Post articles abt HOT Lanes -contact your reps!
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Topic: Post articles abt HOT Lanes -contact your reps!
Posted By: jlcnole
Subject: Post articles abt HOT Lanes -contact your reps!
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2007 at 8:48am
Article from yesterday's Post about the pending vote on whether or not to proceed with HOT lanes on 95/395:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/17/AR2007041701694.html
and then the National Capital Region Transportation Planning Board delayed the vote by a month:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/18/AR2007041802356.html
Contact members of the board to express your concerns over the impending HOT lanes:
http://www.mwcog.org/committee/committee/members.asp?COMMITTEE_ID=15
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Replies:
Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2007 at 11:04am
Did anyone else's stomach do a flop at the idea of paying 42 a day to commute?
I don't believe for a second they are going to find some easy, efficient, miracle way to decipher HOV commuter vs. SOV willing-to-pay drivers. I will personally have to move or change jobs if we end up paying to go to work. Yes- PAYING TO GO TO WORK- that is what it boils down too. Why cant the state improve the roadways? Why do we have to bring in some private company with dollar signs in their eyes to "virtually guarantee congestion-free rides for transit at a time when there is little public money to expand roadways".
Lets not even get into the chaos the construction of these uber wonderful HOT lanes and "improvements" will cause. Springfield mixing bowl- anyone? This is just craziness.
Inhale, exhale... Ok, I'm better now.
Slug'n till 2010 (when the HOT lanes roll in)
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Posted By: Hooch
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2007 at 11:41am
Sweeeeeet, $200 a week to get to work in less than 2 hours. Can't wait for this to happen. If traffic congestion is really the issue, why don't they just turn the regular lanes of I-95 into a toll road?? Start charging all the people who are too lazy to car pool or use mass transit a fee for clogging up the regular lanes. Except for truckers and vacationers passing through D.C., I'll bet 75% of the bottlneck is caused by NOVA drivers to lazy or stupid to try other commuting options.
Hooch
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Posted By: IH8TRAFFIC
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2007 at 9:09am
You have nailed HOOCH!!!!!!!
Most people think it's below them to car pool or use public transportation(PT), where public transportation is available. I've heard several women say where I work at that they don't use PT because:
1. They can get to work faster than using PT.
2. Don't like being around other people because of the bumping or touching(duh, PT, when it's crowded that's what happens, nobody does it intentionally to p!@# you off!!!)
3. They want to be in control of what happens when they drive.
Some people just don't have a clue AND this is what makes me really laugh........they get a monthly subsidy from the government, who wouldn't take advantage of someone else paying their commuter expense!!!!
SHEEESHHH.....IF I CAN JUST FIND SOMEONE TO PAY FOR MY OTHER EXPENSES THEN I WOULD NOT HESITATE ONE BIT TO DO MY PART ON REDUCING TRAFFIC BY JUST RETIRING!!!!![:D]
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Posted By: Galah
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2007 at 9:06am
So that you can go back to complaining about how high you taxes are and how all these roads are leading to unconstrained growth and cars everywhere.
Not disagreeing, just saying that, since I dropped out of daily slugging into living 5 miles from the office andd using Public Transport, I'm meeting a whole new breed of people who are very out of touch with their neighbors reality and OMG the guys that do television traffic reporting oughta be shot. Until they start mentioning that 'normal traffic delays' mean that youre average speed is 15 mph on an interstate we'll continue to have an uninformed public!
Oh, by the way, Public Transportation IS significantly slower AND MUCH less convenient than driving, just thought you should know, and Metro seems to think that's OK.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2007 at 9:00am
Thanks for the heads-up Galah, but anyone who has taken METRO or MetroBus from their farthest suburban reaches into the city knows this all too well!
And BTW, my commute from Springfield (only about 15 miles from my office as the crow flies) takes a stuffy 1 to 1-1/2 hours each way on METRO and costs $11.45 per day ($229.00 per month). Terrible, but a veritable speedy bargain compared to the proposed high HOT costs and HOT traffic management screw-up potential! And even worse compared to my slug commute; park my car and ride in for free in about 45 min. - 1 hour. Fewer cars on the road, less fossil fuel consumption, better for my pocketbook, better for the environment, and I get to make new friends everyday.
Is anyone thinking about the negative effects HOT lanes will have on the ecological aspects of the environment here in NOVA? Let's talk about adding thousands of SOV luxo-tanks to the commute each day. The affluent commuter who can afford HOT tolls and ride SOV will also be driving gas-guzzling luxury cars that not only add to the net number of vehicles on the road (by driving SOV and kicking carpool riders out and back into their own vehicles in the regular lanes), but will also increase overall congestion, fuel consumption, and pollution for all to enjoy!
Think of it this way: each SOV HOT commuter adds at least 3 vehicles to the road (the SOV + the former HOV riders) along with all the associated congestion, pollution, fuel consumption and personal expenses. This is similar to the hybrid HOV exemption effect that we are currently seeing. Each SOV on the HOV lanes adds a multiple of 3 additional vehicles to the road, along with all the bad stuff that comes with increased traffic.
Has anyone considered the negative financial impact of HOT lanes? Money spent on tolls is money that I cannot spend on other things that I need in life. Toll revenues collected leave the NOVA area (and the country). They are dollars taken out of local consumer pockets that were formerly spent on local products and services. This consideration evens out the "commuter affluence" factor as ANY discretionary consumer spending ability that is removed from a local economy has a negative affect on area businesses.
Toll roads are bad for NOVA!
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2007 at 12:00pm
Actually, the environmental problem is much worse. Under HOT proposal, there is no real incentive for more car pools to be formed than currently - after all, as you point out, the commute is faster today with HOV3. What really is happining is that hybrids will be replaced by non-hybrids in the express lanes; who would pay an extra $5K for the hybrid AND have to pay a toll?
But the express lanes are still relatively uncongested on I395. It is a rare day that I go less than the posted speed limit during most hours of operation, and it is also a rare day that the regular lanes average anywhere close to the posted speed limit over the same hours.
So, how does HOT improve the environment? Not a bit.
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Posted By: Galah
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2007 at 8:09am
I believe that the HOT theory is that by making it SO much more expensive to commute, public transportation will seem like a good deal and people will use the alternatives, after all it's a technique that we use with cigarette's! See how effective it is? (I am being sarcastic). The trouble is we are trying to encourage people to use an alternative form of transportation where and alternative form of transportation does not exist. Face it! Pay your taxes and build the roads!
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2007 at 9:04am
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Just think how much better traffic and the would be in the main lanes, not to mention the environmental benefits, if NoSUV and his SOV smugs would get two main lane drivers to ride with them in HOV. Perhaps, then their smugness would be justified?
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2007 at 12:13pm
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MDC - I'm not sure you thought that out very well. Are you implying that there is a market for regular lane drivers to form carpools? If that is the case, what is your rationale for why it has not yet occured?
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Posted By: Hooch
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2007 at 1:26pm
I can answer that, they're lazy and they get a free ride, albeit slow, on 95 every day. Would someone willingly put themselves through that 2 hour SOV commute in the regular lanes every day if it cost them a few bucks? I don't think it would take long before they figured out a way to get a couple more bodies in their car so they could ride in the HOV lanes.
Keep HOV free and charge tolls for SOV's during rush hour and people will start carpooling and using mass transit. The only way to force change is to hit them where it hurts, in their wallet.
Hooch
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 26 Apr 2007 at 4:27pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]MDC - I'm not sure you thought that out very well. Are you implying that there is a market for regular lane drivers to form carpools? If that is the case, what is your rationale for why it has not yet occured?
It's your job to figure out how to get people out of their cars and into your empty seats. I thought you cared about the environment?
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Posted By: CallmeMrSlug
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2007 at 10:08am
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On a less combative note, I wonder about the wisdom of suggesting we all individually contact our representatives versus organizing a massive petition that can be signed by as many dirvers and slugs as possible between now and the next regional transportation meeting. It would seem that a petition signed by several thousand or more of us opposed to the HOT lanes would be more effective that individual letters to representatives.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2007 at 10:18am
quote:
Originally posted by Hooch
[br]
Keep HOV free and charge tolls for SOV's during rush hour and people will start carpooling and using mass transit. The only way to force change is to hit them where it hurts, in their wallet.
Hooch
Hooch - one more step and you'll finally be there! Toll EVERYONE - that will "force change" and get more people to use mass transit. Of course, if you want to save the environment at the same time, you exempt hybrids from the toll. That way, both commuting AND non commuting miles by those drivers are more environmentally favorable than current smog producers.
Can you take that extra step, or are you stuck on stupid?
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Posted By: CallmeMrSlug
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2007 at 11:04am
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and once again, another topic is hijacked by NoSUV and pollutes itself into personal attacks...sigh
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Posted By: Hooch
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2007 at 11:29am
Sorry, I'm not going to join Greenpeace yet. Until the government of this country enacts tougher emissions standards for not only the auto industry, but our factories, I'm not going to piss away $5-10K extra on a vehicle just so I can ride solo in HOV and claim I'm saving the planet. I don't drive now. I ride the bus and/or slug. My car is putting out far less emissions than your SOV hybrid is each day, it's in the garage at home next to all of my recycling products. When the sign over the highway reads "ECO friendly vehicles only" and alternative fuel vehicles are both easily available and affordable, I'll get in line to buy one. Right now, the hybrid industry is exploiting people who are "stuck on stupid" by selling their products at a grossly inflated price under a false pretense that you can ride to work solo and it's saving the planet.
Hooch
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Posted By: Jody
Date Posted: 30 Apr 2007 at 3:16pm
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This is in response to NoSUV's post of 4-26 to MDC. If management of shopping centers or apartment complexes would set aside parking spaces where riders could park their cars to meet drivers for the Seminary Road or Edsall Road HOV ramps, then maybe some of those poor souls who live inside the Beltway would be willing to pick up riders instead of suffering on the regular lanes. The first evening drop off point for riders heading southbound is in Springfield. Hardly an incentive for the drivers inside the beltway to drive out of their way to pick up or drop off riders to save time on their commute. So yes, if there was some type of incentive to get more drivers to use the HOV lanes by picking up riders, there has to be pick up/drop off point.
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Posted By: bnvus
Date Posted: 01 May 2007 at 10:54am
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Oh no...no more exemptions. It is time for the free ride to end for Hybrid owners. I doubt the populace will stomach another exemption for you SOV drivers. HOT lanes or not.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 02 May 2007 at 11:57am
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bnvus - actually, based on this topic string, it's really time for the HOV3 exemption to end. I doubt the populance with stomach slugs riding for free when everyone else IN THE WORLD is paying their fare/fair share. The only exemption that makes sense in the long run is for hybrids, so people are, as Hooch puts it, required because the sign over the lanes says "ECO friendly vehicles only".
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 02 May 2007 at 2:04pm
WHO can afford to PAY to get to work EACH way 5 DAYS a week? Next you'll think its a good idea to charge per person not just per car.
ARRRGGHHHH!!!!
Slug'n till 2010 (when the HOT lanes roll in)
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Posted By: Jody
Date Posted: 03 May 2007 at 11:04am
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Once again, NOSUV proves his grip on reality is questionable. Ending HOV3 will not force riders onto mass transit.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 07 May 2007 at 10:26am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]bnvus - actually, based on this topic string, it's really time for the HOV3 exemption to end. I doubt the populance with stomach slugs riding for free when everyone else IN THE WORLD is paying their fare/fair share. The only exemption that makes sense in the long run is for hybrids, so people are, as Hooch puts it, required because the sign over the lanes says "ECO friendly vehicles only".
You assume that hybrids are "ECO friendly." I'm confused; I thought hybrids ran on gasoline powered engines and mercury-filled batteries that store power generated by their gasoline engines. Hmmmm, that doesn't sound very "ECO friendly." I might agree with an "ECO friendly" exemption that included cars that use renewable and/or non-polluting fuels. Now that woud be real progress; laws that promote positive changes instead of special interests.
HOT laws (and any law, for that matter) should do the greatest good for that majority. Any law that favors special interests over the best interests of the populace is flawed! Politicians have ethical responsibilities to do what is best for the many. Hybrid exemptions and HOT lane restrictions take rights and priviledges away from the general population. This is wrong! Just because it suits you, does not mean that it is in the best interest of the majority.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 14 May 2007 at 11:23am
quote:
Originally posted by Jody
[br]Once again, NOSUV proves his grip on reality is questionable. Ending HOV3 will not force riders onto mass transit.
Jody,
My response, which was deleted 3x, detailed that you are mistaken. History has proven WITH THESE LANES that without HOV-3, mass transit use increased. Check out the history of Shirley Highway and how the express lanes were originally mass transit only, and how over 8K cars per day were removed from the regular lanes back in the early 70's.
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Posted By: Jody
Date Posted: 14 May 2007 at 1:51pm
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NoSuv - I did check out the history of the HOV lanes and I'm not mistaken. Based on the type of car you drive, your advocating the removal of HOV3 is not only transparent to me, but to all of the other people on this message board.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 14 May 2007 at 2:39pm
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Jody - so, you agree with me! It has been proven that the history of the I95/I395 EXPRESS (not HOV) Lanes demonstrated that, without a carpool incentive, people were willing to use mass transit instead of driving. Whew!
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 14 May 2007 at 7:36pm
NoSUV,
Until you're using mass transit instead of driving solo, I suggest you stop posting this crap. These people are doing much more than you to alleviate traffic. Well, compared to nothing, it's much more than much more.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 15 May 2007 at 2:14pm
MDC - At times, I do use mass transit. Do you?
And, it's not crap - it's history. I guess you feel sorry you can't rewrite it, though. Get over it.
----
And STILL waiting for scottt to put up or shut up
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 16 May 2007 at 2:23pm
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I ride share every day, not just "At times".
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 17 May 2007 at 10:33am
Wow! More censorship!!! My post to MDC disappeared...
MDC: have you confused "ride share" with mass transit?
You questioned my use of mass transit on 5/14, and then you tried to deflect the issue. As I posted in the Censorship topic, if you don't like facts, try to befuddle the issue.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 17 May 2007 at 4:18pm
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You are the one filled with FUD in this discussion. I said that I'm doing something to reduce congestion on a daily basis, then you reply that you ride the mass transit once in a while. Somehow that's proof that you're doing more than I? Your last post to me was just assinine, which is probably why it was deleted.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 8:32am
I see how this works. MDC assigns himself as a moderator so he can censor what is written on the board - especially when the post shows that he has not read the string and has missed the point entirely.
Can't stand the heat?
Once again, the mid-May posts were discussions about mass transit. MDC jumped in and said (5/14) that unless I took mass transit, I had no standing. I responded that I have, and MDC then said he ride shares.
The question stands: Do you, MDC, think carpooling and mass transit are the same thing? Or will you censor this post, too?
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 12:02pm
You're getting really stupid now. I said that if you're doing nothing to reduce congestion on a daily basis, which I am, then you do not have standing with your ridiculous suggestions. Such as, people who carpool must give that up and ride busses so that you can maintain your special SOV privledge. I'm sure that if we took the time to look through your 760+ postings, there would be a few that were reasoned debate. The rest are you trolling.
By the way, I am a moderator.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 3:14pm
quote:
Originally posted by MDC
[br]
By the way, I am a moderator.
Actually - you are a censor. Big difference.
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 3:28pm
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Stay on topic, and you won't have any problems. Continue to spam/troll and expect that to be stopped.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 4:02pm
quote:
Originally posted by MDC
[br]NoSUV,
Until you're using mass transit instead of driving solo, I suggest you stop posting this crap. These people are doing much more than you to alleviate traffic. Well, compared to nothing, it's much more than much more.
MDC,
Didn't you write this? Don't you say "until you are using mass transit...stop posting"? Haven't my responses been geared to that?
Why are you censoring that? Do you consider car pooling, which is what you do, to be equivalent to mass transit, which is what Jody and I were discussing?
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 21 May 2007 at 9:16pm
Why would you leave out the "instead of driving solo" portion of the quote you posted when responding? It's because if you were responding to that, you would have no point.
More trolling?
I wouldn't be surprised if I've taken far more mass transit than you. I just am not doing it on a regular basis (nor are you), and am not pretending to claim it as significant.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 23 May 2007 at 10:54am
Ok, haven't been here in awhile. Some changes I see.
I can unequivocally state that IF there is censorship by the newly designated moderators, then this site has taken a distinctive turn for the worse.
The moderators' sole duty as I understand their new express permissions are to reduce the spam. Those engaged in dialogue, no matter the quality or lack of quality of that dialogue, should be permitted to have their posts remain.
If there are moderators doing otherwise, then those moderators should be moderated if not removed from their new duties.
((I fully expect this post could disappear as it may ruffle some mods' feathers, but that is one certain way to get folks to leave the site to who? I guess to only the mods since those "without the power" to mod will eventually leave the site...THEN what purpose will the site serve?))
not-so-respectfully-submitted (note: this is one of my more livid posts if you care to go back and read the others in contrast) Absolute power corrupts.....absolutely!
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 23 May 2007 at 12:02pm
Spam is spam. Does it really matter who posts it?
For what it's worth. No serious content has been deleted, just a personal attack. Even the "Censorship" thread is still here.
Don't go overboard with your assumptions.
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Posted By: go2grl
Date Posted: 23 May 2007 at 12:59pm
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I agree with N or S. When I was asked to moderate, it was to get rid of the influx of spam posts that were clogging up the board, nothing more. I think you, MDC, should leave any other posts alone and stick to the original purpose. If you can't ignore NoSUV, then take it up with David and let him decide what to do.
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Posted By: N_or_S_bound
Date Posted: 23 May 2007 at 1:06pm
No assumptions. Definitely not overboard.
Just giving a new look at a new approach.
MDC, you know how long I've been here as I do you. You know whether I'm a "reasonable" person or not.
I'm giving you perspective, not assumptions.
Without attacking anyone in particular, moderators need to go to the fullest extent of offering the benefit of the doubt and not offend in the execution of their duties.
Won't take many responses/actions by an errant moderator to have folks flee this site and potentially go offer an alternative without the arrogance.
The owner of this site may want to consider what is expected of the new moderators and reemphasize that. Those who can't/don't live up to the expectations should be removed from those duties.
Thank you G2G.
NoSUV is disappointing on many levels, but he's not a moderator wielding any power at all here.
NoSb
SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Date Posted: 23 May 2007 at 1:50pm
You have all gone way off topic here. Can you all argue this subject back in the 'censorship' topic, or just get off it in general?
We were appointed moderators to delete explicit content, as well as spam in general, there shouldn't even be an argument over erasure of basic banter.
You are all being childish. I am not one to talk, as I have gotten into personal battles here on this site before, as some of you may remember. I've learned from that, I guess the rest of you haven't.
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 23 May 2007 at 3:00pm
FWIW ... I've deleted only those posts that want to sell us some sort of cell phone or pharmaceutical product, or get-rich schemes, or porn sites, etc.
Never anything with anyone's opinions, news, or items of interest on commuting, hybrids, HOT lanes, etc. And as a moderator will continue to do that to "de-spam" those types of posts from this b'board for the sluggin' community. How many Nokia P3333 housing ads do we really want to read?
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Posted By: MDC
Date Posted: 23 May 2007 at 4:35pm
I've deleted one post by a regular user. It was a single line addressed to me which said "So you're doing nothing to help" in response to me saying that I carpool every day. Despite this, I realized that I would have been better off leaving it alone one second afterwards. Especially since whatsit'sname has been whining about censorship.
FWIW I've deleted one sentence by NoSUV, two posts that were double posts by other users, corrected a typo in a URL another user posted, and removed about 500 spam posts by non-regular users since I've been a moderator.
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