you to register the vehicle tags with the transponder. I wonder if that's so they can use video technology to capture the tags of violators - either those in the carpool lane illegally or those in the toll lane without any transponder. They could do like DC and just send the owner of the vehicle the ticket.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 20 Sep 2006 at 3:09pm
Apples and orangutans, NoSUV, apples and orangutans.
SR-91 is a four-lane (i.e. non-reversing) ten mile long custom-built toll road that hasn't lived up to the financial promises its creators made.
There is ONE entrance and ONE exit going in each direction. There is ONE tolling point. Carpools ARE charged during rush hour. So are motorcycles.
http://www.91expresslanes.com/learnabout/snapshot.asp
Actually, HOV-3 is enforced by diverting the carpools into a special lane at the ONE tollbooth. Per Wikipedia: "The carpool rules are enforced by a special video camera near the toll transceiver array or "booth" at the halfway point of the road. The camera room is occasionally staffed by a live person, and tapes are reviewed, to ensure that only carpoolers or other permitted vehicles get to travel for free or get the discount."
Tonight from 4-6 PDST, it will cost $0.85/mile to use the toll road, which I know because they do not use variable pricing, but instead go through a process like an electric utility rate increase -- publicly. Our toll roads won't have that public review of the pricing structure. They will jack the price up as high as needed to keep the lanes free-flowing.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2006 at 12:07pm
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Sponge - it's 2 lanes each direction. Division made from regular lanes by first big white lines and as you get closer to the toll point, tall cones.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2006 at 3:18pm
Sure and lucky dogs like me will get off with a $19.80 toll each way.
Aren't you lucky you don't have to deal with these lanes at all! Your commute from LRT to the Navy yard will be a breeze when all those former HOV commuters are dumped on to the side streets and non-HOV lanes. NOT! Wait, you thought they would keep the high-bred exemption. Not likely.
Wait, if you don't use the HOV lanes, and you don't slug, you don't carpool, and you don't use mass transit, why are you here? Agitator? Mole? Political activist? Spy? Lobbist for hybrid manufacturers? Hmmmmmm, TROLL!
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2006 at 10:22am
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There's also the factor that HOV cars will not even be let on if it reaches capacity. All access will be cut of at that point, according to the developer in one of the meetings.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2006 at 12:20pm
I keep seeing this headline, and each time I shudder with fear. How will we all get to work when we are forced to pay these ransoms?
SOV hybrids and HOV carpoolers/slugs need to realize that we will all be affected! MDC is correct here; when the load:capacity ratio reaches the threshold (to the congestion point that we are already reaching in am/pm rush hour), and the "system" realizes that it is "losing" money to HOVs, we will be forced to pay or we will be kicked off!
We have been sold out by our elected officials who are dodging their fiduciary responsibilities to balance their budgets, and instead they are shedding the financial obligations of highway maintenance by selling the "revenue/profit rights" to contractors. I thought our property tax dollars were already paying for highway maintenance! If not, then where are our taxes going? I thought our local politicians were supposed to be working in our best interest! Why then are these taxpayer pick-pocketing shell games being pushed through?
WE WILL ALL PAY!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2006 at 8:33am
raymond - if hybrids lose their express lane exemption, I'd be willing to pay a toll rather than go in the regular lanes. Tough that you'd have to pay a toll as well.
Fight them all, lose them all.
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Posted By: darkprime
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2006 at 8:15am
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If you are willing to pay a toll, then you sure are well off enough not to need a tax deduction to buy a hybrid in the first place. Care to give any of that tax deduction back to those who can use it to help the environment? Perhaps you can use it to give free bus tokens to slugs to get them to try out the bus?
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2006 at 9:28am
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dark - so, you fail at both physics AND reading comprehension. Read the post again. If you have kids, maybe they can explain it to you.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 14 Dec 2006 at 3:21pm
bumping up
BTW, HOT means "Have Other Transportation ready" because we will all need to find other ways to get to DC. No good options; VRE is expensive and unreliable, METRO is expensive/crowded/dirty/slow. HOT lanes will be expensive, and eventually will fill up and get as slow as the Hybrid-choked HOV lanes are now.
Only 15 years until retirement! Whopee!
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2006 at 7:12am
Raymond,
Bicycles! [:p]
We can have SOB lanes!
(That's "Singles On Bikes")
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2006 at 8:09am
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Will you still pick up slugs?
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Posted By: LDOMAJ
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2006 at 11:39am
quote:
Originally posted by raymond
[br]Will you still pick up slugs?
Only with a tandem bike (no more snoozing on the way in)[:I]
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 15 Dec 2006 at 4:54pm
quote:
Originally posted by LDOMAJ
[br]quote:
Originally posted by raymond
[br]Will you still pick up slugs?
Only with a tandem bike (no more snoozing on the way in)[:I]
Ouch! You mean you'd make a slug DO something for a ride? Besides just show up?
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 28 Dec 2006 at 9:53pm
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Bumping a real topic above all the spam trash.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 05 Jan 2007 at 3:38pm
Always the smart-alec, NoSUV! Tsk, tsk... I drove and picked up slugs for years, and I still drive and pick up slugs several days a month. Besides, even a snoozing slug is contributing to solving our eco/traffic/fuel problems! A snoozing slug in my back seat is one less car on the road. A snoozing former SOV hybrid driver in my back seat still reduces smog, fuel consumption and traffic congestion. Care to give it a try? It sounds as though you could use a little more sleep.
This is still the sacriest forum heading on this site! Scary because its entirely possible based on what I have seen on HOT lanes.
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Posted By: chowderbutt
Date Posted: 09 Mar 2007 at 3:53pm
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I'm leading the springfield bike slug-line when weather gets nicer on monday and fridays - starts at commerce street dunkin donuts, it takes about the same time as the metro to get into the city.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 14 Mar 2007 at 1:15pm
Ignoring chowderbut, keeping this discussion alive and bumping up above the spam.
Hey admin, I see you have instuted a 120 second delay between postings, great! Now how about a little help taking out the trash?!
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