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Hybrid Owners You took Over HOV now out web site?

Printed From: Slug-Lines.com
Category: Archived Slugging Topics
Forum Name: Hybrids
Forum Description: This area is devoted to the discussion of hybrid vehicles and their impact to the HOV.
URL: http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2563
Printed Date: 24 Nov 2017 at 3:31pm
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Topic: Hybrid Owners You took Over HOV now out web site?
Posted By: duckduffer
Subject: Hybrid Owners You took Over HOV now out web site?
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 8:10am
Not sure what the deal is? Why are so many Hybrid (selfish) owners here? This is for Sluggers and people who want to know more about slugging. Since a 99% of you do not want to use the slug alternative, why are you here?

I am not going to argue any of the MPG and the tax breaks for buying a Hybrid. Nor do I want to hear about the maintain ace costs! What I want to hear about is how you are really trying to take more cars off the roads. How can we as a society, work on getting out of this transportation mess we are in. Somehow saying single Passenger Hybrids is the answer does not stand merits. I only create more problems.

What happens during the summer months when the temp is 95+, you are going to turn on the A/C, what happens then to your gas mileage you so righteously tout? Ever think about how much energy your satellite radio and cell phone charger take away from the batteries? Maybe not a lot, maybe a lot I really do not know or care. What I care about is you trying to take over HOV-3 and making my commute longer.

Get your own damn website and live your fantasy there. Do not come here and tout your fantasy to us, who stand in the cold lines waiting for people who care about the transportation issues. The 1% of you hybrid owners who come pick up slugs or carpool, I say Thank you for caring and not being selfish.



Replies:
Posted By: SillyBilly
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 8:58am
YEAH! gET OUT OF HERE YOU CRACK HEAD HYBRID OWNERS![:(!]


Posted By: TROLL
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 9:02am
It'd be nice if the hybrid owners would help with commuting. If gas mileage is really a plus on hybrids, what's the problem with taking a couple of passengers going the same way?
When I'm riding in a car that struggles to make it up to 55 mph and I see a single driver in a hybrid, I think: why couldn't that guy have given us a ride in that hybrid that is going the same way?
Selfishness.........[:(]


Posted By: duckduffer
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 9:34am
Sorry about the spelling.. guess I look like a crackhead myself.. Have to calm down when I write these posts!!


Posted By: SillyBilly
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 11:24am
It's the crackheads fault! those hybrid owners are creating confusion!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 12:47pm
duckduffer - the reason I post on here is because this site was used as a source for Washington Post articles. I know most slugs prefer EVERYONE to agree with them and do whatever they can to squash dissenting views, but at least reporters can see that not everyone agrees with free loading, selfish (I got mine, screw everyone else), unwilling to use public transportation, non-environmentally aware persons.


Posted By: duckduffer
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 1:07pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]duckduffer - the reason I post on here is because this site was used as a source for Washington Post articles. I know most slugs prefer EVERYONE to agree with them and do whatever they can to squash dissenting views, but at least reporters can see that not everyone agrees with free loading, selfish (I got mine, screw everyone else), unwilling to use public transportation, non-environmentally aware persons.



And just who do you think you are to judge me like that? The Slug process is a something that both benefits the drivers and slugs. People need to drive and people need a ride. Not all of us can afford 300-400 a month for Mass Transit. When I drive I pick up slugs, when I do not drive I slug. If you don’t like the process, don’t come here and bash it, okay!

And just what Wash Post article are you talking about? Are you too selfish to go spend your 35 cents and pay for the Post.. Screw us and get your information for free?

Ever comment I have read has bashed me and I frankly am sick of you. Please take your rude comments and go create your own web site!

How do you commute to work?


Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 1:15pm
NoSUV drives a hybrid on his way to the car dealership where he sells overpriced hybrids to "selfish (I got mine, screw everyone else), unwilling to use public transportation, non-environmentally aware persons."

He sold me mine so I could SOV up/down the HOV lanes.

NoSb

SOV because you can, HOV because you care!


Posted By: duckduffer
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2006 at 6:55pm
quote:
Originally posted by N_or_S_bound
[br]NoSUV drives a hybrid on his way to the car dealership where he sells overpriced hybrids to "selfish (I got mine, screw everyone else), unwilling to use public transportation, non-environmentally aware persons."

He sold me mine so I could SOV up/down the HOV lanes.

NoSb

SOV because you can, HOV because you care!



So why doesn't Mr. Everyone Use Mass Transportation using FRED to get to work? Afraid he might have to stand out in cold and wait for FRED to pick him up?
Like to know if NoSUV is brave enough to state what Car Dealership he works at?


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2006 at 10:08am
I don't work for a car dealership = never have. Check my previous posts and I state quite clearly that I purchased my hybrid before accepting a position in this region.

NoSB is unwilling to help solve environmental problems today, in terms of global warming, pollution, and fuel consumption by buying something that is better - waiting instead for the "perfect" solution. And in the meantime, bashing anyone who does try to make a difference. NoSB would have more credibility if non-commuting miles were environmentally sound - in my hybrid, ALL my miles pollute less and use less fuel. How many annual miles are you putting on your gas guzzler that are not with a car pool?


Posted By: Beckie5
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2006 at 2:59pm
NoSUV - Are you posting your remarks from your job? ARe you a Gov't employee? If you are then thanks for wasting my tax dollars! After all you have a lot of posts. Also, this is a web site for slugging not for Hybrid Owners. So get off of our Slugging message board.


Posted By: mikester
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2006 at 3:17pm
Theres a lot more people can do for the environment than driving or not driving a hybrid.


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2006 at 4:31pm
quote:
Originally posted by Beckie5
[br]NoSUV - Are you posting your remarks from your job? ARe you a Gov't employee? If you are then thanks for wasting my tax dollars! After all you have a lot of posts. Also, this is a web site for slugging not for Hybrid Owners. So get off of our Slugging message board.


Beckie5 - Are YOU a Gov't employee? If you are then thanks for wasting my tax dollars! After all you seem to be reading a lot of posts. Also, this portion of the web site is on hybrids.


Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2006 at 4:36pm
NoSUV,
You forget that the biggest way to help the environment is to put more people in less cars. You seem to oppose that unless you are exempted.


Posted By: Beckie5
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2006 at 4:58pm
NoSUV - No I'm not a government employee - I and I'm not using work time to post either. I own a business in Crystal City.


Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2006 at 5:22pm
Dear Beckie and others who are telling hybrid owners to go away,

You are in a special section of the Slug Line message board labeled Hybrids. What better place for a discussion of hybrids?

Here, take two "DUHs" and see you in the general discussion area.




Kindest Regards,

mroyal


Posted By: duckduffer
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2006 at 3:41am
quote:
Originally posted by mroyal
[br]Dear Beckie and others who are telling hybrid owners to go away,

You are in a special section of the Slug Line message board labeled Hybrids. What better place for a discussion of hybrids?

Here, take two "DUHs" and see you in the general discussion area.




Kindest Regards,

mroyal



Yes Mr Royal this does say Hybrids.. but the web site says Slug-Lines. This is about slugging.. not about selfish people who can afford to but a 3-4 passenger car and use it to drive them selves into work cause they can afford to.
I wish you people would stop coming here and wasting the space that is dedicated to slugging and how to make it better! The owner of this website is spending their own money so that you can commuter faster to work, not for you to tout your selfishness.


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2006 at 2:34pm
dumbduck: I guess you needed to know the history behind this category. The General Comment board became fairly clogged with anti-hybrid rantings such as yours, so Admin made the brilliant decision to create a separate portion of the board to discuss how wonderful hybrids actually are.


Posted By: duckduffer
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2006 at 7:00pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]dumbduck: I guess you needed to know the history behind this category. The General Comment board became fairly clogged with anti-hybrid rantings such as yours, so Admin made the brilliant decision to create a separate portion of the board to discuss how wonderful hybrids actually are.


oh is that the best you can do you selfish person? Explain why you are here on a slug line site?




Posted By: duckduffer
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2006 at 7:00pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]dumbduck: I guess you needed to know the history behind this category. The General Comment board became fairly clogged with anti-hybrid rantings such as yours, so Admin made the brilliant decision to create a separate portion of the board to discuss how wonderful hybrids actually are.


oh is that the best you can do you selfish person? Explain why you are here on a slug line site?




Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2006 at 4:08pm
quote:
Originally posted by duckduffer
[br]
Yes Mr Royal this does say Hybrids.. but the web site says Slug-Lines. This is about slugging.. not about selfish people who can afford to but a 3-4 passenger car and use it to drive them selves into work cause they can afford to.
I wish you people would stop coming here and wasting the space that is dedicated to slugging and how to make it better! The owner of this website is spending their own money so that you can commuter faster to work, not for you to tout your selfishness.



You know, whenever you find yourself using the term "you people", you should stop typing/speaking because you are making a generalization and you will ALWAYS be wrong. I think there is much more space wasted on this board by ignorant rants and raves, like yours.


Kindest Regards,

mroyal


Posted By: duckduffer
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2006 at 11:35am
quote:
Originally posted by mroyal
[br]
quote:
Originally posted by duckduffer
[br]
Yes Mr Royal this does say Hybrids.. but the web site says Slug-Lines. This is about slugging.. not about selfish people who can afford to but a 3-4 passenger car and use it to drive them selves into work cause they can afford to.
I wish you people would stop coming here and wasting the space that is dedicated to slugging and how to make it better! The owner of this website is spending their own money so that you can commuter faster to work, not for you to tout your selfishness.



You know, whenever you find yourself using the term "you people", you should stop typing/speaking because you are making a generalization and you will ALWAYS be wrong. I think there is much more space wasted on this board by ignorant rants and raves, like yours.


Kindest Regards,

mroyal



Posted By: VA_Hybrid
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2006 at 10:02pm
quote:
Originally posted by Beckie5
[br]NoSUV - Are you posting your remarks from your job? ARe you a Gov't employee? If you are then thanks for wasting my tax dollars! After all you have a lot of posts. Also, this is a web site for slugging not for Hybrid Owners. So get off of our Slugging message board.


If this website is for Sluggin, why is ther a section named Hybrid?
No entiendo.


Posted By: PennyPrius
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2006 at 11:24pm
Let me get this str8t, people who slug ar good and Hybroid owners are bad? Gimme a break. People who pick up slugs also do it so they can ride the HOV lanes and avoid the traffic on the regular side. I am sure there are those who do it for more altruistic reasons, but not as many as there are who do it for themselves. The world is a harsh place, welcome to it.


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 15 Sep 2006 at 1:30pm
Penny, Its not a simple good vs. bad argument. And no one says that hybrid owners are bad, just SOV hybrid commuters in the HOV lanes. There is a place for everyone, and SOV commuters belong in the regular lanes. If you do the right thing, your motives are secondary. No one cares why you carpool, just that you do it! Believe me, I would love to see all those SOV hybrid drivers line up in the slug lines, picking up cheerful and appreciative slug riders!

Ex. hybrid gets 50 MPG x 4 passengers = 200 passenger MPGs. Plus that one hybrid took 3 other cars off the road, and reduced vehicle emmissions by 75% (100% divided by 4 cars x 1 car). Now that's eco-smart!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2006 at 8:02am
raymond - you still forgot to account for non-commuting miles in your vehicle.


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2006 at 9:53am
I wasn't doing a comparison, NoSUV, I was just making a statement. When we carpool we all win!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2006 at 2:52pm
so do the comparison! Of course, the facts will be against you.


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 26 Sep 2006 at 11:31am
What facts? When we carpool we don't all win? Hmmmmm...

You need to learn to live with other people! There is a place for everyone, and SOV commuters belong in the regular lanes.

All those SOV hybrid drivers should pick up cheerful and appreciative slug riders! Here's a fact: if hybrid gets 50 MPG x 4 passengers = 200 passenger MPGs. Plus that one hybrid took 3 other cars off the road, and reduced vehicle emmissions by 75% (100% divided by 4 cars x 1 car). That's the way everyone wins with carpooling!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2006 at 9:14pm
raymond - alternate fuel vehicles and buses belong in the express lanes. No one else.


Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2006 at 9:49am
Folks, let's all agree not to debate this last statement by NoSUV.

I mean, really, it's just not worth considering.

This thread is [xx(]


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2006 at 8:55pm
right, sponge - you just want to help bring about the destruction of the world. Have to get rid of ALL non-alternate fuel vehicles ASAP. Of course, you've been following the scientific evidence as well as the CA lawsuit.

Or maybe you just don't care. I guess you just don't have kids, and figure the world ends when you die anyway.


Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2006 at 12:16pm
NEWS FLASH: Hybrid gas/electric vehicles SAVE THE PLANET from utter destruction!

In the latest promotional advertisement by automobile manufacturers, they can now promise you Utopia here on Earth IF you would only trash your current vehicle by dropping it off at your county landfill and immmediately call Toyota (1-800-BUY-HYPE) for a hybrid taxi to take you to the nearest Toyota dealership where you will be able to purchase your own Special Edition hybrid entitled: "Utopian Hybridization".

One Toyota marketeer recently intimated a larger plan in which federal law would be make it illegal to drive the majority of existing vehicles currently in use today. His comment: "We do plan for this to be a federal law where we can imprison those who refuse to purchase a hybrid vehicle. I mean, like, you wanna save the whole world, right? Buy a hybrid! We have THE plan!".

Guess we found the Messiah, eh?


NoSb

SOV because you can, HOV because you care!


Posted By: ronin718
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2006 at 2:53pm
So does that mean Ford and Honda hybrids are not permitted in the AFV lanes? [:D][:p][:o)][}:)]


Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2006 at 12:53pm
It's similar to all restaurants in the future being called Taco Bell....forget the movie, but the analogy works.

NoSb

SOV because you can, HOV because you care!


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 04 Oct 2006 at 3:16pm
I think SOV hybrids belong in the bowling lanes, not the HOV lanes.


Posted By: scottt
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2006 at 8:31am
quote:
Originally posted by N_or_S_bound
[br]It's similar to all restaurants in the future being called Taco Bell....forget the movie, but the analogy works.

NoSb

SOV because you can, HOV because you care!



Demolition Man


Posted By: TWO
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2008 at 3:30pm
First, my $0.02. I think the idea behind a hybrid is great. It's a step towards consuming less petroleum. But, it's only a small first step. I think the American consumer is fooled if they think the hybrid is the answer. And judging by their sales, it's true.

Now we move to HOV lane debate. I have to side with the slugs on this one. I've been commuting from Springfield to NW DC for the past 10 years and have seen the HOV lanes getting more and more crowded with hybrids. I know at one time the dealers around here were advertising "buy a hybrid, get in the HOV lanes"!

Let's face it, you pay top dollar for a hybrid car to use it in the HOV lanes. Doesn't that smell like HOT lanes? Yeah, hybrids paid a toll alright. Why can't they pickup slugs? Are they too good for that? Too lazy?

That's great you're doing your part to save the environment, but if you picked up a few riders, you would be doing that much more, while easing the congestion.

Funny how the law was originally written "alternative fuel" vehicles can use HOV, which specifically excluded gasoline. Where does diesel fit into that? That's much more efficient than gas.

I know quite a few people that bought hybrids only for the purpose of saving on their fuel bills and never intended on using HOV lanes. More power to you. I occasionally see hybrids with three people in the car. More power to you. But buying a hybrid solely for the purpose of riding in the HOV? tsk tsk.

Hybrids=HOT


Posted By: Drive3
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2008 at 2:30pm
I posted this in the "General" section, but I guess it really belongs with the Hybrid discussions. Here's a small article from today's Potomac News related to 2 VA delegates trying to keep hybrids in the HOV lanes for another year. Depressing!

http://www.potomacnews.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WPN%2FMGArticle%2FWPN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173354244246&path=!news

[V]


Posted By: Jody
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2008 at 3:03pm
From article:

"Exemption applies to all hybrid vehicles on I-66 and those registered after 7-1-2006 on I-395 and I-95"

I'm confused. I thought the VA legislature passed a law that any hybrid bought AFTER 7-1-2006, was required to have carry the requisite no. of people to access HOV lanes. Hybrids purchased between 2000 and 6-30-2006 have the exemption.

At least I have the bill no. to email my delegate who will, once again, send me the empty response that he will "carefully review the bill" and then vote the hybrid exemption be extended another yr.




Posted By: Drive3
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2008 at 12:13pm
Looks like the local media, "Potomac News," is backing the hybrid exemption in HOV for another year. Article is poorly written with no real data, just their opinion. Obviously, they don't drive on 95 or 66, among the SOV hybrids slowing everyone down: http://www.potomacnews.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WPN/MGArticle/WPN_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1173354265283

Don't get your hopes up HOV'ers. I have a bad feeling that the hybrids will be with us until the HOT lanes are implemented. I just wish those hybrid drivers who claim to care about the environment will take 2 more cars off the road by picking up slugs or setting up their own carpools. Nuff said!


Posted By: Luddite
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2008 at 4:54pm
Jody,
The POS Potomac News got a fundamental fact wrong (about the exemption) Shocking! No correction so far. Few know this, but the Potomac News is published by students at a little known community college.


Posted By: TheYeti
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2008 at 3:00pm
One of my favorite bumper stickers.

"My Jeep is using what your Hybrid is saving."


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2008 at 10:35am
quote:
Originally posted by TWO
[br]Funny how the law was originally written "alternative fuel" vehicles can use HOV, which specifically excluded gasoline. Where does diesel fit into that? That's much more efficient than gas.

Hybrids=HOT


TWO,

I think Bob is going to stop deleting my posts, so I'll try this again. The law to allow hybrids was NOT based on fuel economy, but emissions, which is why diesel doesn't fit. If you read the literature, hybrids similar to the Prius pollute only 20% (a factor of 5x) of similarly sized vehicles, are 15x less polluting than conventional SUVs, and 45x less polluting than Hummers.

At best, you need to be HOV-5 to keep up.


Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2008 at 12:08pm
No spams, no deletions. As before.


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2008 at 12:35pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]
quote:
Originally posted by TWO
[br]Funny how the law was originally written "alternative fuel" vehicles can use HOV, which specifically excluded gasoline. Where does diesel fit into that? That's much more efficient than gas.

Hybrids=HOT


TWO,

I think Bob is going to stop deleting my posts, so I'll try this again. The law to allow hybrids was NOT based on fuel economy, but emissions, which is why diesel doesn't fit. If you read the literature, hybrids similar to the Prius pollute only 20% (a factor of 5x) of similarly sized vehicles, are 15x less polluting than conventional SUVs, and 45x less polluting than Hummers.

At best, you need to be HOV-5 to keep up.



Why stop there? Think how green you'll be when you fill up all those empty seats in your hybrid! You'll increase your PMPG effeciency 400%, and you'll take three other cars off the road! You'll reduce traffic congestion, reduce pollution and help your fellow commuters. You could be a REAL hero! But...

No! NoSUV will not carpool, pick up slugs, or do anything but remain ego-centric and vain. NoSUV will ride alone with the windows up (heaven forbid NoSUV should breath any air that is not micro-filtered), NoSUV will point and scowl at carpoolers with cars full of happy commuters, NoSUV will remain indignant and self-important, and NoSUV will criticize. NoSUV is a hypocrit!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2008 at 2:13pm
quote:
Originally posted by raymond
[br]
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]
quote:
Originally posted by TWO
[br]Funny how the law was originally written "alternative fuel" vehicles can use HOV, which specifically excluded gasoline. Where does diesel fit into that? That's much more efficient than gas.

Hybrids=HOT


TWO,

I think Bob is going to stop deleting my posts, so I'll try this again. The law to allow hybrids was NOT based on fuel economy, but emissions, which is why diesel doesn't fit. If you read the literature, hybrids similar to the Prius pollute only 20% (a factor of 5x) of similarly sized vehicles, are 15x less polluting than conventional SUVs, and 45x less polluting than Hummers.

At best, you need to be HOV-5 to keep up.



Why stop there? Think how green you'll be when you fill up all those empty seats in your hybrid! You'll increase your PMPG effeciency 400%, and you'll take three other cars off the road! You'll reduce traffic congestion, reduce pollution and help your fellow commuters. You could be a REAL hero! But...

No! NoSUV will not carpool, pick up slugs, or do anything but remain ego-centric and vain. NoSUV will ride alone with the windows up (heaven forbid NoSUV should breath any air that is not micro-filtered), NoSUV will point and scowl at carpoolers with cars full of happy commuters, NoSUV will remain indignant and self-important, and NoSUV will criticize. NoSUV is a hypocrit!


raymond,
Tell us all again why it is that YOU don't have a hybrid! Is it because you NEVER intend to pay your own way to commute? Are you willing to say that you do not drive AT ALL? Of course, any miles you put on a non-hybrid makes it worse for every inhabitant in the world. Tell us WHY you don't care!!!

To be fair, the HOV lanes need to be HOV-5 to keep up with the hybrids. After all, extinction of life seems to be a bit more important than your free ride.


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2008 at 2:39pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]
quote:
Originally posted by raymond
[br]
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]
quote:
Originally posted by TWO
[br]Funny how the law was originally written "alternative fuel" vehicles can use HOV, which specifically excluded gasoline. Where does diesel fit into that? That's much more efficient than gas.

Hybrids=HOT


TWO,

I think Bob is going to stop deleting my posts, so I'll try this again. The law to allow hybrids was NOT based on fuel economy, but emissions, which is why diesel doesn't fit. If you read the literature, hybrids similar to the Prius pollute only 20% (a factor of 5x) of similarly sized vehicles, are 15x less polluting than conventional SUVs, and 45x less polluting than Hummers.

At best, you need to be HOV-5 to keep up.



Why stop there? Think how green you'll be when you fill up all those empty seats in your hybrid! You'll increase your PMPG effeciency 400%, and you'll take three other cars off the road! You'll reduce traffic congestion, reduce pollution and help your fellow commuters. You could be a REAL hero! But...

No! NoSUV will not carpool, pick up slugs, or do anything but remain ego-centric and vain. NoSUV will ride alone with the windows up (heaven forbid NoSUV should breath any air that is not micro-filtered), NoSUV will point and scowl at carpoolers with cars full of happy commuters, NoSUV will remain indignant and self-important, and NoSUV will criticize. NoSUV is a hypocrit!


raymond,
Tell us all again why it is that YOU don't have a hybrid! Is it because you NEVER intend to pay your own way to commute? Are you willing to say that you do not drive AT ALL? Of course, any miles you put on a non-hybrid makes it worse for every inhabitant in the world. Tell us WHY you don't care!!!

To be fair, the HOV lanes need to be HOV-5 to keep up with the hybrids. After all, extinction of life seems to be a bit more important than your free ride.



Free ride? I drive about half the time, and I pick up 2 or 3 slugs improving my Passenger MPGs, taking 2 - 3 cars off the road, reducing traffic. How about you?

With 4 people in my car I get 80 Passenger MPGs (4 passengers x 20 MPGs) reducing fuel consumption vs. your SOV hybrid at 30 - 40 PMPGs.

I make friends with everyone I share rides with. How about you?

I make a dedicated effort to do something positive for myself and others. You bought a hybrid. Nice try!

BTW, check your gas gauge sometime; it will remind you that your hybrid runs on gas too!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2008 at 3:37pm
raymond,
quit using gasoline person miles per gallon and use emission person miles per gallon. It's not about the gas you use, it's about the harm to the environment.

The only way you can get the same as a SOV hybrid is to have 4 people in your small vehicle ALL of the time! Do you? If you have a SUV, you need 15 people ALL of the time. Do you?

You are NOT making a dedicated effort unless you are reducing emissions to the point of a hybrid. Try taking the bus or buy a hybrid - then, and only then, will you be making a dedicated effort to slow the extinction of life on earth.

You know, we went over this before - my vehicle doesn't need to have a state mandated emissions check. DOES YOURS?


Posted By: TWO
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2008 at 3:51pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
TWO,

I think Bob is going to stop deleting my posts, so I'll try this again. The law to allow hybrids was NOT based on fuel economy, but emissions, which is why diesel doesn't fit. If you read the literature, hybrids similar to the Prius pollute only 20% (a factor of 5x) of similarly sized vehicles, are 15x less polluting than conventional SUVs, and 45x less polluting than Hummers.

At best, you need to be HOV-5 to keep up.



I don't follow your math, but one of the laws written years ago about the HOV lanes, was allowing cars that did not use gasoline as a fuel. Natural gas, propane, full electric (and ultimately hydrogen?) fall in that category. The way I interperted it was, the lawmakers allowed the hybrids into the HOV lanes probably to help promote alternatively powered cars (and us Americans hate diesel). Then of course lobbyists come into play, and now the lanes are flooded with SOV hybrids.

Like I said in my previous post, I think hybrids are a first step and a great idea, but the HOV lanes have definitely become slower over the last few years. I notice a lot of SOV hybrids around me just about everytime I'm in the HOV lanes. Why can't they pickup riders too? (in their defense, I've noticed about three per week, HOV-3 hybrids - WAY TO GO PEOPLE!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2008 at 10:48am
TWO:
Some probable misconceptions. Hybrids were allowed because of partial battery usage for prime mover. Conventional vehicles, including diesel, don't do that. The goal was NOT for gas reduction, although that was a bi-product, but emissions reduction. This was for all non-motorcycle exemptions to the carpool requirement to use the express lanes during peak commuting hours. (HOV is a misnomer, and the use of that term has given rise to HOT - a toll for 7/24. Currently, HOV is only for a minority period of the day. Because people use HOV lanes, it made it simple for the legislature to replace HOV with HOT.)

The claim that the lanes are "flooded" with hybrids is also a misconception based mostly on your frame of reference. You don't like hybrids in the express lanes, so you see hybrids when you can't go 80 mph. Let's pretend that hybrids were 20% of the traffic. Wouldn't it stand to reason that 20% of the accidents in the express lanes were also hybrid vehicles? Yet that's clearly not the case. Think of all of the express lane accidents and estimate the ratio of conventional vehicles to hybrids.


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2008 at 10:49am
quote:
Originally posted by TWO
[br]
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
TWO,

I think Bob is going to stop deleting my posts, so I'll try this again. The law to allow hybrids was NOT based on fuel economy, but emissions, which is why diesel doesn't fit. If you read the literature, hybrids similar to the Prius pollute only 20% (a factor of 5x) of similarly sized vehicles, are 15x less polluting than conventional SUVs, and 45x less polluting than Hummers.

At best, you need to be HOV-5 to keep up.



I don't follow your math, but one of the laws written years ago about the HOV lanes, was allowing cars that did not use gasoline as a fuel. Natural gas, propane, full electric (and ultimately hydrogen?) fall in that category. The way I interperted it was, the lawmakers allowed the hybrids into the HOV lanes probably to help promote alternatively powered cars (and us Americans hate diesel). Then of course lobbyists come into play, and now the lanes are flooded with SOV hybrids.

Like I said in my previous post, I think hybrids are a first step and a great idea, but the HOV lanes have definitely become slower over the last few years. I notice a lot of SOV hybrids around me just about everytime I'm in the HOV lanes. Why can't they pickup riders too? (in their defense, I've noticed about three per week, HOV-3 hybrids - WAY TO GO PEOPLE!



Agreed! And as I have said many, many times, I have nothing against hybrids nor hybrid drivers. Not the answer, but a good first step. I am protesting single occupant commuting, in ANY car!

SOV hybrids are a contradiction, and SOV hybrid drivers who think they are helping anything are lying to themselves and to everyone else. SOV hybrid drivers who criticize carpoolers are hypocrits! The argument dosen't work until they fill up all those empty hybrid seats.


Posted By: TWO
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 2:15pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]TWO:
Some probable misconceptions. Hybrids were allowed because of partial battery usage for prime mover. Conventional vehicles, including diesel, don't do that. The goal was NOT for gas reduction, although that was a bi-product, but emissions reduction. This was for all non-motorcycle exemptions to the carpool requirement to use the express lanes during peak commuting hours. (HOV is a misnomer, and the use of that term has given rise to HOT - a toll for 7/24. Currently, HOV is only for a minority period of the day. Because people use HOV lanes, it made it simple for the legislature to replace HOV with HOT.)

The claim that the lanes are "flooded" with hybrids is also a misconception based mostly on your frame of reference. You don't like hybrids in the express lanes, so you see hybrids when you can't go 80 mph. Let's pretend that hybrids were 20% of the traffic. Wouldn't it stand to reason that 20% of the accidents in the express lanes were also hybrid vehicles? Yet that's clearly not the case. Think of all of the express lane accidents and estimate the ratio of conventional vehicles to hybrids.



NoSUV, I understand that when I'm travelling in the HOV lanes, the vehicles around me are only a 'snapshot' of the ratio of hybrids vs. HOV vs. law enforcement vs. motorcycles. Most of the time I'm in view of equal amounts of SOV hybrids and HOV cars.

I'm not sure of the original intent of the 'express' lanes that started on I-395. I heard that they were once for 'fuel conservation', then emissions reduction, and traffic reduction (not sure of the order). My feeling is that the government was trying to find incentives to get alternatively fueled cars on the road, and that was an easy one. I think the focus has changed over time, and now lawmakers see it as a way to get cheap road improvements; by creating the HOT lanes.

Years ago when I was able to find the law, it specifically said non-gasoline fueled vehicles were allowed in addition to HOV cars. At that time it also said law enforcement was allowed to use the lanes only when responding to emergencies. Obviously that one changed.

Whatever the reason was, if you're so concerned about hybrids getting better mile per emissions than any other HOV loaded car (you bring that up frequently), then why don't you pickup some riders and make it that much better? That's the part I don't understand - the hybrid cars can just as easily pickup riders, so why don't they? Because it would slow down your commute? That's what I thought. You're using the hybrid to cut down your commute time by not having to pickup riders. [:(]

Kudos to the hybrid drivers that pickup at least one other rider!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 14 Feb 2008 at 2:27pm
quote:
Originally posted by TWO
[br]
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]TWO:
Some probable misconceptions. Hybrids were allowed because of partial battery usage for prime mover. Conventional vehicles, including diesel, don't do that. The goal was NOT for gas reduction, although that was a bi-product, but emissions reduction. This was for all non-motorcycle exemptions to the carpool requirement to use the express lanes during peak commuting hours. (HOV is a misnomer, and the use of that term has given rise to HOT - a toll for 7/24. Currently, HOV is only for a minority period of the day. Because people use HOV lanes, it made it simple for the legislature to replace HOV with HOT.)

The claim that the lanes are "flooded" with hybrids is also a misconception based mostly on your frame of reference. You don't like hybrids in the express lanes, so you see hybrids when you can't go 80 mph. Let's pretend that hybrids were 20% of the traffic. Wouldn't it stand to reason that 20% of the accidents in the express lanes were also hybrid vehicles? Yet that's clearly not the case. Think of all of the express lane accidents and estimate the ratio of conventional vehicles to hybrids.



NoSUV, I understand that when I'm travelling in the HOV lanes, the cars around me are only a 'snapshot' of the ratio of hybrids vs. HOV vs. law enforcement vs. motorcycles. Most of the time I'm in view of equal amounts of SOV hybrids and HOV cars.

I'm not sure of the original intent of the 'express' lanes that started on I-395. I heard that they were once for 'fuel conservation', then emissions reduction, and traffic reduction (not sure of the order). Years ago when I was able to find the law, it specifically said non-gasoline fueled vehicles were allowed in addition to HOV cars. Whatever the reason was, if you're so concerned about hybrids getting better mile per emissions than any other HOV loaded car, then why don't you pickup some riders and make it that much better? That's the part I don't understand - the hybrid cars can just as easily pickup riders, so why don't they? Because it would slow down your commute? That's what I thought. You're using the hybrid to cut down your commute time by not having to pickup riders. [:(]



The only way we are going to slow global warming is by far more people using hybrids than conventional vehicles, as well as through the use of mass transit. For right now, the best way to ensure that happens is through per person emissions tax during commutes (emissions toll vice HOT). This works because:
- non-taxpayer incentives to go green
- sends people to hybrids or mass transit
Best way to move in that direction is for people to visibly see the advantage of hybrids through SOV use. That could change when the majority of ALL vehicles are hybrids, but until then, we should toll carpools and let hybrids be exempt.
If >50% of commuters were in a hybrid, you bet I'd carpool! We're not even close...


Posted By: amazedbythis
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2008 at 2:32pm
As I'm reading through this, I wonder how many of you HOV people would actually pick up slugs if you were able to use the HOV lanes with just one occupant?? I've read all this ranting and raving about hybrids and how selfish they are, but aren't most HOVers only picking up slugs to use the express lanes???


Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2008 at 4:07pm
Absolutely!
Car pooling/slugging saves us time and money! [;)]
It sure beats driving alone in the slow lanes any day!


Posted By: TWO
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2008 at 4:48pm
quote:
Originally posted by amazedbythis
[br]As I'm reading through this, I wonder how many of you HOV people would actually pick up slugs if you were able to use the HOV lanes with just one occupant?? I've read all this ranting and raving about hybrids and how selfish they are, but aren't most HOVers only picking up slugs to use the express lanes???


I'm sure most of us are able to use the HOV lanes by ourselves (buy a hybrid), but we choose not to go out and buy a hybrid with the intention of doing that! Maybe all the people buying hybrids to get in the HOV lanes tipped off the lawmakers that HOT lanes would be a success! "Sure, people are willing to buy their way into the HOV with hybrids, so lets make it easier to buy their way in!"

I'm amazed by the increased congestion, which can partly be attributed to hybrids.


Posted By: jadams08
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2008 at 12:34pm
quote:
Originally posted by amazedbythis
[br]As I'm reading through this, I wonder how many of you HOV people would actually pick up slugs if you were able to use the HOV lanes with just one occupant?? I've read all this ranting and raving about hybrids and how selfish they are, but aren't most HOVers only picking up slugs to use the express lanes???



I would! I have on more than one occasion have picked up slugs after the HOV restrictions have been lifted, i.e. 7pm 8pm. Yes there were slugs out at this time. I believe all this ranting and raving, is unbilicious, yes that’s right unbilicious, unbelievable and ridiculous. If you are a slugger, you understand, and wouldn’t mind doing another slugger a solid.

The way I see it, if it was me out there, I would want someone to pick me up!


Posted By: guishermo
Date Posted: 20 Feb 2008 at 6:20pm
If your annual gas cost were $2000 and you were to pay a $5000 premium
for a hybrid, it would take you 2.5 years to start saving
money (the real numbers are actually worse),
then, hybrid owners are effectively paying their way into
the HOV lanes, not really taking cars off the road thereby
not helping congestion.

Under such assumption, it is possible
to pay for HOV-3, and therefore to pay to keep cars on the road.

So, paying money to keep cars on the road, not save commuting time
for anyone, and not really save gas, the environment, or your
lonely commute for that matter.

How kind is that?

Is this capitalism letting money
pay for the right of way?

Is this way of paying to feel better
about your car, life, society and the environment without effectively
and realistically helping any of those?

Oh my...


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 21 Feb 2008 at 10:23am
Fuzzy math.

Look at it logically and plug in some assumptions to make the math easier - you can use actual numbers from reputable websites.

Assume both the conventional and the hybrid travel 15,000 miles per year. Assume the conventional gets a combined 25 mpg; the hybrid 50 mpg. Assume $3/gal.

The conventional needs 600 gal (15000/25); the hybrid 300 gal (15000/50). The difference is that the conventional needs 300 gal more than the hybrid, which is < $1000/year.


Posted By: scottt
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2008 at 9:16am
BEEP! Wrong answer. You need to take a look at "like" cars. Not just a "oh let's pick 25mpg"

So, let's use a REAL scenario.

2008 Toyota Prius with VSC $23,710 MSRP, 46 combined mpg. 2008 Toyota Corolla with VSC, $17,360 MSRP, 31 combined mpg.

Gas @ $3.00 a gallon.

Let's assume on the high side for yearly mileage (which helps you). Person drives 15,000 miles a year. $1451.61 in gas for the Corolla, $978.26 for the Prius.

Price difference between the two cars, $6350.00. Difference in yearly gas charges, $473.35. Time to "break even" 13.42 years.

But hey, even if we use your 25mpg number, the "break even" point is still 7.73 years.

Damn! Sign me up for a hybrid!


Posted By: CatHerder
Date Posted: 22 Feb 2008 at 9:37am
And how does this argument matter? The HOV is becoming HOT so who cares if hybrids stay or go? In the end, either the hybrids will be picking up 3 or paying tolls. In the end, the only thing carpools will be good for is to avoid paying tolls. There will be no time savings, just money savings (as long as carpools remain free that is).

NoSUVs' love affair with his hybrid is his own affair -- and totally unrealistic in the matter of actual gas usage and overall benefit to the environment -- given the extra batteries and such. Also, the cost of tuning up a hybrid is a lot more. They use synthetic gas. Also, their tires are low tread so if you value your life you need to purchase new tires, thus reducing your gas mileage further and costing you significant change. Things that people don't realize when they purchase a hybrid. Rail is the only way to survive the population growth -- Europe, Japan uses rail, why can't the US?


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2008 at 8:31am
quote:
Originally posted by scottt
[br]BEEP! Wrong answer. You need to take a look at "like" cars. Not just a "oh let's pick 25mpg"

So, let's use a REAL scenario.

2008 Toyota Prius with VSC $23,710 MSRP, 46 combined mpg. 2008 Toyota Corolla with VSC, $17,360 MSRP, 31 combined mpg.

Gas @ $3.00 a gallon.

Let's assume on the high side for yearly mileage (which helps you). Person drives 15,000 miles a year. $1451.61 in gas for the Corolla, $978.26 for the Prius.

Price difference between the two cars, $6350.00. Difference in yearly gas charges, $473.35. Time to "break even" 13.42 years.

But hey, even if we use your 25mpg number, the "break even" point is still 7.73 years.

Damn! Sign me up for a hybrid!


scottt,
Exactly. You, more than anyone else, have proved my point. We MUST have a non-taxpayer incentive to encourage consumers to purchase the technology to make the environment better. After all, 1/3 of greenhouse emisssions comes from transportation, and hybrids produce less than 20% of those "like" cars.

London is already considering changing from a straight toll charge to enter their city to an emissions based toll. It makes FAR more sense to charge carpools to use express lanes than vehicles which are far better for the environment - which means the air YOU breathe, too.

Seems simple - link FastTrac to VIN. At semi-annual emissions tests, automatically link emissions to VIN. Toll based on emissions. The WHOLE WORLD wins. Even if scottt now has to buy a hybrid.


Posted By: Pushback
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2008 at 11:11am
Hey NoSuv every time I check this site you are running your mouth about your little man car. Why don't you ID yourself to so we know what a jerk looks like.[}:)]


Posted By: Luddite
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2008 at 8:45am
Catherder,
Exempting HOV3 from HOT is only temporary. This is a myth perpetuated by Fluor to keep folks from going apoplectic. Anyone who bothered to read the proposals would be able to make this inference. Two years ago, your part-time, on-the-take, state legislators refused to expmpt HOV3 from HOT. HOV is finished-killed by hybrid lobbyists and public/private partnerships.


Posted By: Sami
Date Posted: 01 May 2008 at 10:24am
I cant stand those hybrid drivers. They are selfish and drive at the speed of turtle. I think they should ban hybrid drivers from the lanes. They are selfish and slow.

Sami
Commuter of the People


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 21 May 2008 at 3:46pm
quote:
Originally posted by Sami

I cant stand those hybrid drivers. They are selfish and drive at the speed of turtle. I think they should ban hybrid drivers from the lanes. They are selfish and slow.

Sami
Commuter of the People



Welcome to the debate "Sami Commuter of the People." This is a wonderfully intellectual contribution, and quite timely too. Recommend next time that you read some of the back discussions for insights to the topic; it will help to prepare you for the forum. Fight the good fight, SCOTP! And remember, "Never trust anyone over thirty!"


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 21 May 2008 at 3:49pm
quote:
Originally posted by Luddite

Catherder,
Exempting HOV3 from HOT is only temporary. This is a myth perpetuated by Fluor to keep folks from going apoplectic. Anyone who bothered to read the proposals would be able to make this inference. Two years ago, your part-time, on-the-take, state legislators refused to expmpt HOV3 from HOT. HOV is finished-killed by hybrid lobbyists and public/private partnerships.




Now Luddite, that's an impressive string of synical statements, albiet true! So what are we going to do about it?!


Posted By: Luddite
Date Posted: 27 May 2008 at 4:51pm
Nothing anyone can do now except find a way to make some money on the deal. Invest in Fluor or one of the other publicly traded construction companies taking their piece of the $650 million pie. When I was young and idealistic I thought at least some of my elected officials did the bidding of the people. The reality is that taking the oath makes one's moral compass disappear.


Posted By: winglover1
Date Posted: 27 May 2008 at 8:44pm
If I owned a Hybrid, I would still pick up Slugs. It just makes sense. But if I can't find a rider to go home with, then I an still get the benefit of the HOV. Sweet! Only problem is I don't want another $350 a month car payment... Damn!

AKA Mr. Bill
Oh Nooo!!!


Posted By: winglover1
Date Posted: 27 May 2008 at 9:02pm
Personally I love my SUV, and when I pull my boat or Camper with it, it gets gas mileage that I don't complain about because I chose that lifestyle. True, I don't drive it much with the high price of gas, but when I need the towing, hauling, or people transport features, it does performs very well. This last weekend I had three steamer trunks, 6 plastic tubs of merchandise, and six dell printers and three humans in it. IN IT, not strapped to the roof, or bumper, in it. No freaking way a Prius would haul that load. You would have to make 6 or more trips to Harpers Ferry to get the merchadise there. 50 miles per gallon devided by 6 trips is much less than the 18 Mpg the tank gets on the open highway. It all boils down to what you purchased the vehicle for.... Simple commuting, one or two people? Hybrids make sense. Add the three kids, two dogs, luggage, cooler et, and the vehicle has to be bigger.

When there is three feet of snow, they don't go on the radio and ask Prius owners to take Nurses and Doctors to the Hospitals, they ask us SUV owners to step up. Now if the Doctor just wants a ride so he can leave his BMW or Mercedes SUV in his Garage, I drive away smiling.

Hybrids have their place in the scheme of things, just as SUV's do.

When my Suburban is paid off, I will be buying a hybrid of some sort, just to balance it out. Now if only Toyota made a Hybrid Solara convertible! Yes, I would be first in line! It wouldn't have much of a trunk, but who cares!

When I do get my Hybrid, I will continue to pick up Slugs. It just makes sense! Besides, I enjoy the company!
[:o)]




AKA Mr. Bill
Oh Nooo!!!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 29 May 2008 at 12:44am
wing,
What makes NO sense is for you to drive your Suburban for commuting. Even with slugs.


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 30 May 2008 at 8:57am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV

wing,
What makes NO sense is for you to drive your Suburban for commuting. Even with slugs.



What makes NO sense is that you, a 'non-slug', SOV driver are still hanging around this website harassing us slugs.

Some good advice: Those who say it can't/shouldn't be done, should not criticize those of us who are doing it!

Some more good advice: fill up those seats in your car! As long as you ride SOV, you have no right to criticize those of us ride HOV.


Posted By: winglover1
Date Posted: 31 May 2008 at 1:44am
I never said that I use my SUV for commuting. Re-read my post... I have a Toyota Camry that I drive when I have to drive the car in. If for some reason the Camry is in the shop (rare) then I might have to drive the Suburban. But just so you know... It only gets about 4 miles per gallon less than the V6 Camry on the highway and can hold 8 people instead of the five the Camry can carry (tightly). So.... Technically, it should make much MORE sense to take the truck as I could fill it up and make 7 peoples commute... It's all in how you look at it. You must be one of those poor brainwashed people that think that all SUV owners are evil... Sorry pal, not evil, just my choice. Just as you have the rights to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, as do I. What one chooses that brings you happiness is what makes this country great. I have a Camry for the small jobs, and the SUV for the big ones.

Anyway... I rode the motorcycle today and it gets 40 MPG! Twice the Camry, but none of the slugs wanted to get on the back! There is just no pleasing some people. [:0]

quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV

wing,
What makes NO sense is for you to drive your Suburban for commuting. Even with slugs.



AKA Mr. Bill
Oh Nooo!!!


Posted By: winglover1
Date Posted: 31 May 2008 at 1:51am
He doesn't pick up sluggers?
What the freak? Oh, I get it, he just like to Pontificate his views on the masses? Hmmm.... Very suspect.

quote:
Originally posted by raymond

quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV

wing,
What makes NO sense is for you to drive your Suburban for commuting. Even with slugs.



What makes NO sense is that you, a 'non-slug', SOV driver are still hanging around this website harassing us slugs.

Some good advice: Those who say it can't/shouldn't be done, should not criticize those of us who are doing it!

Some more good advice: fill up those seats in your car! As long as you ride SOV, you have no right to criticize those of us ride HOV.



AKA Mr. Bill
Oh Nooo!!!


Posted By: Flyby
Date Posted: 31 May 2008 at 4:46pm
Excuse me for not reading through all the previous postings but has anyone else gotten the impression that newer hybrids (those purchased after 7/1/06) that weren't supposed to be eligible for the exempted 'clean fuel' tags with the emblem on the left are showing up WITH those tags? I've seen models of hybrids that I know are less than two years old and they have the old clean fuel tags enabling them to use the HOV lanes without 3 occupants. Are the dealers getting away with letting new purchasers use their old hybrid tags on their new vehicles? How closely does DMV monitor this? Has anyone else noticed this trend?

Flyby

Flyby


Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2008 at 8:21pm
Yes. Once you get one of the old plates, you can transfer it to a new hybrid -- as long as the new hybrid is on the VDOT approved list of hybrids. [;)] Plate transfer rules apply.


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2008 at 11:11pm
quote:
Originally posted by raymond

quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV

wing,
What makes NO sense is for you to drive your Suburban for commuting. Even with slugs.



What makes NO sense is that you, a 'non-slug', SOV driver are still hanging around this website harassing us slugs.

Some good advice: Those who say it can't/shouldn't be done, should not criticize those of us who are doing it!

Some more good advice: fill up those seats in your car! As long as you ride SOV, you have no right to criticize those of us ride HOV.


raymond - you need to be HOV-5 in a conventional compact to have a say in the environmental problems you are causing 100% of the time you are in an automobile. ARE YOU? Or just writing to AGAIN show your ignorance. Those SUVs need to be HOV-15...winglover it's NOT the mpg, but the emissions.


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2008 at 3:59pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV

quote:
Originally posted by raymond

quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV

wing,
What makes NO sense is for you to drive your Suburban for commuting. Even with slugs.



What makes NO sense is that you, a 'non-slug', SOV driver are still hanging around this website harassing us slugs.

Some good advice: Those who say it can't/shouldn't be done, should not criticize those of us who are doing it!

Some more good advice: fill up those seats in your car! As long as you ride SOV, you have no right to criticize those of us ride HOV.


raymond - you need to be HOV-5 in a conventional compact to have a say in the environmental problems you are causing 100% of the time you are in an automobile. ARE YOU? Or just writing to AGAIN show your ignorance. Those SUVs need to be HOV-15...winglover it's NOT the mpg, but the emissions.



BTW it's the mpg AND the emissions, and the traffic congestion! They are all our problems now! Fill up those hybrid seats!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 08 Jun 2008 at 9:10pm
What congestion?

If only VA had stayed the course with the hybrid exemption
- gas prices would be lower
- emissions would be lower
- people would be more inclined to pay for transportation benefits - like their ride to work

raymond -- get with the program and GET A HYBRID! EVERYone will thank you. 100% of your time in an auto would be better for both mpg and emissions, not just the commute, AND you, yes raymond, you, could pick up slugs and do MORE than your share.

What's keeping you back? Don't want to be a hero?


Posted By: TWO
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2008 at 2:58pm
NoSUV,
Are you a federal employee? You seem to think it's ok to spend the extra bucks to buy a new tool (car), when the existing one most people have can do the job, with less outlay. If it's all about the environment, then your gas burning hybrid is still polluting.


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 02 Jul 2008 at 4:00pm
TWO,

How many vehicles are on the road that are 2001 models or newer? If every one of those vehicles were hybrids:
- air pollution would be reduced by 33% more than if a conventional vehicle had been purchased
- fuel consumption, although not zero, would have been reduced by about 50% over conventional

When looking at the environment, instead of looking at absolutes, you might want to look at what is BETTER. This discussion has been on this board since 2004, and for over 4 years posters, like you, have used false assumptions and then tried to justify them. IF ONLY you had purchased a hybrid then, not only would you be better off financially, but you would have helped the environment for those years, and you'd be alleviating the demand side of the gas problem.

IF ONLY...


Posted By: TWO
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2008 at 8:40am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
IF ONLY you had purchased a hybrid then, not only would you be better off financially, but you would have helped the environment for those years, and you'd be alleviating the demand side of the gas problem.
IF ONLY...


You don't know what kind of vehicle I own, or commute in. Are you assuming that it's a gas guzzling CAR? I don't think so. [;)]


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2008 at 11:04am
Are you required to get your car tested for emissions every other year? Can you state for a fact that your vehicle is less polluting than a hybrid AS WELL AS getting identical or better mileage than a hybrid?


Posted By: mdog
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2008 at 1:30pm
Overall your hybrid does a comparable, if not a bigger damage on the environment than a comparable car. Yes, it may be marginally more efficient than say Chevy Aveo of Ford Focus (esp. on paper [:D]), but where do you think all the lead and acid and other stuff for the batteries is coming from and goes to?


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2008 at 3:37pm
mdog,

Asked and answered previously. Your assertations are completely baseless. There have been several postings about the 100% recycling programs from more than one web source.

How do you define marginally? The emissions are 5x less.


Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2008 at 3:51pm
NoSUV, Are you saying that a Prius' emissions at highway speeds are five times less than a new Chevy Aveo or new Ford Focus also at highway speeds? That's amazing. Please show us the comparison facts between those three vehicles and your source for that info.

The info I remember (from some news article that mentioned "5 times") compared a Prius to a big SUV (like a Tahoe or Expedition).


Posted By: mdog
Date Posted: 03 Jul 2008 at 10:02pm
sluDgE, according to NoSUV, hybrids produce completely different type of emissions. Those that are known to heal cancer and bring peace on Earth. Continiously. [:p]

From http://www.hybridcars.com/gas-mileage-factors/aggressive-driving-and-gas-mileage.html - http://www.hybridcars.com/gas-mileage-factors/aggressive-driving-and-gas-mileage.html :

quote:
The most dramatic comparison in the multi-vehicle DOE study was analyzing the differences between the Toyota Prius—the quintessential hybrid—and the Jaguar XJ8, a high-performance vehicle. To establish a baseline for efficiency, the DOE researchers searched for the speed at which each vehicle was the most efficient. They used a treadmill-like device called dynamometer to run the vehicles at a constant speed for 30 continuous minutes. The most efficient speed for the Toyota Prius was 20 mph, and its least efficient level was 70 mph.


It's obvious hybrids shine - and belong!- in cities and stop-n-go traffic. They have no place on HOV.



Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2008 at 1:45pm
quote:
Originally posted by sluDgE

NoSUV, Are you saying that a Prius' emissions at highway speeds are five times less than a new Chevy Aveo or new Ford Focus also at highway speeds? That's amazing. Please show us the comparison facts between those three vehicles and your source for that info.

The info I remember (from some news article that mentioned "5 times") compared a Prius to a big SUV (like a Tahoe or Expedition).



The newspaper article compared a Prius first to like compact vehicles and came up with the 5x. It then compared to a big SUV and showed that the emissions was 15x. Finally, it compared to a hummer - 45x.


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2008 at 1:50pm
quote:
Originally posted by mdog

sluDgE, according to NoSUV, hybrids produce completely different type of emissions. Those that are known to heal cancer and bring peace on Earth. Continiously. [:p]

From http://www.hybridcars.com/gas-mileage-factors/aggressive-driving-and-gas-mileage.html - http://www.hybridcars.com/gas-mileage-factors/aggressive-driving-and-gas-mileage.html :

quote:
The most dramatic comparison in the multi-vehicle DOE study was analyzing the differences between the Toyota Prius—the quintessential hybrid—and the Jaguar XJ8, a high-performance vehicle. To establish a baseline for efficiency, the DOE researchers searched for the speed at which each vehicle was the most efficient. They used a treadmill-like device called dynamometer to run the vehicles at a constant speed for 30 continuous minutes. The most efficient speed for the Toyota Prius was 20 mph, and its least efficient level was 70 mph.


It's obvious hybrids shine - and belong!- in cities and stop-n-go traffic. They have no place on HOV.




And the "most efficient speed" for your vehicle is what - 35 mph? Is that the speed at which you travel?

How efficient is YOUR vehicle at 70?

Instead of distorting facts, how about some more useful information.

Figures don't lie, but liars figure.


Posted By: mdog
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2008 at 11:33pm
NoSUV, no it's you who's refusing to face the facts: hybrids are not 5x more efficient than comparable cars. Even more, hybrids efficiency is a function of diminishing returns, and the bigger/heavier the hybrid, the less it's advantage with a comparable non-hybrid car. Good example - Lexus LS. Stop comparing your Prius to a Hammer. Compare it with Focus, Chevy Cobalt, Nissan Versa. Compare their mileage @ 60-70 MPG. The real one, not 'EPA estimate'. A Cobalt with 3 occupants does at least twice smaller damage to the environment than 3 hybrids. Plain and simple.


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2008 at 4:35pm
quote:
Originally posted by mdog

NoSUV, no it's you who's refusing to face the facts: hybrids are not 5x more efficient than comparable cars. Even more, hybrids efficiency is a function of diminishing returns, and the bigger/heavier the hybrid, the less it's advantage with a comparable non-hybrid car. Good example - Lexus LS. Stop comparing your Prius to a Hammer. Compare it with Focus, Chevy Cobalt, Nissan Versa. Compare their mileage @ 60-70 MPG. The real one, not 'EPA estimate'. A Cobalt with 3 occupants does at least twice smaller damage to the environment than 3 hybrids. Plain and simple.



mdog - as usual, you are wrong. I used The Washington Post for my source. What did you use?

It's not about the MPG, but the emissions. A Cobalt is far, far worse than 3 hybrids with it's emissions - it needs to be HOV-5 to keep up with one!

It's just a nice benefit that the hybrid ALSO gets great mileage.

Please, mdog, find some reputable source for your spoutings.


Posted By: mdog
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2008 at 4:48pm
Stop embarassing yourself. Just stop. Go to the DOE site and check the auto data:

Carbon Footprint
Prius - 4.1 tonns
Focus - 5.6 tonns
Cobalt - 5.9 tonns

And just to prove the diminishing returns:
Lexus LS 460 - 7.7 tonns
Lexus LS 600h - 8.3 (!) tonns - more than non-hybrid version

And so you understand the validity of the WP writers:
Hammer H3 - 11.4 (which is less than 3 times more than Prius)

If you want me to embarass you more, keep quoting WP and other "papers". We'll all laugh.


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2008 at 7:37am
mdog,

Please enlighten all of us with which of those vehicles qualified for Clean Special Fuel plates by VDOT.

Now, let's review the REAL statistics:

NOx (that's nitrogen oxide) in grams/mile:
Light duty hybrid: .02
Passenger car: .10
Light duty truck 2: .30 (like Jeep Cherokee, Dodge Caravan)
Light duty truck 4: .60 (like Ford F-150, Land Rover)
Heavy duty truck: .90 (like Hummer)

Now, perhaps you can do the simple math and try to divide .9 by .02 and let us know if you come up with a different number than 45.

Keep trying mdog - you just embarrass yourself.


Posted By: mdog
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2008 at 11:46am
And the source of these numbers is - let me guess - washington post? good job! Take that, Government agencies!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2008 at 4:47pm
And where do you suppose they got it from?

Or are you one of those wing nuts who believes that all of the statistics in the Post are made up?


Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2008 at 3:54pm
Here's an article on air pollution and includes a discussion on N2O NO and NO2. Since we are discussing NOx and not nitrous oxide, please try to focus on that part of the article.

"Nitrogen dioxide is generally not considered a pollutant because it is not toxic and usually not produced by humans." That's NO2

"no evidence of NO damage has ever been seen outside the laboratory."

http://www.umich.edu/~gs265/society/pollution.htm

And, FYI, my 1991 Acura Integra had it's emissions tested several times and the result was .01 for NOx.

Why you bring up NOx when someone else discusses CO2 levels from Hybrids and non-hybrids is beyond me.


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 10 Jul 2008 at 9:36am
The article I have from WP 6/24/07 page C2 says that "[Nitrogen Oxide] combne[s] with hydrocarbons to form ground-level ozone."

The article also reports on Code Orange, Red and Purple days, and states "The main concerns in the Washington area are levels of fine particles and ozone. In summer ozone is the main concern." And later "Care emissions account for a little more than a third of ozone."

It discusses the 3 factors that determine how much vehicles pollute:
- type/weight
- age
- speed

Finally,
"In Virginia, solo hybrid drivers are allwoed to use HOV lanes, a perk that annoys many carpoolers who think hybrids clog the lanes and defeat one of the primary purposes of carpooling: getting more people in fewer cars to cut down on pollution. Three people in one car is better than three people in three hybrids, they reason. They may be right as far as congestion goes, but not on air quality."


Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2008 at 3:24pm
Yes, and 3 people in ONE hybrid is better still! Fill up those empty seats NoSUV! Until you do, you will just be another SOV snob, even worse a hybrid-driving, self-righteous SOV snob.

Which brings up a good point: if you don't carpool or slug, why are you cloging up the "slug-lines" forum with your anti-slugging propiganda?


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 14 Jul 2008 at 4:22pm
quote:
Originally posted by raymond

Yes, and 3 people in ONE hybrid is better still! Fill up those empty seats NoSUV! Until you do, you will just be another SOV snob, even worse a hybrid-driving, self-righteous SOV snob.

Which brings up a good point: if you don't carpool or slug, why are you cloging up the "slug-lines" forum with your anti-slugging propiganda?


raymond, even better - why don't YOU buy a hybrid and drive? Until then, you will just be another slug snob, even worse, a non-environmental, gas guzzling, self-righteous, freeloading slug snob.



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