I'm so happy
Printed From: Slug-Lines.com
Category: Archived Slugging Topics
Forum Name: Hybrids
Forum Description: This area is devoted to the discussion of hybrid vehicles and their impact to the HOV.
URL: http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2791
Printed Date: 18 Apr 2024 at 4:11am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: I'm so happy
Posted By: rodmunera
Subject: I'm so happy
Date Posted: 04 Jul 2006 at 1:40pm
I saw this today on the VDot website. I suppose HOV solo hybrid drivers have their days numbered.
http://www.virginiadot.org/comtravel/hov-rulesfaq.asp
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Replies:
Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2006 at 7:55am
So happy that there's no longer a plan to promote less polution by getting more people to purchase hybrids instead of conventional gas guzzling higher poluting vehicles? No wonder there's such a resistence to the "inconvenient truth" of global warming! When all of the cars in the commuter lot are hybrids, THEN the law should have changed.
Did you notice that the express lanes still zip along while the regular lanes don't? The change in the exemption is wrong on SO many levels.
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Posted By: rodmunera
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2006 at 11:49am
Yes, I am happy and my next car still will likely use an alternate form of fuel. The answer to pollution is not to come up with ways for more people to travel solo, but rather take advantage of carpooling. Incentives for alternative fuel transportation can be implemented without encouraging people NOT to carpool (e.g. tax breaks?).
If you want to ride the carpool lanes solo, then buy a motorcycle!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2006 at 12:35pm
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Actually, there is little difference between hybrids and motorcylces except in the number of seats. I've asked my delegate to explain why motorcycles are treated differently. Of course, since you provided the link, you already know that number of seats in a vehicle has no relevance in using express lanes during HOV hours.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2006 at 3:25pm
More evidence that NoSUV doesn't pay attention. First link is from the Federal Highway administration on motorcycles in HOV. Second, according to the NC DOT, the federal government says that motorcycles are allowed in HOV unless the state determines that motorcyclists are at greater risk by being in the HOV lanes instead of the regular lanes. I don't think there are any states that disallow solo motorcycle HOV use. This has been covered here before.
http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freewaymgmt/hov/hovqalst.htm
http://www.ncdot.org/projects/hov/faq/#15
http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/HOV/guide.htm
http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/transportation/urban_options/hov.html
I did find a place that doesn't allow single passenger motorcycles in HOV. But it's in Ontario Canada.
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_1520.aspx
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2006 at 3:49pm
MDC, thanks for reinforcing my point - that there is no difference between hybrids and motorcycles except for the number of seats.
By the way, there is no data to prove or disprove the answer to the FAQ in the FHA link you provided - put that one down to wishful thinking. The answer clearly points out that it is a "rationale" - which is fairly close to "rationalization." Of course, seems that you are usually fact adverse.
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Posted By: rodmunera
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2006 at 4:04pm
Wow, you MUST be a lobbyist for the automobile industry: hybrid volume sale division. The use of your doublespeak to turn simple plain english into something to back up your agenda.
Let's try again shall we? Here it is the quote from the Federal Highway Administration:
"The rationale behind allowing motorcycles to use HOV lanes is that it is safer to keep two-wheeled vehicles moving than to have them travel in start-and-stop traffic conditions."
So the way I see it is that the difference between hybrids and Motorcycles is more than just the number of seats. It's a safety issue - one that I'm grateful for.
You also say "...there is no data to prove or disprove the answer to the FAQ in the FHA link you provided..."
You have obviously never ridden a motorcycle. Heck, I'm willing to venture the guess that you've never ridden a bycicle for that matter but in any event it's irrelevant to the point.
Some people only hear what they want to hear.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2006 at 4:35pm
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rod - faith or facts? Faith tends to be emotional. Facts can be twisted (figures don't lie but liers figure). But I'll be fair - show me the facts that motorcycles are safer in HOV lanes. Should be some data somewhere. Don't rely on MDC to find it for you, though.
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Posted By: rodmunera
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2006 at 4:53pm
Again you stray from the point in your feeble attempt to sound enlightened or to try make others sound like fools.
The policy is to allow motorcycles on HOV for safety reasons (re-read above).
I didn't write FHA policy, but from experience, I can make an educated guess as to how they would come to the conclusion that it is safer to put a vehicle that requires balance to stay upright in conditions that help balance do exactly just that - away from stop-and-go traffic.
For me it's neither faith nor facts but personal experience.
Don't rely on others to give you the facts, get on a motorcycle and find out for yourself.
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Posted By: rodmunera
Date Posted: 05 Jul 2006 at 5:17pm
The basic concepts of equilibrium and inertia are applied in operating 2-wheeled vehicles. Maintaining balance is achieved by making small corrections on your position lateraly, which is impossible to do in a stationary position due to friction. Hence movement is required to maintain balance.
So speeds helps corrections in bottom/top relationship of an object.
Speed and balance are directly proportional to a certain extent (barring other factors such as lower friction indexes and wind resistance), hence more speed, better balance.
So let's apply our logic 101
HOV = more speed
and
More speed = better balance
and
better balance = safer rider
Therefore,
HOV = safer rider.
Here's some information on bicycle physics:
http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~fajans/Teaching/MoreBikeFiles/BikeQuestions.htm
I have *got* to stop suffering fools.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2006 at 7:28am
rod - I'm impressed by your logic. Do you have any facts to back up the rationale that HOV is safer for motorcycles? Any statistics?
After all, many on this board are hybrid bashers, even though logic as well as statistics indicate that hybrids are better for the environment as well as fuel consumption than conventional vehicles - yet still they are in denial. I'm just saying that there don't appear to be any highway statistics to back your logic.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2006 at 8:24am
NoSUV,
I suggest you read the links more carefully. The state has to determine that safety is at risk by allowing motorcycles in HOV in order for them to disallow it. There is no provision requiring that they prove that HOV is safer.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2006 at 8:51am
Congrats, rod, you have been initiated! I'm sure being attacked by NoSUVs rants and raves feels more like hazing, but that's how NoSUV responds to anyone who does not see the world through "NoSUV, rose-colored" glasses. NoSUV obviously has an agenda that NoSUV will not admit to here, but instead perpetuates a self-centered and narrow-minded argument in support of SOV hybrids in the HOV lanes.
NoSUV believes that we should all support the auto manufacturers and overpay for obsolete hybrid technology that will keep us indebited to foriegn oil producing nations, instead of demanding that auto manufacturers develop renewable, sustainable fuel alternatives (the technology already exists!). NoSUV either does not understand that or will not admit that foriegn oil dependency undermines our nation's economic stability, our national security, and, oh by the way, fossil fuels pollute so much we are facing the most radical climate changes since that which caused the extinction of the dinosaurs!
Wait a minute, did I just say that hybrids are contributing to the extinction of the humans?
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2006 at 10:12am
MDC - so, what FACTS did VA use in the motorcycle determination? None?
raymond - Did you have a chance to read the Outlook section in the Post on Sunday 7/2 and how ethanol is more likely to cause extinction of the human race than alternatives? Are you really against more efficient use of the resources we have? Do you really want to promote excessive greenhouse gasses by using conventional vehicles over hybrids? Do you care that little for your childern?
Folks, you can keep waiting for something better, or you can get off the sidelines and DO. I know you probably don't believe that you are personally killing our planet by refusing to make environmentally sound choices. No one really wants to, which is why we may be doomed. If every car in that commuter lot was either a hybrid or an alternate fueled vehicle, I'd be more willing to belive that you really care = but you as a group and individually don't. You intentionally live miles away from your work and then complain that the commute is long; you refuse to take mass transit; and you refuse to purchase environmentally sound vehicles. It's nearly unbelievable.
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Posted By: rodmunera
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2006 at 10:26am
Bottom line,
You cry about greenhouse effects and children but your agenda is, SOV for hybrids is the way to go.
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Posted By: rodmunera
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2006 at 10:37am
There is no need for statistical data when scientific data is available (e.g. physics)
But ok, let's argue:
The only way to gather such data would be to take the traffic accident report of motorcycles riding on the regular lanes without HOV priviledges.
Likely outcome: more accidents for motorcycle riders.
The government is charged with the safety of its citizens while preserving their freedoms, so putting motorcycle riders at risk by removing them from the HOV lanes so that you can gather data to convince you of what the government already knows to be physically true, would be and unnecessary risk.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2006 at 1:58pm
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rod - do you suppose there are statistics for motorcycle helmets for accidents with and without their use? I would guess that there LIKELY is. I also suspect that if it were statistically relevant, there is data on motorcylce accidents in regular vs HOV lanes as a percentage of use. Or is it just that the motorcycle lobby is more powerful than the hybrid lobby?
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Posted By: rodmunera
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2006 at 2:37pm
LOL!! motorcycle lobby!!
You are too much!
Apples and Oranges, you're not asking people to drive without helmets.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2006 at 2:54pm
quote:
Originally posted by rodmunera
[br]LOL!! motorcycle lobby!!
You are too much!
Apples and Oranges, you're not asking people to drive without helmets.
So, are you saying that one is mandatory safety related and the other is optional? I'm confused. Do you mean to say that helmets are just a fashion statement?
Either the use by motorcycles in HOV lanes is a safety matter or it isn't. Please make up your mind. If it is safety related, please provide verifiable facts/statistics.
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Posted By: rodmunera
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2006 at 3:25pm
Ok rephrasing for the challenged:
Apples and oranges, You're not asking people to ride without helmets to collect data. But you are asking people to be banned from HOV lanes to collect data.
With me and motorcycles it's always about safety, but what does wearing helmets have to do with motorcycles riding the HOV?
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2006 at 8:57am
One question and one question only to keep this little jabfest going:
Which results in less pollution during a given daily commute, 3 people riding solo to/from the commuter lot (let's say 5 miles each way--prob less than that for most), then riding in one conventional gas-burning vehicle for the trip to/from their place of work or other transit waypoint OR 3 people riding solo in their gas/elec hybrids for the entire RT to/from their place of abode and work?
I'll assume, maybe wrongly, that 3-in-1 results in less congestion than the 1-in-1 option; so, answer the question ON AVERAGE for the above framed inquiry.
Thanks for your insights, now get your calculators out and start cracking away at that one.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: Luddite
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2006 at 9:19am
Wrong Rod. Sorry. There are no happy days ahead for HOV on 395. SOV hybrids are here to clog HOV forever. Feds gave up and left it to states. VA General Assembly doesn't listen to anything VDOT recommends and will undoubtedly extend solo hybrids again next year.
I believe I know who you are Rod. I think we have slugged together and discussed traffic problems. I welcome your participation here although it is just a place to vent frustrations. The General Assembly doesn't even listen to their own departments, what makes you think this forum has a chance? Respectfully submitted.
Oh. One more thing. I haven't been on this forum since the General Assembly officially screwed us, but after reading a few of the more recent posts, I see that people are still perpetuating the myth that the hybrid boom has something to do with the environment. Folks, its about riding solo(selfishness). Anyone really expecting to see a post-July 1, 2006 hybrid with three riders? Please. HYBRIDS KILLED HOV
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2006 at 10:20am
High-breds haven't killed HOV. It is still alive. And debating with NoSUV is wasteful of resources, like trying to teach a pig to sing.
The High-bred debate is a smokescreen obscuring the far more important issue of HOT. The high-breddies won't have an exemption in 14 months or so, and slugging will be an historical curiousity, because the State of VA has abdicated its responsibility for transportation management on I-95 to a Texas company and an Australian conglomerate.
You people worrying about high-breds need a frickin' reality check. And don't forget, motorcycles will be BANNED, that's right, BANNED from using the toll lanes at ALL times.
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Posted By: Luddite
Date Posted: 07 Jul 2006 at 10:41am
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so what's happening in 14 months?
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Posted By: rodmunera
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2006 at 8:03pm
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Ugh... pocket-book democracy makes me sick. (this is not a jab to anyone in particular)
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