New Interim Agreement on HOT Signed
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Topic: New Interim Agreement on HOT Signed
Posted By: Bob
Subject: New Interim Agreement on HOT Signed
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2006 at 2:20pm
VDOT has signed the "interim agreement" with Fluor/Transurban
There is some text and several pdfs posted on the VDOT site.
Mostly legalese but we need to read it. Please post if you find any damaging tidbits we can use.
This stinks.
http://virginiadot.org/projects/ppta-I-95_I-395HOTLanes.asp
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Replies:
Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 25 Oct 2006 at 3:55pm
Here is a good description of what transpired, although this site is a constant cheerleader for toll roads and always paints a rosy picture
http://tollroadsnews.info/artman/publish/article_1567.shtml
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2006 at 7:49am
And from the article Bob posted there is an amount mentioned for the targeted average toll.[:(]
It reads as follows:
"Fluor/TU in their proposal said that preliminary estimates indicated average tolls of 27c/mile (17c/km) but today the state's finance chief Barbara Rees and Transurban's Michael Kulper both stressed that traffic levels will dictate tolls - because of the requirement to maintain free flow." [:(]
If that's the average, what's the worst case?
We've seen another article that says $35 one-way from Dumfrees. [:0]
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Posted By: LDOMAJ
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2006 at 10:41am
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That is still a piece of change coming all the way up (60 miles?)... about $16.20 based on my back of the envelope figures.
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2006 at 2:27pm
On the 27 cents per mile, first of all, it is clear they are waffling on it, which means it will be a lot higher than that unless they can extort another couple hundred mill from VA.
Second, even using the 27 cents, they almost certainly are talking about an average over all hours of the day, 365 days of the year. Keep in mind that these things NEVER shut down, even at 2 am.
So, my guess is that for rush hour it will be much higher. If we assume something like 40 cents, well you can do the math. But they have already said that it can go north of $1 per mile on clogged segments.
I will have to admit, they are in a tough PR spot for several reasons. They have their investors sitting there that want high revenue, but they dont want to scare the public and tell them what it will actually be.
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Posted By: CallmeMrSlug
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2006 at 2:46pm
Bob
You are exactly correct on the "average". The cost during rush hour will be much, much higher than 27 cents a mile. It may be 40 cents as you suggest or even higher. What consistently amazes me is how this is not a political issue in Stafford or Fredericksburg. I mean, speaker Howell, of Stafford, continues to block funding for NoVa road improvements, which leaves oddball ideas like HOT as the only alternative to road financing. And Stafford keeps electing him over and over. Of course, when its drivers are paying 16.00 each way to commute to DC, they will be outraged, but he will be long gone by then. The time to voice your disgust and exercise political power is NOW. Write speaker Howell or your Fredericksburg delegates and tell them you can NOT afford to spend 32.00 a day to travel on what should be a public road!!!
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2006 at 3:53pm
I sent an email to Fluor/Transurban, regarding the impact of toll lanes on HOV3 users, lets see if I get a response.
Supposedly we would ride for free, drivers would be requested to have an ezpass type device in their cars. If it is like ezpass, which I have and love, I pay 1$ a month just to have that little white box on my car. Nothing is free anymore. I posted the entire document from VDOT in the general slug topics for view. The link at the bottom brings you to the Fluor website and glorify's the 95 toll lanes, making it seem the like the miracle cure to traffic congestion. We'll see. Looks like we have three more years of HOV free.
GMHP was hea!
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2006 at 3:58pm
One of the tactics that they used in the HOT meetings and in the literature is saying that people won't really pay the toll on the entire 50 miles, or even the 25 miles from Woodbridge. Rather, you get people jumping in and out of the HOT lanes every few miles depending on their needs and financial wherewithal. So even if the average is 40 cents per mile, the standard person would only typically pay 8-10 bucks.
Unfortunately, if people jump in and out, that causes traffic jams in both the HOV and main lanes.
I am sure they will also say that, even if it goes to $1.50 southbound at Springfield in the pm, if that is what the market demand is --that it is fair. And also who could object even if the Lexus lanes are in there, because you are getting infrastructure paid for by the wealthy. (Then they will say that it is the entire cross section of society , not the wealthy).
I have been around and around with this but the bottom lines is they are going to screw up the incentive for HOV, and when that happens we are in deep doo doo.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 26 Oct 2006 at 5:57pm
Bob -
NoSB said it right in the general area -- for too many it's all about ME. The rest of it could be said me ONLY. The attitude from so many is that they want something for themselves and then do what ever they can so others cannot also have it, whether it's property (how many no development folks have you heard - they are in, but no one else can), tax breaks, or use of express lanes.
You personally and slugs in general fought to keep hybrids out of the express lanes. You said "bottom lines is they are going to screw up the incentive for HOV, and when that happens we are in deep doo doo."
So, you've screwed with the incentive for express lanes, too - and now the entire system is in deep doo doo. You have to partially thank yourself for the toll lanes - you alienated nearly all of the hybrid owners, and if one is to believe folks like scottt, it's no big deal for THEM to pay the toll.
Fight them all, lose them all.
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Posted By: SpongeBob
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2006 at 10:02am
Do we all agree that NoSUV is now, officially, a raving lunatic? I mean, I can barely understand what points he's making. It sounds like he thinks ridesharers are selfish, opposition to hype-breds CAUSED Fluor's toll road proposal, and fighting against hype-bred congestion reduces the incentive to rideshare.
Huh? Do I need more coffee or something?
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 27 Oct 2006 at 3:50pm
NoSUV- dont you think the hybrid owners alienated THEMSELVES first? That they didnt take advantage of the SOV rule and run with it- alone, as a single rider? They alienate themselves when they pass by their commuter lots and drive the HOV lanes alone instead of contributing to their community. How about when they don personalized plates like SOV, OFNSV, SLGFRE etc...
Ever heard of "dog eat dog"? "live together, die alone?" grrr.....
No need to soak up more coffee spongy, NoSUV is just ranting now.
GMHP was hea!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2006 at 9:17am
Fight them all, lose them all. Once upon a time, Bob asked about allies -- well after creating enemies. If hybrid owners can afford the cost differential for the purpose of using the express lanes, do you honestly think that a toll will cause them to blink? Eliminating the exemption only fuels the desire for a toll for them.
Sucks when you don't like the problem you helped to create.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2006 at 4:00pm
Hybrids will pay toll just like any other car. We will al pay. So why not unite? Allies! Sounds like NoSUV is the enemy! An enemy of freedom of thought, freedom of choice. An enemy of the environment, and of every other driver on the road. But NoSUV will likely not have to pay a toll.
NoSUV's exception: NoSUV does not drive 95. So why are we arguing? NoSUV is an agitator, an antagonist, a lobbist for hybrid manufacturers, a hybrid salesman, a whiney commuter who probably has faced the fact that no one wants to ride in the same car as him. Who would? You lose! And thanks to closed minds like you, we all lose!
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Posted By: Luddite
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2006 at 4:46pm
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I always thought NoSUV was a female.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2006 at 11:44am
NoSUV is androgenous. Maybe that's the problem?
Apologies in advance to the rest of the androgenous population.
Did NoSUV just admit that hybrid drivers are actually paying more for their SOV privledge?
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