Contact your VA delegate & senator
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Topic: Contact your VA delegate & senator
Posted By: Jody
Subject: Contact your VA delegate & senator
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2006 at 11:29am
Hi. Jody here. Based on the postings I've seen regarding hybrids clogging the HOV lanes, riders need to contact their state delegates and senator about this problem. I emailed my representatives about the increased commute time on HOV lanes. I suggested HOV lanes be changed to HOV-3 for regular cars and Hybrid-2. Send emails to their Richmond and district offices.
Or, is there a way to start a petition on-line for riders and drivers of regular cars to sign and send to all delegates? With people moving further south but still commuting to their jobs in the District, delegates need to be aware of this on-going problem. Right now, the drivers of regular cars and riders outnumber the hybrids. We need to make our voices heard.
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Replies:
Posted By: lakeridgeresident
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2006 at 1:20pm
Don't worry, Jody, it's already "solved." HOT lanes will begin construction in 2008. There will be lots of solitary drivers, hybrids and otherwise, once the construction is completed. Talk to Flour-Transurban, they will own the HOT/HOV lanes.
And don't think it will stay free. When the HOT/HOV lanes in California did not make enough revenue, the owner started charging HOVs (half price, but the quantity of HOVS dropped sharply after that happened).
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Posted By: CallmeMrSlug
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2006 at 1:25pm
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Not only will it not be free, your tax dollars will help this private company begin charging you a toll. See the recent washington Post article I posted in the Hot Lanes thread. I would guess that since they are saying they need a 30% state kick in for financing of the beltway project, we might expect to be asked to cough up about a half billion of more for the I-95 project. Such a deal...
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2006 at 2:28pm
It doesn't surprise me that they are now saying it wont fly without subsidies.
But this thing is far from over if they think VA is going to cough up $100 MM that could be spread around to other projects.
There are several ways to look at it. One is that HOT lanes in general may be in trouble because of increased costs and the traffic an revenue analysis that they have been doing. Another is that the thing will be profitable but they are just playing hardball.
Also, Fluor is involved in both the Beltway and 95 projects. Maybe they decided the Beltway project was not going to be as profitable as 95 so they are playing hardball on that part or dragging their feet to delay it by 10 years.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2006 at 9:41am
Where's your data reside in order to support the claim "speeds haven't decreased....one bit"?
I'd like to look at a comparative study (not the results, but the data and methodology used) in order to draw my own conclusions.
If they're agreeing with you, it's out of ignorance (once again) since they should be asking similar questions to mine. Unless they're just trying to placate you and I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to rule that out either.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2006 at 11:11am
Thank you, NOSUV, for once again inserting your unwelcome and uninformed schnozz in here.
This morning, we ran into a heavy backup before Glebe on the carpool lanes. Two hype-breads in front of us, three behind us. All solo drivers.
This was about 8:15 a.m.
VDOT itself, worthless as the agency is, has at least recognized the reality that hypies are clogging the carpool lanes.
Are you really mo' stupid than VDOT? Is that even possible?
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Posted By: DC2RV
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2006 at 1:21pm
Until now I've stayed out of the fray - but I have to say that the only point NoSUV has is the one on top of his head.
Jody points out that commuting times have increased. Numbnut immediately denounces her saying speeds haven't decreased.
Or was there some invisible ink in Jody's message that only he could read?
btw - I disagree with Jody's HOV-2 suggestion for Hybrids. Hybrids should have the same number of people in them as any other vehicle.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2006 at 1:23pm
Agreed with DC2RV on the #s to be carried in each vehicle. Similar to the challenges for HOT, how does one adequately (let alone accurately) count the number of passengers in each vehicle using existing technology without stopping every vehicle for a visual inspection?
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: Jody
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2006 at 10:40am
NoSUV - Commuting time has increased on the HOV lanes with the addition of SOV drivers. And based on the other posters here, they agree.
You're entitled to your opinion - no matter how wrong you are.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2006 at 11:32am
Jody,
If you add 300,000 people to a region without any transportation improvements do you:
a. Expect all traffic to move as smoothly as before
b. Expect traffic in Express Lanes to move as smoothly as before with additional commuters all traveling in the Regular Lanes
c. Blame slowdowns in the Express Lanes not on more commuters but on the initiative to encourage consumers to slow the rate of Global Warming and reduce fuel consumption.
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Posted By: DC2RV
Date Posted: 01 Nov 2006 at 7:41pm
NoSUV - Were you bored or did it really take you 6 days to postulate your questions? I'm not Jody, but I'm going to take a stab at your questions.
You ask:
If you add 300,000 people to a region without any transportation improvements do you:
a. Expect all traffic to move as smoothly as before.
No, no one is that naive. (my faith in humanity, though constantly tested, is optimistic that this answer is shared by the majority)
b. Expect traffic in Express Lanes to move as smoothly as before with additional commuters all traveling in the Regular Lanes
No, I (like any rational person) would expect additional delays due to people availing themselves of alternatives (hybrids or other special exemptions made possible by the State of Virginia).
c. Blame slowdowns in the Express Lanes not on more commuters but on the initiative to encourage consumers to slow the rate of Global Warming and reduce fuel consumption.
No, slowdowns are due to the increased number of vehicles in the HOV lanes. Comprende? Vehicles. (and what initiative are you talking about? While noble perhaps, Virginia isn't into green ideologies - it accepts out of state waste for crying out loud)
An increase of 300,000 people could mean an increase of 300,000 VEHICLES (the deity of your choosing forbid). Virginia has obviously opted to succumb to those who won't try the bus, carpools, and yes, slugging (that system of casual carpooling to which you're obviously so averse). The state is interested in moving people from point A to B and in reducing congestion. The problem is, they're punishing those who have joined carpools, rode buses and vanpools, picked up or rode with complete strangers - all in the interest of keeping vehicles off the road (albeit with time/cost savings) - by adding VEHICLES to the HOV lanes.
Try reading Dick Boyd's posts (ok, granted, a laborious chore at times). His point is to fill the number of empty seats (on buses, in cars, etc...) on our roads. THAT is the key. How does an SOV hybrid help? It doesn't.
What's ultimately going to happen is that both sets of lanes will be equally congested. And while you avail yourself of a choice made possible by the State of Virginia (and hide behind the notion of being green) you're not doing anyone any good but yourself.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2006 at 8:23am
DC2RV - OK, you've made a good start at a rational conversation. Now that the easy part is done, let's try something harder:
Which is the more pressing problem, real-time traffic concerns or incremental global climate change? In other words, have you considered that the traffic problems in the area are caused more from increasing the population without transportation improvements (the concurrent thread with Indiana grad students highlights the difficulties of commuting for most Virginians in the regular lanes), while the environmental impact is caused by a total increase in non-alternate fueled vehicles?
The previous reasoning discussed an increase of several hundred thousand people to the region, and the resultant increase in vehicle. Almost NONE of those vehicles were "green." You can either read statistics or walk around the block - very, very few clean vehicles are in the area in proportion to the total number of vehicles.
Now the condumdrum: how can we slow global warming while having the least possible impact on the transportation problem?
We could ban all non-hybrid vehicles from the interstate, but even phasing in such a decision would place to severe a strain on public resources. We could insist that only hybrids can use the express lanes, but at this time, that might cause an impact on the transportation system because slugs have cheated the public transportation system for so long that the public system is unlikely in the short term to meet the demand.
What we really know is that nearly all of us are more worried about the short term problem of our daily commute and personal convenience than something that is going to happen 20 - 50 years from now from our actions. Just look at the folks who post and smoking - it doesn't hurt them today, and they cannot acknowledge what it means for the future. Is it any wonder that they resist initiatives to slow the global warming trend that they have a hand in creating?
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2006 at 10:15am
Care to list your credentials as an expert on climate change, NoSUV?
I think you must be made of copper, because I've never seen anything turn green so fast.
In terms of climate change, I once was involved in that field, and if memory serves, the main sources of greenhouse gas emissions were: industry, power generation, deforestation, the transportation industry, agriculture, and private households, to include private autos.
Transportation as a whole contributes only 14%-15% of the greenhouse gas emissions responsible for climate change. Your pathetic hype-bred is a feel-good, self-congratulatory, smug little attempt to claim the higher moral ground, a stance propped up by the ADVERTISING you've swallowed.
If everyone in the U.S. had a hybrid today, immediately, it would make nary a dent in the continued increase of CO2 in the atmosphere. Hardly enough impact to measure.
Want to do something really useful? Here are some Sponge-worthy ideas:
Vote President Cheney and his puppet George out of office.
Reduce your electricity consumption at home.
Write a letter protesting the relaxation of the Clean Air Act standards with regard to the coal power industry.
Contribute cash to a qualified environmental group fighting deforestation.
Move to China and protest their energy policies.
Stop emitting hot air out of your mouth.
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Posted By: darkprime
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2006 at 10:23am
If i'm not mistaken, if Hybrids are driving on the HOV lanes without any slowdown in traffic (i.e. they are traveling at a constant 65-75 mph), then they are ONLY burning fuel, they are not using their battery. Any improvements at that point that they get in mpg is due to aerodynamics and a small, efficient engine.
Since hybrids get their best MPG in city driving, why not FORCE hybrids to be in only the slow lanes, where they can use their batteries more, get a better MPG, and use less fuel? Wouldn't that make more sense to best take advantage of them?
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Posted By: Hooch
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2006 at 10:38am
Since NoSUV doesn't drive on I-95, and doesn't contribute to slugging, why doesn't he find a message board on the greenpeace website, or, as stated in Happy Gilmore, "have a nice warm glass of shut the h*ll up" :)
Hooch
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2006 at 12:28pm
hootch - asked and answered ON THIS THREAD!
dark - constant speed, not constant acceleration.
Sponge - Are you now saying 15% isn't worth it? Seems to me that the percentage of hybrids in the express lanes is near that, yet you seem to harp on THAT reduction. Most sponges have better consistency. Or, are you saying that you know more about Global Warming and it's not a concern? I'm not that surprised - just because nearly every scientific magazine and most newspapers (Post had 2 article on it Tuesday 10/31) are writing about it, you still have the freedom to ignore those warnings.
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Posted By: Hooch
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2006 at 1:32pm
Sorry SUV, didn't see your answer, still don't. Did however notice that you claim average speed on 395 to be at or above posted speed limit. Funny, every single day this week HOV has gone from 60mph on 95 to 25-30 mph around LRT (isn't that where you get on?? ) all the way to the Pentagon. We sit in stop and go the rest of the way, surrounded by SOV's in HOV's, and they're not violators.
Hooch
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2006 at 1:52pm
Hootch - interesting that you should mention violators, or cheaters. Haven't seen anything on this board for nearly a year. Did they all just disappear from such wonderful enforcement? Now, be a good boy and look back to 10/26 on this thread. As far as the slow down, what hour do you commute? I've noticed the infamous Pentagon backup getting worse, but nothing from Edsall to Exit 7.
Sponge commented on the Pentagon backup about 18 months ago. Perhaps you can squeeze it out of him again.
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Posted By: Hooch
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2006 at 2:03pm
KnowSyouV - wasn't referring to violators or cheaters, I see very few of those without CF/CX tags, and it's usually around the cutoff time somewhere along my 20+ mile slug ride. I was referring to the SOV greenpeace squad cars.
And for the record, the vast majority of the posters here (myself included) don't hate/bash hybrids. They are better for the environment no doubt. But, to own one and drive alone preaching that you're saving the planet because you care is a bit hypocritical don't you think? My neighbor owns two, alternates driving them from Rt 234 to D.C. every day, and picks up riders. She also recycles and has an electric lawn mower. I'd say she's one hybrid owner that cares, and that I don't see as a hypocrite.
Hooch
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Posted By: Luddite
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2006 at 4:29pm
Hooch,
I'm not in the vast majority of which you write. I bash hybrids at every opportunity. I bet you $5 that your neighbor rarely, if ever, picks up riders. Hybrid ownership isn't about anything but riding solo on HOV. Got it? Respectfully submitted.
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Posted By: scottt
Date Posted: 02 Nov 2006 at 5:38pm
quote:
Originally posted by darkprime
[br]If i'm not mistaken, if Hybrids are driving on the HOV lanes without any slowdown in traffic (i.e. they are traveling at a constant 65-75 mph), then they are ONLY burning fuel, they are not using their battery. Any improvements at that point that they get in mpg is due to aerodynamics and a small, efficient engine.
Since hybrids get their best MPG in city driving, why not FORCE hybrids to be in only the slow lanes, where they can use their batteries more, get a better MPG, and use less fuel? Wouldn't that make more sense to best take advantage of them?
Quite right. Hybrids have no business in the HOV lanes (unless they have 3 or more) since they would get better gas mileage in bumper to bumper traffic than HOV
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2006 at 7:54am
scottt - better in bumper to bumper? Which scientific papers are you quoting? Do you have any empirical data?
Are you assuming that the vehicle does not accelerate in bumper to bumper? Or that it accelerates less than when at a near constant higher speed?
Or are you just making things up because you so very much want to believe it?
Buy a hybrid, try it out, then report back your actual findings. Right now, I'd have to say that you are wrong, wrong, wrong.
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Posted By: darkprime
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2006 at 9:00am
NoSUV, a hybrid recharges it's batteries when either a.) The engine turns the generator, which burns gas, b.) coasting shifts kinetic energy to the generator, c.) braking shifts kinetic energy to the generator.
When driving on the highway at a constant speed, you lose the benefits of options b and c. So to maximize battery generation to use more battery power (which would use less gas), you want to be coasting/braking a lot. You cannot do this on free flowing traffic at high speeds, otherwise you would cause an accident around here. But by staying on the regular lanes, you can coast and brake much more frequently.
We all now though that you hate the regular lanes and thing you should be priveledged to drive SOV on the HOV. I think this is just a very elaborate plot of yours to clog the HOV lanes so that there is stop and go traffic on it, thus allowing you to get more efficient use out of your batteries. This seems unfortunately extremely selfish.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2006 at 9:30am
NoSUV, if you read my earliest posts again you will see that I worked on climate change mitigation projects for two years. But I don't claim to be Mr. Greenjeans, like you.
The 15% to which I refer actually covers ALL transportation fuels, including those used by railroads, semis, ocean liners, automobiles, airplanes, helicopters, and Wonder Woman's invisible jet, too.
Of the 15%, how much of that is from private autos? Not much, actually. Only automobiles are subject in the U.S. to emissions standards while the other fuel users can spew black clouds of diesel into the air.
Your hybrid is a feel-good smug-machine in terms of its environmental impact.
Want a good reason to own one? Reducing gasoline consumption reduces the need for the U.S. to maintain control of the Persian Gulf states. Driving a hybrid is like spitting in ExxonMobil's eye and managing to hit Dick Cheney at the same time!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2006 at 10:13am
quote:
Originally posted by darkprime
[br]NoSUV, a hybrid recharges it's batteries when either a.) The engine turns the generator, which burns gas, b.) coasting shifts kinetic energy to the generator, c.) braking shifts kinetic energy to the generator.
When driving on the highway at a constant speed, you lose the benefits of options b and c. So to maximize battery generation to use more battery power (which would use less gas), you want to be coasting/braking a lot. You cannot do this on free flowing traffic at high speeds, otherwise you would cause an accident around here. But by staying on the regular lanes, you can coast and brake much more frequently.
We all now though that you hate the regular lanes and thing you should be priveledged to drive SOV on the HOV. I think this is just a very elaborate plot of yours to clog the HOV lanes so that there is stop and go traffic on it, thus allowing you to get more efficient use out of your batteries. This seems unfortunately extremely selfish.
darkprime, once again, constant speed = 0 acceleration. Rethink your option b.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2006 at 11:49am
What, no reply to me, NoSUV? Funny how often that happens.
Or are you still aghast that you bought a Japanese car whose principle global effect will be to reduce, infinitesimely, America's hegemony? Are you a Cheney-lover?
Look out! He's got a gun! [:)]
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Posted By: LDOMAJ
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2006 at 12:24pm
quote:
Originally posted by SpongeBob
[br]What, no reply to me, NoSUV? Funny how often that happens.
Or are you still aghast that you bought a Japanese car whose principle global effect will be to reduce, infinitesimely, America's hegemony? Are you a Cheney-lover?
Look out! He's got a gun! [:)]
I would rather go hunting with Dick Cheney than riding in a car with Ed Kennedy...[^]
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Posted By: darkprime
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2006 at 12:33pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]quote:
Originally posted by darkprime
[br]NoSUV, a hybrid recharges it's batteries when either a.) The engine turns the generator, which burns gas, b.) coasting shifts kinetic energy to the generator, c.) braking shifts kinetic energy to the generator.
When driving on the highway at a constant speed, you lose the benefits of options b and c. So to maximize battery generation to use more battery power (which would use less gas), you want to be coasting/braking a lot. You cannot do this on free flowing traffic at high speeds, otherwise you would cause an accident around here. But by staying on the regular lanes, you can coast and brake much more frequently.
We all now though that you hate the regular lanes and thing you should be priveledged to drive SOV on the HOV. I think this is just a very elaborate plot of yours to clog the HOV lanes so that there is stop and go traffic on it, thus allowing you to get more efficient use out of your batteries. This seems unfortunately extremely selfish.
darkprime, once again, constant speed = 0 acceleration. Rethink your option b.
Yes, constant speed = 0 acceleration. Constant Speed > 0 means you are either coasting downhill where friction is offsetting gravity, or you are using the engine. At constant speed, your hybrid batteries are not recharging UNLESS you are burning gas to do so. Even if you are using your batteries at constant speed, they will run out and you will only be using gas (and your little engine will work extra hard to maintain say 65-75 mph).
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2006 at 2:03pm
Ah, now is the time we raise the question again: Viewed from a holistic standpoint, does a hybrid increase or decrease the entire pollution? Realize, there's more than exhaust to be considered.
Consider production and disposal challenges.
Not to mention all the marketing materials that were produced....
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: Jody
Date Posted: 03 Nov 2006 at 4:33pm
Hi. Jody here. Thanks to all for responding to NoSUV's post to me, especially Hooch -- your response made me laugh.
Oh well. I'm still going to continue to email my delegates about this ongoing problem.
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Posted By: darkprime
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2006 at 8:12am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
dark - this is one of those cases where you don't know what you are talking about. Perhaps you should test drive one so you can see for yourself. Look again at your option b. When the hybrid is at constant speed, the battery alternately charges and discharges to maintain that speed - particularly since the acceleration needed is minimal.
Let us know how the test drive goes - looking forward to you verifying the data.
NoSUV - this is one of those cases where you don't know what you are talking about. Please read the technical manuals again and why not take a course in physics 101? And yes, I already did (you have to if you want to be a physicist). Just because you believe that's how it will work in real life doesn't make it so. You are just too willing to believe anything the hybrid makers tell you. And no, I do not plan on taking one for a test drive as I'm happy with my 32 mpg on the highway car. I do however have a friend who's a mechanical engineer with a 2005 Prius who confirms my findings and also is greatly dissappointed with it's advertised mpg on the highways.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2006 at 9:26am
quote:
Originally posted by darkprime
[br]quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
dark - this is one of those cases where you don't know what you are talking about. Perhaps you should test drive one so you can see for yourself. Look again at your option b. When the hybrid is at constant speed, the battery alternately charges and discharges to maintain that speed - particularly since the acceleration needed is minimal.
Let us know how the test drive goes - looking forward to you verifying the data.
NoSUV - this is one of those cases where you don't know what you are talking about. Please read the technical manuals again and why not take a course in physics 101? And yes, I already did (you have to if you want to be a physicist). Just because you believe that's how it will work in real life doesn't make it so. You are just too willing to believe anything the hybrid makers tell you. And no, I do not plan on taking one for a test drive as I'm happy with my 32 mpg on the highway car. I do however have a friend who's a mechanical engineer with a 2005 Prius who confirms my findings and also is greatly dissappointed with it's advertised mpg on the highways.
Ah, dark. Yes indeed - not only are you ignorant, but by choice you stay that way. Does a test drive harm you? The worst that will happen is that you will discover that you are wrong about highway driving BY TRYING IT YOURSELF! Don't go on "belief" - go with experience.
I'm sorry you didn't go to a real school for physics, as well as get practical experience in that field.
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Posted By: darkprime
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2006 at 11:38am
***EDITTED POST****
There's no need for me to stoop to NoSUVs level of insults, lies, arrogance, and ignorance. I'm bigger than that.
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Posted By: Jody
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2006 at 4:02pm
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I agree with you darprime. All I can say is, if he's married, I pity his wife. And if he isn't, I can understand why.
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Posted By: darkprime
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2006 at 10:39am
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Jody or anyone for that matter, do you know of any study that's been done to get an idea of how many SOV Hybrids are actually using HOV? We keep hearing numbers bouncing around and it sure would be helpful if we had some observed and recorded data versus guesswork.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2006 at 10:47am
NoSUV, you again failed to answer my points, and made a false comparison.
My point is that the environmental impacts of even ten thousand hybrids are so miniscule in the scales of global climate change that it is inaccurate for you to make "I'm saving the world, you're not," claims about them.
The hype-breds are just like a lot of other lies fed to us over the boob-tube by clever marketing types.
There is so much of this pseudo-world-saving B.S. that gets passed off as "green" or "eco-friendly" or "ethical". Just this morning my gorge rose in Starbucks as I beheld "Ethos" bottled water, with the idiotic and mis-informing tag-line of "Helping Children Get Clean Water". Oh, for Pete's sake, what a load of feel-good Birkenstockwearinghummus-eatingdreadlockingPatagoniashopping tripe.
Starbucks (whose coffee and scones I consume daily) is giving a whole nickel for every over-priced bottle of this guilt-washing water towards third-world water projects. A total of $10M over five years -- essentially a drop in the fricking bucket of what is needed to have a serious impact on the water/sanitation issues of even a pair of African villages.
Ha! They probably spent that much on their Flash-driven website!
The total environmental impact of this self-congratulatory, self-delusional dismissive and silly first-world arrogance is not nil -- it is negative: plastic bottles by the ton, for one thing.
Want to help the children of other countries? Send cash to CARE, or UNICEF, or the International Red Cross. Then drink from a public water fountain. The H2O is perfectly fine.
Ethos water and the Prius -- birds of an artificial, media-induced feather.
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Posted By: Jody
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2006 at 12:26pm
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Hi Darkprime. There was an article in the Washington Post about VDOT releasing a report last fall stating a percentage increase (double digits) of hybrids on the HOV lanes from when they were initially allowed onto HOV, but it did not give an actual number of hybrids. VDOT warned the VA legislature that if they didn't do something, the HOV lanes would become as congested as the regular lanes. Unfortunately, our state legislature decided to "study" it for another year, and extended the hybrid exemption.
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Posted By: Hooch
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2006 at 3:45pm
Does anyone besides me notice how often KnowSyouV calls everyone stupid, ignorant, etc., then tells them they can't read and to try reading his post over again? Seems to me that if the author continuously has to tell people over and over to read his/her work again, maybe the author is the idiot?
Hooch
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