The HOV-3 to HOV-2 Suggestion
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Topic: The HOV-3 to HOV-2 Suggestion
Posted By: sluDgE
Subject: The HOV-3 to HOV-2 Suggestion
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2006 at 10:34am
In the hybrid message board thread a poster made the suggestion to change I-95/395 from HOV-3 to HOV-2 to help alleviate regular lane congestion.
As a toss-up:
Does anyone know why Virginia's I-95/395 HOV law changed from HOV-4 to HOV-3 in the early 90's?
Is there any historical information about the Commonwealth's rationale for that change?
Was it because I-95/395 HOV was underutilized when 4 people were required in a car, or was it some other reason?
Also, why did the other Virginia HOV lanes in the DC area (I-66) and Tidewater area (I-64/264) start as HOV-2 and still remain HOV-2?
Can we handle the truth?
What's your thought on the HOV-2 recommendation?
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Replies:
Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 01 Sep 2006 at 11:05am
Did some research. It went to HOV3 in 1989.
There was only HOV north of springfield at that time. It wasnt until 1991 that the "diamond lanes" opened and in 1995-97 the full isolated lanes went to Dale City area.
I'm pretty sure that in 1989, the section of HOV north of springfield was quite a bit under-utilized, and vanpools made up a lot of it. Slugging was going pretty strond and I guess carpools put some pressure on to get the change to HOV3.
One thing a lot of people don't realize with HOV-4 is that a regular carpool has a hard time with it, and back in the old days, a lot of carpools had 5 members to make things work when someone was out.
from
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Shirley_Highway.html
The establishment of the reversible 2-lane busway/HOV roadway system on Shirley Highway followed this sequence: The concept originated in 1964, was implemented in 1969 as the first exclusive bus facility on a U.S. urban freeway, and was completed from Springfield to downtown D.C. in 1971 albeit via a temporary one-lane roadway through the reconstruction of the northernmost several miles of the highway in Arlington. On December 10, 1973, automobiles with four or more occupants (HOV-4) were permitted access to the previously exclusive bus lanes at a few selected access points. In July 1975, the 10-year-long staged reconstruction and expansion of Shirley Highway was completed, and the full 2-lane express reversible roadway was completed, and the express traffic uses the 4-lane (2 lanes each way) center bridge of the 14th Street Bridge to cross the Potomac River into and out of the District of Columbia.
In January 1989, HOV-3 went into effect on I-395/I-95. In June 1989, construction began on the 19-mile-long extension of the reversible 2-lane HOV roadway from Springfield to Quantico Creek. In December 1991, interim concurrent flow HOV lanes opened on six miles of I-95 shoulders, from US-1 to VA-644, with 18 emergency pulloffs available for motorists. In June 1992, the Franconia/Springfield Parkway opened to traffic, giving HOV/busway vehicles direct access between the I-95 HOV lanes and the Parkway. In September 1992, motorcycles were given legal access to all HOV facilities in Virginia. In November 1994, the reversible HOV roadway was extended from Springfield to one mile south of Newington. In June 1995, the reversible HOV roadway was extended to Occoquan. In January 1996, the reversible HOV roadway was extended to Optiz Blvd. In June 1997, the reversible HOV roadway was extended to south of VA-234. Thirty miles of 2-lane reversible HOV roadway now exists on I-95 and I-395 between south of VA-234 in Prince William County, and 14th Street and the Southwest Freeway in Washington, D.C.
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2006 at 7:53am
Thanks, Bob.
Good info for all of us to know.
I-95/395 HOV use has evolved over the years while other HOV use in Va has been HOV-2 from the get-go.
It was interesting to see that ALL hybrids (those with the old and those with the new post-July 06 plates) can use the HOV-2 lanes on I-66 and I-64/264.
So, in that way, the I-95/395 lanes are getting some congestion relief from additional SOV hybrid use by the law not allowing HOV-3 use by SOV hybrids with the new plates.
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Posted By: colossus911
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2006 at 11:49am
NO!!! I would urge a strong no to dropping the limit. Would really hurt slugging, think of all the drivers would would only take one! The traffic in the main lanes is slow cause those people dont use their options. They CHOOSE to drive in slow lanes when they could slug, metro, bus or any other half dozen ways to work (I am sure someone boats up teh potomac from stafford everyday).
I think 3 is great, would be better if the otehr highways wend HOV-3. It pushes creative solutions for traffic, like slugging, or carpools. We shouldn't change it but expand it.
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Posted By: shelbybrynn
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2006 at 12:46pm
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I agree with Colossus on this one. They need to keep it HOV-3 and they need to make the hybrids adhere to the same rules as everyone else. The point is to get as many cars off the road as you possibly can.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2006 at 12:58pm
But the express lanes on I-395 are NOT congested, and the regular lanes are!
Did everyone see the incentives other localities are using such as reduced parking? Unfortunately, that decreases revenue and becomes an indirect tax increase for others. Hybrid exemption doesn't cost taxpayers and needs to be extended - clearly better for the environment than non-hybrid vehicles, and the more non-taxpayer incentives there are, the better.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2006 at 1:06pm
One more time....
More cars congesting roads isn't "clearly better for the environment".
Less cars of all types, flowing smoothly, IS clearly better for the environment.
And for those who are into "income redistribution" (as clearly hybrid buyers are), go socialist!
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: shelbybrynn
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2006 at 1:08pm
NoSUV,
You are clearly only concerned about the hybrid exemption because you own one. Surely, you are not suggesting that the HOV lanes are not congested. Of course there are times when it is LESS congested, but there are still plenty of backups on the HOV on a regular basis. The reason for this, the huge increase in hybrid vehicles (gotta credit the lack of law enforcement for the violators on this one too). I love the hybrid technology as it is more fuel efficient, but the real goal we should be trying attain, is to get more cars off the roads. The only way to achieve this is to promote mass transit, and slugging. You are hurting yourself in the long run if you SOV'it as you are really just making your commute, and everyone else's longer.
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Posted By: slugjo
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2006 at 2:44pm
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Once again, I observe all you others engaging NoSUV in futile discussion after he, once again, demonstrates that he is arguing from a position of ignorance and denial and is unable to evaluate the validity of his own argument. Ignorance: he only uses a few miles of the express lanes between Edsall Road and DC, and never experiences the express lane clogs between Potomac Mills and Springfield or at the southbound merge at Dumfries. Denial: he won't admit that traffic congestion is the problem of main concern on this forum or that congestion is a greater contributor to fuel consumption and emissions than drive system design.
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2006 at 2:54pm
YES- a SMART newbie!! Welcome slugjo.
GMHP was hea!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 7:57am
I-395 this morning in express lanes averaged 73 mph, and I was being passed! Shel - THERE IS NO CONGESTION on I-395 in the express lanes!!! And, Shel, if you read my previous post, you can clearly see that my reference was to I-395. What is it with you people and inability to read?
Now, the congestion problem is far less due to hybrid exemption than population growth. Is there anyone posting here who disputes that the population has increased since the last time lanes were added? Or are slugs doing the ostrich on this topic as well?
Have any of you noticed the increase in congestion in the regular lanes? CAN YOU LOOK TO YOUR RIGHT ON YOUR COMMUTE? OF course, you selfishly refuse to acknowledge what nearly everyone else has said about the region that the regular lanes are far more clogged now than they were, and that the average commute in them is well out of proportion with the express lane slow downs.
None of you have put forth a workable transportation solution except to whine that YOU should have access to the express lanes yet no one else should. Even though, especially on I-395, they rarely travel below the speed limit.
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 8:27am
NoSUV,
Are you suggesting opening up the morning I-395 HOV lanes at Edsall Road to all traffic to ease the regular lane backup from just south of Landmark (Duke St) to just north of Seminary Road? That's where it appears the worst morning I-395 backups occur inside the beltway.
When we got on the HOV from Burke this morning at about 6:25, I-395 HOV traffic was moving at least 65 mph from Va 644 to just before the Pentagon exit.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 8:47am
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sluDgE - Hadn't thought of that, but it would be a good experiment to see the impact. Perhaps a 2 week trial; kill HOV on I-395.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 9:02am
One must ask: are there people in the lanes "on the right" who could be cruising at HOV speeds if they would only pick up 1 or 2 more people to share the ride and alleviate congestion not only during the commute in, but also relieve some of the pressures of parking?
Maybe more efforts could be put towards more people sharing the ride than this insane plea to open up HOV to SOVs....that's about the most inane suggestion I've seen on anything dealing with commuting in this area. It equates to: remove the incentive to alleviate the problem. Good thinking if you got your diploma at a Kmart blue light special.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 9:06am
One must also ask - why are you afraid of having the experiment performed? If I-395 traffic in the express lanes becomes a snarl, then you have some hard data to back your beliefs. If both regular and express lanes free flow, on the other hand, you've got a different set of data.
I'm not worried about what would happen - why are you?
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 9:40am
What? Me? Afraid?
not in the least. The folks who do track the numbers of vehicles and their occupancy on the HOVs have better numbers than what your (or my) small sample size can reveal. The challenge is getting the politicos to respond to hard quantifiable data from strictly neutral sources and avoid idiocy like putting SOVs in HOV-designated lanes rather than merely responding to the PACs that flock to their doors with green slime trailing behind them.
In the vein of making the world a better place which many hybrid drivers ascribe to, I'll also submit the question regarding the equipping of their homes with appliances. (I know this is somewhat off topic and the moderators are welcome to delete this post if they find it irrelevant).
Do hybrid drivers also have solar water heating? Solar lighting? Blankets on their hot water heaters? Solar screens? How about all the light bulbs--they been replaced with energy efficient bulbs? Other household appliances? Stove? Home heating?
Would seem to me, the number of times the question has been asked about conventional vehicle drivers and their spending/purchasing habits/decisions should be turned around to hybrid drivers and their home ownership decisions...only seems fair to me. Oh, btw, these other choices are PROVEN technologies, but what's the dif between them and hybrid vehicles? They don't have the political backing that motorized vehicles do plus they don't have the marketing support that hybrids do. Oh, the irony of it all....
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 11:59am
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NoSB: you are aware, I'm sure, of the "non" HOV express lanes for the 14th street bridge. Why not just move that back to Edsall? Might actually make things safer by slowing express lanes to the speed limit.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 12:06pm
Aware, not concerned...doesn't affect me so why should I care (TIC).
[:p]
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 12:40pm
NoSB - goes with your previous post. Imagine the 14 St bridge if the regular lanes were NOT allowed to use the "HOV" lanes going across. Even MORE gridlock for regular lanes. But, you have a point - why should you care about regular lanes?
Good thing the legislature does.
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Posted By: shelbybrynn
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2006 at 4:00pm
NoSuV,
As usual you accuse everyone else of doing what you do (sticking your head in the sand). If you don't sit in congestion, then there must not be any. I am sure that the population growth has some impact on the HOV lanes but imagine a world in which there were no Single-Occupany Vehicles and no cheaters on the Express Lanes. I can guarantee that the congestion would be FAR less. On any given day, I can count at least eight hybrids in my immediate area. That is just the ones in my line of vision!! What I am trying to get through to you is that if you want to use the HIGH-OCCUPANY VEHICLE (HOV) lanes, great, but to do so you should be just that, a HIGH-OCCUPANCY VEHICLE!! Otherwise, you are just contributing to the problem and really not saving on the environment either. The whole point is to get cars off the road, hence handling the population growth and congestion AND helping the environment, otherwise you are the one sticking your head in the sand...
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 8:28am
shel - perhaps you need a history lesson. You know, don't you, that the express lanes weren't ALWAYS HOV on I95/I395? You realize that the lane usage has been evolutionary? Are you one of those people who refuse to believe that evolution stops when only YOU are happy?
The whole point NOW is to get everyone into something better than conventional vehicles. The next step after all of the gas guzzlers and poor emission vehicles are eliminated (or relegated to either regular lanes or completely off of Interstates) is to start limiting the alternate fuel vehicles on the road. But, we are nowhere near that point, yet - help out by buying a hybrid, will you?
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 8:37am
One could (probably should) view the HOV INCENTIVE like one does an investment opportunity. It seems that the most "traffic" towards the investment opp happens when the earnings look the highest. If HOV doesn't appear to be providing a significant enough benefit, many people will continue to sit in congestion further exacerbating the region's challenges.
If as shel suggests all the SOVs were removed from the HOV, then maybe more people would be willing to "share the ride" and contribute to part of the answer rather than complicating the problem further.
The sweeter HOV looks and works, the more folks who might consider carpooling as an option in order to save time.
Some folks' approaches to "equalize" the two "lane options" is tantamount to "income redistribution" for those who are unwilling to make any changes in their life in order to earn the benefits that come with more effort expended.
"Good thing the legislature does".---Who in the world are you kidding (besides yourself)? The legislature "cares" about campaign contributions and no individuals can hope to match the corporate contributions rolling in from Toyota & Honda. They care all right, just not about the things worth caring for (I guess I just agreed with in even though the beneficiaries change).
I don't expect you to 'get it', but the voice of truth needs to keep on trumpeting, otherwise those who would spread mistruths and relativistic selfishness might actually mislead the uninitiated.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 9:59am
NoSUV,
Just curious...
Why do you choose to commute alone and not pick up a rider or two (or three) on your way to and from work?
Have you ever told us sluggers and carpoolers about that?
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Posted By: shelbybrynn
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 10:25am
NoSuv,
1. You are the one that needs a history lesson. I have lived in Stafford County since the 70's (I grew up there). I have been commuting to Northern Va./DC since 1989. I am fully aware of the population growth of the region and the traffic patterns in the area. The reason they came up with the HOV lanes in the first place was to promote mass transit/carpooling, hence getting more cars OFF the road, hence reducing congestion. The more this happens the less congestion there is. Do the math...
2. I absolutely love the hybrid/alternative fuel technology. If you have read any of my previous posts, you will see that I fully support the hybrid vehicles as a whole as it makes us less dependent on foreign oil and it helps the environment. I wish they would start making it standard technology in all vehicles. I actully drive a flex fuel vehicle currently. Unfortunately, there aren't many places around here offer the full ethenol fuel, but I have signed petitions to get that going too. Even if I were allowed to drive solo on the HOV, I wouldn't because all that does is add time to mine and other people's commutes. If you don't need your car, slug or take mass transit. If you do need your car, pick-up some friendly slugs. It is as simple as that. Funny you would call carpoolers selfish, we are the ones that take the extra time and effort to get cars off the road. The only selfish ones I see are the Single Occupancy Drivers out there. I think you need to take a good look in the mirror.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 11:10am
Lately, too many of these threads have been devolving into stupid disputes with the intransigent, incorrigible, and inaccurate Mr. NoSUV.
His consistency is narcissistic: a thing is good if it requires no action or compromise on his part.
Rather than form a carpool, ride the bus, slug, or ride-share in any way, NoSUV wants to drive alone, and because he can afford a new car, he wants a special exemption so that he can avoid the traffic congestion.
He never shares a ride, as far as we can tell, but he pollutes our board with anti-ride-sharing diatribes -- which all come down to opening the HOV lanes to SOV's.
Can anyone verify that Mr. NoSUV does not work for a corporation that stands to profit from the toll roads?
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 11:36am
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Works for Fluor. Title is Manager of Slug Harrassment. 120k per year.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 11:49am
shel - maybe you need to look at the history of the express lanes; their first use was NOT for carpools.
Sponge - I had a short exchange with NoSB a few months back using personal email. NoSB on several occasions, unlike others who post here, indicated a sincere interest in resolving disputes. I live 1 light off of Little River Turnpike and I-495 and drive to Navy Yard. Slug lines require backtracking such that the commute with slugs is longer than just going in the regular lanes, and as you are aware, the slug demand for Navy Yard isn't all that great. I carpooled with another for about 3 months until he shifted to an office in Roslyn. I don't work for a corporation associated with toll roads.
NoSB can only verify that we corresponded on personal email and that I provided similar information. I doubt that will satisfy you, but it is what it is.
Nearly all of my over 500 posts have been to counter the anti-hybrid sentiments by slugs. Don't you find it hard to believe that there are over a post a day where slugs blast hybrids?
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Posted By: shelbybrynn
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 12:49pm
NoSUV,
HOV stands for High Occupancy Vehicle. The number 3 denotes that to be considered a High Occupancy Vehicle, you must have at least 3 people riding in your vehicle. No one on this board is against the hybrid vehicles. We are against selfish individuals, such as yourself, who choose to exasperate an already bad situation by being arrogant, Single Occupancy Drivers on the HOV-3 Lanes. It is really that simple.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 2:22pm
NoSUV, take the criticism of SOV hybrids personal if you want to, but few participants in this forum show animosity towards hybrids or hybrid drivers as a group or individuals. Its SOV hybrid drivers like you, who defend their right to drive solo and defy reasonable solutions to traffic/pollution/fuel consumption problems who personify the selfishness and egocentric behavoir that propigates what you describe as "hybrid hate." The fact that you do not participate in slugging, do not commute up I95/395, and will not be adversly affected by the HOT lanes, yet still post arrogant and defiant views here, reinforces your childish need for attention.
And while at times I find it frustrating, your propensity to debate (and lame attempts at it) provides me with a vehicle to form opinions and viewpoints that are supported by reason, logic, courtesy, and common sense. While you spout SOV selfishness, it allows me to retort with views that advocate courtesy and consideration to my fellow commuters. Thank you NoSUV for your arrogance, it reinforces my positions.
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Posted By: shelbybrynn
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 2:45pm
Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 07 Sep 2006 at 2:45pm
quote:
Originally posted by shelbybrynn
[br]NoSUV,
HOV stands for High Occupancy Vehicle. The number 3 denotes that to be considered a High Occupancy Vehicle, you must have at least 3 people riding in your vehicle. No one on this board is against the hybrid vehicles. We are against selfish individuals, such as yourself, who choose to exasperate an already bad situation by being arrogant, Single Occupancy Drivers on the HOV-3 Lanes. It is really that simple.
shel - well, you again missed the point. The lanes were NOT HOV at ANY time when originally put into use. The lanes on I66 are NOT HOV-3. The lanes on I95/I395 were NOT HOV-3 when HOV was first used with them - and motorcycles were not exempt until '94. E V O L U T I O N. The question here was on reducing to HOV-2 based on massive congesion in the regular lanes and next to NO congestion in the express lanes. Feel free to review posts in the hybrid section about hybrid hate - it has been and remains imbedded with many in the slugging community. Fortunately, not only does the rest of Virginia not agree with you, but also the rest of the world. It's that simple.
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Posted By: colossus911
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2006 at 10:10am
Lol too funny all you. I complain all the time about the 14th st bridge merge lanes into HOV and how badly they slow down my commute, so I would strongly, STRONGLY oppose the elimination of HOV on 395.
While the main lanes are slow, I would point out that those people CHOOSE to drive those lanes instead of slugging. The HOV lanes move quickly as a REWARD!!! for the fact that we CHOOSE to carpool with multiple individuals. The key here is its all about CHOICE.
I CHOOSE to strongly oppose any effort to dilute the effiencicy of HOV by opening it to all the SOV vehicles in teh world (I oppose cops using it, SOV Hybrids using it, and any other SOV use out there) I activly CHOOSE to support political candidates taht pay attention to my interest on this matter.
Am I selfish and self centered. Heck YEAH! Welcome to life in a free country. When my colleagues complain about their commute up 395 I say, oh, I picked up slugs and was here in a jiffy. Smiling the whole way.
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Posted By: shelbybrynn
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2006 at 10:20am
NoSUV,
You are clearly dilusional and everyone here knows it except you. Have you noticed that no one here agrees with you?!? I am done wasting my precious time on you.
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Posted By: slugjo
Date Posted: 08 Sep 2006 at 11:03am
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I agree with Colossus. In my experience (06:00-07:00 northbound) the main lanes on 395 aren't all that jammed up. They seem to move along reasonably well. The express lanes move along quickly, at what appears to me to be about maximum capacity for fast movement (as long as there aren't any accidents or deer or Sani-John trucks driving alongside a Metro bus). Any more traffic and we would have CONGESTION and everybody would be late. Of course slugs are biased in favor of keeping a good thing going. NoSUV doesn't have a leg to stand on.
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Posted By: PennyPrius
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2006 at 9:55am
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Everyone doesn't have the luxury of slugging. If you are a 9-5er (or close to it) you can do that but for those who work odd hours who still need to get to DC using 95 we need options too!
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2006 at 10:05am
So if you are working odd hours, PP, then what is your particular complaint? You can access the carpool lanes with no problems or restrictions. What, do you want a special lane reserved just for you?
Everybody on this board has worked jobs where they could not use the carpool lanes, for whatever reason. If you can't use the carpool lanes, then shut up and be grateful for the people who can and do -- they are keeping their cars at home, out of your way.
You want an option? Here's something you can try: Thinking before you post. (Don't cry, PPTroll.)
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Posted By: go2grl
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2006 at 11:08am
quote:
Originally posted by SpongeBob
[br]So if you are working odd hours, PP, then what is your particular complaint? You can access the carpool lanes with no problems or restrictions. What, do you want a special lane reserved just for you?
Everybody on this board has worked jobs where they could not use the carpool lanes, for whatever reason. If you can't use the carpool lanes, then shut up and be grateful for the people who can and do -- they are keeping their cars at home, out of your way.
You want an option? Here's something you can try: Thinking before you post. (Don't cry, PPTroll.)
Patrick used to be my favorite, until now. You took the words out of my mouth.[^]
SHAKE1T
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2006 at 2:32pm
Now, now, spongy, was that nastiness really necessary? Many people without a dog in the hunt post their views here, it's a free website. Besides, the obsurd posts from those who try to compensate for a lack of intelligence with arrogance, and without any idea how their suggestions would affect the actual commuters, let alone those without an actual reason to be here, make our responses seem down-right genius!
Now you seem somewhat enlightened for a spineless sea creature, so I'm sure you can see how the few selfish (shelfish), dim-witted, egocentric, pseudo-eco wanna-bes make logic really pop! It's sort of like light, in the dark. When I say something like "carpooling helps reduce traffic congestion, pollution, fuel consumption, dependence on foriegn fuel, etc.," and someone disagrees, its like "Wow!" they're idiots and they don't even know it!
Now I can't criticize Penny, she is honest about her motivations (and she has a cute name). But Penny, if you think slugging is a luxury, you should try it sometime. I don't consider standing in a dark parking lot in the rain, sleet or snow a luxury. Slugging is an innovative, alt. way to get to work, that's it! Most slugs don't even care that they are helping to solve the world's problems, we just want to get to work and back.
Ignorance is simply a lack of knowledge, not punishable by nastiness. Live, listen, read, learn and all will be forgiven.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2006 at 2:44pm
wow raymond = you should run for office! you really know how to polish a turd.
Yep, carpooling in a Hummer is better than SOV in a Hummer for "reduc[ing] traffic congestion, pollution, fuel consumption, dependence on foriegn fuel." Do you want to compare 3 people in a '75 pick up to a hybrid? 3 people in a '06 Hummer to a '06 Prius? 3 of your 4 statements are false - but, since you are a turd polisher, it's only the one that you care about.
Go get on a bus.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2006 at 2:59pm
Hummer? '75 pickup? What are you talking about?! Total Lunacy, that's what! Someone needs to wait 'till happy hour before they start drinking.
I've said it before, I'll say it again; I have nothing against hybrids, the product is not the villian here. There are lots of products. I think hybrids are a fad, a distraction from the real problems and a marketing ploy to rope in eco-wanna bes, but not bad per se. And its a free country, so buy a hybrid if you want to, its your money and you can waste it if you want to.
My gripe is with arrogant SOV hybrid drivers in the HOV lanes, like NoSUV, who think everyone should play by their rules. You won't live and let live, you want to rule. But like communism, your doctrine sucks, and people do not want to be coerced into doing something as stupid as paying more for a bandaid psudo-solution.
I'll get on a bus when you do. If you won't put up, then shut up! And NoSUV, this is what they call a showdown, pardner!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2006 at 3:06pm
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raymond - you've no way to verify that I rode the bus anymore than I do with you. Still makes you a turd polisher, though.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2006 at 3:11pm
Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2006 at 4:07pm
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Even I am put off by the level of discourse here. [:(]
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2006 at 8:45pm
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[:I] Now children ... play nice! [:I]
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2006 at 9:03am
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Still, I think Raymond has a valid point though. I've been away from posting for a long time. I logged in yesterday just to find out NoSUV still tries to get across his point. I don't think he has any, by the way. He recommends slugs to look to our right to see how congested the regular lanes are. Therefore, slugs are selfish. I'd even go further and say to NoSUV to get his head out of the sand and recommend people from regular lanes look to their left and see there's a system that started 30 years ago and still works great. That slugs aren't part of the problem. Moreover, slugs contribute to alliviate traffic by taking cars out of the roads. Who's the selfish now?
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2006 at 10:39am
I can answer for NoSUV. The selfish people are those not driving hybrids.
NoSUV still cannot fathom that the HOV lanes south of the beltway were built expressly for HOV from their inception.
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Posted By: USA
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2006 at 4:29pm
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To go back to some earlier assertions at the beginning of this thread, those of you who assert that I-66 was always HOV-2 have it wrong. When I-66 opened inside the Beltway in December 1982, it was initially HOV-4 in the peak direction. Almost nobody used it. They eased the rules to HOV-3 about a year after the road opened because of the underutilization, and the rules were further eased to HOV-2 in March 1995. The addition of an HOV lane on I-66 outside the Beltway, and on the Dulles Toll Road, came well after I-66 had opened inside the Beltway. The approach taken on I-66 outside the Beltway of using a different-colored shoulder lane with X and arrow signals to indicate when the lane is open was a direct result of the problems VDOT experienced in using the shoulder as a lane on I-95, which included at least one fatality when a trucker drove in that lane illegally and pancaked a stopped motorist.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2006 at 9:13pm
quote:
Originally posted by MDC
[br]I can answer for NoSUV. The selfish people are those not driving hybrids.
NoSUV still cannot fathom that the HOV lanes south of the beltway were built expressly for HOV from their inception.
Wrong. Check the facts.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2006 at 10:05am
We'd be happy to. Care to share a link with us?
Perhaps you are thinking of the inception of the entire carpool lanes concept, rather than the beginning of the work on the portion outside the Beltway, which is what MDC is referring to? The original plan was for buses, yes. But by the time they got to planning the section outside the Beltway, HOV-3 was an established fact.
All I can say is that I was on the carpool lanes the day they opened from Lorton to the Occoquan, and again when they opened it down to Dale City and to Route 234. Were you? Didn't think so.
Every inch of those sections was designed and built for carpools, buses, and motorcycles. Hype-breds were still on the drawing board.
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Posted By: colossus911
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2006 at 8:46pm
Oh, reading this is really getting to me. I think I am starting to channel a little anti-NoSUV...
Hybrids in HOV have only accomplished one thing. Destruction of the planet. They are a leading cause of surburban sprawl destroying the forests and farms of Prince William and Stafford County. Remember that many of those Hybrids are owned by someone who has moved south plowed under our natural Virginian forests for massive McMansions in the outer-exurbs but yet get to keep their SOV commute time due to the ability to use HOV lanes. The greatest threat to the preservation of the rural nature of our southern counties are Hybrids and the Hybrid exemption to HOV lanes.
...oh wow, dont know where that came from but discuss amongst yourselves...man I am just getting a little goofy these days. Too many cops at Bobs.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2006 at 9:35pm
quote:
Originally posted by SpongeBob
[br]We'd be happy to. Care to share a link with us?
http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Shirley_Busway.html
"In September 1969, a plan was put into effect whereby buses were permitted exclusive use during the morning rush period of 4.5 miles of reversible lanes which already had been constructed. This meant that each bus saved between 12 and 18 minutes on the morning run. Almost immediately bus ridership increased by 15 percent and continued until an increase of about 35 percent was realized.
...On December 10, 1973, automobiles with four or more occupants were permitted access to the previously exclusive bus lanes at a few selected access points,"
Read the whole thing and you can see why we need to have ONLY buses and hybrids using the express lanes. The buses worked before, and they can work again.
Do try to save the planet...get on the bus or use a hybrid.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2006 at 1:45pm
Fool,
The lanes south of the beltway were built in the 1990's.
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