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Roster call

Printed From: Slug-Lines.com
Category: Archived Slugging Topics
Forum Name: Hybrids
Forum Description: This area is devoted to the discussion of hybrid vehicles and their impact to the HOV.
URL: http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2723
Printed Date: 22 Jul 2018 at 11:57pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Roster call
Posted By: bigmike
Subject: Roster call
Date Posted: 10 May 2006 at 2:20pm
SO, who here has a hybrid, what is your gas mileage like, and do you resent your decision to go with electric over a conventional gas?

-Mike



Replies:
Posted By: cedarcitynative
Date Posted: 11 May 2006 at 12:57pm
I bought a Prius in Oct of 2005. I consistently get 47-49 mpg. Please keep in mind the car is rated at 51 mpg on the highway in ideal conditions. I travel above 75 mph for about 80 percent of my trip. I drive in from Dumfries. I have never given second thought to going back to a convential gasoline vehicle. I do not regret my decision to buy the Prius.


Posted By: bigmike
Date Posted: 11 May 2006 at 1:59pm
no problems with it at all huh? I was worried how long the engine would last having to start/stop/start/stop/start at every stop. It is common knowledge that the #1 engine killer is start-up.


Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 11 May 2006 at 2:14pm
Hybrid owners posting at this site didn't consider gas mileage much of a factor in their purchase decision. If they say so, they are either lying, or stupid. Gas mileage doesn't factor into the equation unless gasoline is something like $7 per gallon.


Posted By: bigmike
Date Posted: 11 May 2006 at 2:30pm
huh? my cavy gets 25mph (4 cylinder manual) and if a hybrid can pull 45-50mph (4 cylinder auto) how is that not more fuel efficient?


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 11 May 2006 at 6:59pm
OK, here's some figures based on assumptions:
Assumptions:
- hybrid gets 45 mpg
- comparable conventional vehicle gets 25 mpg
- annual mileage is 20,000

Facts:
- hybrid will take around 444 gal/year
- conventional vehicle takes 800 gal/year
- fuel difference is around 356 gal/year
- annual hybrid $ savings at $2/gal = $712
- annual hybrid $ savings at $3/gal = $1,068

You can play with the assumptions all you want. You can also look up the difference in price between a hybrid and a comparable conventional vehicle, and then subtract the estimated tax credit. If the price difference is $10K and you get a $2K rebate, then with gas at $3/gal it takes 8 years (160K miles) to break even. Not counting maintenance for either, including possible hybrid battery change out over that time.

Opinion: MDC is an idiot studying to be a moron. Mileage is one of MANY factors that could play into honorable and intelligent consumers. The environmental impact, of course, is also big from the far lower emissions (I never have to have an emissions test - unlike those who drive gas guzzlers), but mileage remains an added factor.

The assumptions above are also skewed in that some slugs never share driving duties, unlike formal car pools. I wonder how the slug-driver equilibrium will change when gas is $4 later this year?



Posted By: Wagonman
Date Posted: 11 May 2006 at 7:30pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]
Opinion: MDC is an idiot studying to be a moron. Mileage is one of MANY factors that could play into honorable and intelligent consumers. The environmental impact, of course, is also big from the far lower emissions (I never have to have an emissions test - unlike those who drive gas guzzlers), but mileage remains an added factor.

The assumptions above are also skewed in that some slugs never share driving duties, unlike formal car pools. I wonder how the slug-driver equilibrium will change when gas is $4 later this year?




Here are some much better assumptions that aren't biased to help the hybrids look better.
Assumptions:
- Civic hybrid gets 45 mpg
- comparable Civic(automatic) conventional vehicle gets 35 mpg (not 25MPG)
- annual mileage is 15,000 (20,000 is not average, according to EPA the real average is 11,700 per car, I95/395 HOV commuters probably average more so 15,000 is a good number)

Facts:
- hybrid will take around 333 gal/year
- conventional vehicle takes 428 gal/year
- fuel difference is around 95 gal/year
- annual hybrid $ savings at $2/gal = $190
- annual hybrid $ savings at $3/gal = $285

Even if you say the Conventional Civic gets 30 MPG you only save $500 in gas at $3/gal. Good luck in trying to make the purchase look financially sound. Considering a lot of the mileage for commuters would be highway miles and a regular civic or corolla gets 40MPG on the highway the comparison isn't looking all that great.

Calling MDC an idiot just shows your lack of understanding. Anyone that thinks they are going to get a payback on the extra they pay to get a hybrid through the better gas mileage is exactly what MDC said "lying, or stupid". Either they never took the time to do the math or they are too dumb to do the math correctly.

Granted, hybrids don't need to get emissions testing done but that isn't because they are all so "clean". It is because the state never came up with a testing program since there were so few of the hybrid cars on the road. The testing program for a conventional vehicle won't work correctly on a hybrid. I guess since large dump trucks don't get emissions testing they are really clean too!

NoSUV, as I told you before a new 2006 V8 Ford explorer is cleaner than your ?2002? Prius- first generation.


Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 12 May 2006 at 7:28am
NoSUV,

I expected better of you. Your comments concerning MDC are way out of line and NOT the person I've come to know as NoSUV.

Take a look at the other thread I'm starting concerning ethanol. Quite telling.

NoSb

SOV because you can, HOV because you care!


Posted By: bigmike
Date Posted: 12 May 2006 at 8:57am
oddly, I have been checking my gas mileage since I started driving everyday. As you all know, it is a manual 4 cylinder 2800lb. car with me in it. Add my regular slugs and your looking at about 3100 being moved by 140hp. I have NOT run the a/c on my morning commute, and at 70-80mph my tach is around 2500. The best gas mileage I can pull has been this morning at 27. In my eyes, that SUCKS! My 95 corvette did that and it weighed the same with just me as the cavy does fully loaded!!!! and has DOUBLE the power!

I dunno, after reading the debate occuring on the hybrids.........I dunno. I want to save as much fuel as possible but still be able to enjoy the car. Any ideas?


Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 12 May 2006 at 2:18pm
2000 Toyota Avalon, 6 cylinder, carrying 4 of us (sorry, not as comprehensive in my numbers as BM), averaging 29 mpg.

Go figure. Wouldn't trade the comfort and SAFETY of the Avalon for a gas/elec vehicle, especially not on I95/395.

NoSb

SOV because you can, HOV because you care!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 13 May 2006 at 10:40pm
Wagonman: Comparing an '02 Prius to an '06 Explorer is about as relevant as comparing the fuel economy and emissions of a '55 Chevy to an '02 Prius. Also, please be consistent on the mpg figures you use - using actual for one and EPA for the other is not quite right.

NoSB: a moment of weakness on a bad day. My apologies.


Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 15 May 2006 at 6:56am
NoSUV,
Understood. We all have them, it's just what we decide to do with what we're given. On to better days and better choices!

Let's SLUG!

NoSb

SOV because you can, HOV because you care!


Posted By: Wagonman
Date Posted: 15 May 2006 at 7:47am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]Wagonman: Comparing an '02 Prius to an '06 Explorer is about as relevant as comparing the fuel economy and emissions of a '55 Chevy to an '02 Prius. Also, please be consistent on the mpg figures you use - using actual for one and EPA for the other is not quite right.

NoSB: a moment of weakness on a bad day. My apologies.



Comparing the two is very relevant when one still gets "clean" fuel plates and the other doesn't. You're the one that preaches that your saving the world by driving a hybrid and that any hybrid is better than a conventional vehicle. Once you start qualifying your statements about hybrids to follow reality then you can complain about me pointing out just how "clean" your car is and that you get "clean fuel" plates to drive SOV in HOV. How about an '06 Insight being dirtier than that same '06 V8 Explorer? Is that more to your liking?

I did use the approximate "actual" in the follow up in that same post to give the full picture. Most reports I've seen also only give the civic hybrd 40 MPG for the "actual". So they both were 5 MPG over their supposed "actual" mileage. I can compare 40 MPG to 30 MPG for hybrid versus conventional if you want but it really doesn't change much.


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 15 May 2006 at 10:21am
Wagonman,

Also, you goofed on the 15K miles - unless you are a non-driving for the commute slug. If you are coming from Stafford, it's about 40 miles 1 way. Round trip x 5 days/week x 50 weeks brings you to 20K miles, and that's ONLY for the commute! Get more real.


Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 15 May 2006 at 3:15pm
Does anyone know the avg cost of the Ford Hybrid truck?

:'}


Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 15 May 2006 at 10:34pm
[?] What model truck? [?]
Only Ford hybrid I've seen advertised is the small SUV, named the Escape.


Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 16 May 2006 at 10:19am
I'd lean twds that one if I was to buy a hybrid..we've been mulling the possibility of a hybrid purchase after our current car note is paid in full. I like Nissan's personally.

:'}


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 17 May 2006 at 7:09am
Wagonman, perhaps we need to get the assumptions eliminated and move toward facts. Let's compare something from the manufacturer's website and do a real side by side. Why not go with Honda Accord since they make both a hybrid and conventional version?

'06 Accord Hybrid (AH) lists at $30,990 with EPA of 25/34.
'06 Accord EX (EX) lists at $27,300 with EPA of 20/29.

Difference in cost is $3690; put in the $2400 tax credit and the difference is $1290. EPA difference is 5mpg.

Using 20K miles per year (justified previously in this thread), and an average of 30 mph AH; 25 mph EX, you'll spend a difference of $400/year at $3/gal.

Payback is 3-4 years.


Posted By: dilbertian
Date Posted: 17 May 2006 at 10:10am
NoSUV, I also thought I read somewhere that the Accord Hybrid has a horsepower increase over the EX which may be reflected in better 0-60 and 1/4 mile performance as well. If you are heavy on the pedal, that should be another factor to consider.

Also, regarding the tax credit, I don't believe there is a guaranteed, fixed tax credit. Honda has a fixed pool of money and after that pool is gone, there is a declining scale I believe. So the early buyers get the full tax credit but late comers may not.



quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]Wagonman, perhaps we need to get the assumptions eliminated and move toward facts. Let's compare something from the manufacturer's website and do a real side by side. Why not go with Honda Accord since they make both a hybrid and conventional version?

'06 Accord Hybrid (AH) lists at $30,990 with EPA of 25/34.
'06 Accord EX (EX) lists at $27,300 with EPA of 20/29.

Difference in cost is $3690; put in the $2400 tax credit and the difference is $1290. EPA difference is 5mpg.

Using 20K miles per year (justified previously in this thread), and an average of 30 mph AH; 25 mph EX, you'll spend a difference of $400/year at $3/gal.

Payback is 3-4 years.



Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 17 May 2006 at 2:17pm
[:0] WTOP radio reported today that Prince William County has FOUR TIMES the national average of hybrid vehicles per household. [:0]

Must be lots of fule economy and ecology-minded car owners there -- or could it be the HOV-bennie? [;)]


Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 17 May 2006 at 3:27pm
Uh sludge....most gullible and easily marketed too segment in the nation? Folks who buy into the latest trendy item all in the name of being cool? Most of them live next door to the Joneses?

NoSb

SOV because you can, HOV because you care!


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 18 May 2006 at 9:06am
Looking in the Washington Post, the % hybrids is 1.5% of all vehicles; yet 35% are SUVs. Look in your neighborhood and see which one you can find - hybrid or SUV.


Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 19 May 2006 at 11:24am
Do we count hybrid SUVs twice, or once? Their drivers cause a lot of smug too, you know.


Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 19 May 2006 at 12:19pm
quote:
Originally posted by MDC
[br]Do we count hybrid SUVs twice, or once? Their drivers cause a lot of smug too, you know.


MDC, You can count those in your neighborhood anyway you want. It's doubtful you'll need more than your fingers on one hand.



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