Is "Will Call" appropriate???
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Topic: Is "Will Call" appropriate???
Posted By: Admin
Subject: Is "Will Call" appropriate???
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2002 at 12:15pm
There has been a lot of discussion about whether "will call" is appropriate. "Will Call" is when a driver sees a friend or family member waiting in a slug line and calls them out of line to get into the car. This means, the person at the head of the line must wait for the next car.
Is this appropriate?? What do you think?
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Replies:
Posted By: artplyn
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2002 at 12:37pm
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This has been heavily discussed in the 'Can I Reject a Rider' thread.
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Posted By: mirangus
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2002 at 1:17pm
Personally, it doesn't bother me when I see it happen. It doesn't happen often enough to pose a serious risk to the continuity of a slug line (and I use several of them). I have done it on occasion (but usually will pick up two from the front of the line, it makes my conscience feel better[:)]). Even if a driver DOES take a friend from the middle of the line and pulls just one more from the front, it would be like someone pulled up with someone already in a vehicle and would just take one anyway (like a husband and wife that commute together). I think an opinion on this matter also depends on where you are in the line. If you are in the rear of the line, you're not going to care too much. It actually hooks up people that were more to the rear of the line because they advanced two people ahead anyway. To those in front that may get upset over this, just remember that there will be another car, there always is. There are much more important things to worry about than someone "stealing your seat."
One last thought. The only thing that is consitent about any given slug line is that, on a day to day basis, it is largely INconsistent. You never know what the line will look like, or what the ratio of drivers to passengers may be that day. If I am worried about getting to work at a certain time, I will allow myself time for something to delay me in my commute or I will find a scheduled alternate form of transportation (like the VRE) for that day. If I am at the front of the slug line stressing over the fact that I'm going to be late because somebody pulled a buddy out of the line, then I need to reevaluate who's responsibility that was and to whom I should divert the blame.
I think of it this way. Someone's day was made somehow brighter because they got to ride in with a familiar face and a friendly voice. Who the heck am I to cast bad vibes down on that??
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Posted By: tbell511
Date Posted: 06 Dec 2002 at 2:20pm
This has been heavily discussed in the 'Can I Reject a Rider' please leave it alone, just agree to disagree!!!
TBell
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Posted By: Maylo
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2002 at 12:24pm
How rude!!! The Administrator is asking for input. Who are you to say leave it alone? Don't like it? Simple. Don't read the thread. Cheez.
quote:
Originally posted by tbell511
[br]This has been heavily discussed in the 'Can I Reject a Rider' please leave it alone, just agree to disagree!!!
TBell
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Posted By: shelbybrynn
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2002 at 1:06pm
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That seems to be a standard response from tbell. I agree with you though Maylo. That is what this website is all about, people voicing their opinions and passing along valuable information. If she doesn't like the content of a particular thread, don't enter in on it.
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Posted By: rale
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2002 at 1:14pm
I absolutely agree with Maylo and shelbybrynn. tbell is not much of a, shall we say, "thinking" person.
quote:
Originally posted by shelbybrynn
[br]That seems to be a standard response from tbell. I agree with you though Maylo. That is what this website is all about, people voicing their opinions and passing along valuable information. If she doesn't like the content of a particular thread, don't enter in on it.
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Posted By: artplyn
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2002 at 1:33pm
I defend everyone's right to an opinion and the right to express it (including tbell's).
As for the topic:
If a slug has the right to refuse a driver, then a driver has the right to refuse a slug (or multiple)...that automatically allows 'will call'
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Posted By: Telser
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2002 at 1:40pm
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I also agree about tbell. As to respond to the Admin. question, it bothers me alot when people call friends and relatives "out of turn," especially if the line is long and moving slowly. I'm primarily bothered because it seems to be grossly abused. We all know lots of people and this choosing out of the line seems very, very juvenile to me.
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Posted By: tbell511
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2002 at 1:40pm
It called freedom of speech and as long as I am an American I will continue to excercise that right, and If have a problem with my ability to freely excercise my right WHO CARES??? oh yeah shellybrynn who has an opinion about EVERYTHING I love you too.........
TBell
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Posted By: Telser
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2002 at 1:45pm
Just to clarify - I agree with Maylo, shelbybrynn and rale -not Artplyn. Artplyn - you miss the point in your defense of tbell.
quote:
Originally posted by Telser
[br]I also agree about tbell. As to respond to the Admin. question, it bothers me alot when people call friends and relatives "out of turn," especially if the line is long and moving slowly. I'm primarily bothered because it seems to be grossly abused. We all know lots of people and this choosing out of the line seems very, very juvenile to me.
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Posted By: artplyn
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2002 at 1:49pm
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telser, I think you miss my point. I was not defending tbell's position, just her right to express it. As Shelby stated: "That is what this website is all about, people voicing their opinions"
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Posted By: tlschau
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2002 at 1:50pm
quote:
Originally posted by artplyn
[br]I defend everyone's right to an opinion and the right to express it (including tbell's).
As for the topic:
If a slug has the right to refuse a driver, then a driver has the right to refuse a slug (or multiple)...that automatically allows 'will call'
In addition, a driver can call out a very specific destination, say a mutual workplace, that a person waiting in the slug line will know. So even if there is somehow a rule against "will call", it will be useless. As a rider I have to agree I don't like it when someone in line behind me gets in a car before me after I have been waiting for 15 minutes, but that's how it works. No rule is going to change it either.
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Posted By: Robb
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2002 at 1:51pm
Your response shows that rude is an understatement in describing you. Why don't you start your own website, and then when someone responds to you as you did to the Admin. request, let's see how you feel.
As far as freedom of speech - well here's some for youtbell - you consistently sound a like a two year old brat. If you are an adult, I find it difficult to believe.
quote:
Originally posted by tbell511
[br]It called freedom of speech and as long as I am an American I will continue to excercise that right, and If have a problem with my ability to freely excercise my right WHO CARES??? oh yeah shellybrynn who has an opinion about EVERYTHING I love you too.........
TBell
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Posted By: USA
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2002 at 1:52pm
It seems to me that common sense rules the roost with this issue, as with many others. The overall theory of HOV is that it's supposed to take cars off the road, right? OK (BTW, this is hypothetical, not based on experience), suppose you see your next-door neighbor in line at the Pentagon and you know that he normally slugs to Bob's and, en route, calls his wife to come pick him up. Are the "no will-call" folks suggesting that even in this situation, you should not pick up your neighbor? I suppose you're entitled to your opinion, but I think it's disingenuous to suggest that you shouldn't pick him up. You're potentially taking TWO cars off the road (his car for the commute, and his wife's car to pick him up). With that said, the point made by Kortegel in the other thread is also a fair point--i.e., if you do this on a daily basis with the same person, you should make an alternative arrangement, such as meeting the person at a different location within the slug lot away from the line. Kortegel also made a good point that you can't exactly be expected to reject your SPOUSE.
Ultimately, though, the one rule that you have to remember is that it's the DRIVER'S car. We all agree that the driver is free to reject a rider, just as a rider can reject a driver--for any reason (e.g., if a driver is racist and says "No blacks," that's his right). So if the "will call" option is wrong, who's to say that a driver won't just say, "OK, you, you, you, and you aren't welcome?" I know it may come back to bite him in the future when the rejected riders remember him, but isn't it a situation where it's the same thing via a different logic?
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Posted By: USA
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2002 at 1:54pm
While I agree that you can say as you like, what does "freedom of speech" have to do with a private message board? The First Amendment only applies to the government (that's one reason why your employer can prohibit you from wearing an off-color t-shirt, for example).
quote:
Originally posted by tbell511
[br]It called freedom of speech and as long as I am an American I will continue to excercise that right, and If have a problem with my ability to freely excercise my right WHO CARES??? oh yeah shellybrynn who has an opinion about EVERYTHING I love you too.........
TBell
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Posted By: shelbybrynn
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2002 at 2:54pm
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The reason I have a problem with "will call" is that it is basically cutting in line. Say you are standing in the line at The Pentagon waiting to get home and the line is extremely long and it is freezing cold outside and a friend of yours pulls up and takes you from the back of the line and NOT the next person in line. To me that's not fair to all the people who have been waiting alot longer than you have. I have friends that I occassionally ride home with and we will arrange ahead of time for a different place to meet up. That is the responsible thing to do. I know I have personally turned down riding home with one of my good friends who I hadn't seen in a long time because I was at the back of the line and I didn't feel it was fair to the others. If we want the slug system to work for both riders and drivers, common courtesy is a must. We have been taught since grade school that cutting in line is not acceptable so why would we start doing it as adults? As far as "will call" being compared to rejecting drivers/riders it doesn't compare because that practice is done out of concern for safety and/or comfort levels (i.e. reckless drivers, the B.O. lady, or no AC in 100o heat) and I feel that should only be done in special cases because after all, it is a free ride.
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Posted By: USA
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2002 at 5:16pm
I'm curious, would you challenge either the driver calling out a particular person or the person called by the driver who accepts the ride, and, if you would challenge the driver, what would your argument be? I'm just curious, as I don't go to 630.
quote:
Originally posted by shelbybrynn
[br]The reason I have a problem with "will call" is that it is basically cutting in line. Say you are standing in the line at The Pentagon waiting to get home and the line is extremely long and it is freezing cold outside and a friend of yours pulls up and takes you from the back of the line and NOT the next person in line. To me that's not fair to all the people who have been waiting alot longer than you have. I have friends that I occassionally ride home with and we will arrange ahead of time for a different place to meet up. That is the responsible thing to do. I know I have personally turned down riding home with one of my good friends who I hadn't seen in a long time because I was at the back of the line and I didn't feel it was fair to the others. If we want the slug system to work for both riders and drivers, common courtesy is a must. We have been taught since grade school that cutting in line is not acceptable so why would we start doing it as adults? As far as "will call" being compared to rejecting drivers/riders it doesn't compare because that practice is done out of concern for safety and/or comfort levels (i.e. reckless drivers, the B.O. lady, or no AC in 100o heat) and I feel that should only be done in special cases because after all, it is a free ride.
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Posted By: leblanc9425
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2002 at 8:40am
I see nothing wrong with the "will call" practice. Although I've seen it excercised plenty of times, it's actually fairly rare. What's the difference if I happen to see somebody I know in line and then: park my car temporarily, walk up and get them out of line, get back into my car, and then drive back up to the slug line and call for the third person? I guess if I did this, people would not be offended because now I'm not excersising "will call" but the effect is still the same. Nobody gets angry if a driver arrives with somebody else in the car already right? So, I guess I could go through the gyrations meantioned above so that I have a car with two riders asking for the next slug in line. It's all about perceptions. If I were a slug standing in line and my wife happened to drive by and didn't "will call" me....grrrr, I'd have something to say about it!
Of course there are limits to everything. I would not support will call if the practice was simply picking who you wanted to ride in your car from the line of people. This would amount to drivers cruising the line and picking out perhaps people they thought were attractive or the like...very bad.
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2002 at 1:38pm
This is rarely a problem. My example: If there was a dedicated line to Rosslyn, I would p/u riders there. But there's not, so I go to the Pentagon lines and ask. If someone wants to go to Rosslyn they can step out of line and ride with me, if not I'll take the next person in line to Pentagon. Usually no problem. Friends should carpool when they can. But if I see a friend in line that goes my way I'll ask others in front if they mind. Usually no problem. Remember: Driver owns the car - Driver sets the destination. What's the issue?
Bottom line: Riders ride for free, drivers get to use HOV, what a great deal for both! Let's not forget that.
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Posted By: gg
Date Posted: 10 Dec 2002 at 1:59pm
leblanc,
Obviously, if everyone were principled or ethical in their choices, this would not be an issue. I'd like to believe that most people are fair. Like others, I've passed on friends and co-workers that drove up to the slug-line. Some people might think that was foolish, but to uphold the principle of slugging, I passed, not to sound altruistic but to not feel guilty. I've never been in the situation where my spouse drove up. I suppose if it did happen, it would be difficult to pass, but knowing the principles involved I'd pass and meet her at the destination point. Not much lost, but what if the stakes were higher, that is, what if it was a quarter to 6 PM and my wife left with the first slugs in line, but left me behind. I'd be upset if I did not get a ride back and had to wait and take the bus home. Yes, I would be ethical, no guilt, but not happy. So, what would be the right thing to do? Fortunately, this probably has never happened but in principle, it could.
gg
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Posted By: Arbo
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2002 at 4:25pm
raymond - from what I understand, the AM line at 610 is a combined line for Pentagon, Roslyn, and Crystal City. So if that is the line you're talking about, its not a "will call" at all.
Personally, I don't have a problem with "will call".
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Posted By: kortegel
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2003 at 9:26am
I think I've found a wonderful solution for a driver that wants to exercise 'will call'...if they see someone further down the line that they work with why don't they just get really specific about their destination? Instead of saying something like, "Foggy Bottom" they could say "State Department" or an exact address...who would be able to argue with that? [?]
K.O.
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Posted By: gg
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2003 at 2:22pm
Interesting idea for the morning commute, but I think everyone in line would know what the driver was up to and would possibly make people more disgruntled. How about the afternoon commute, should the driver call out the parking spot number to specify where in the parking lot is their intended destination?
In my opinion and relative to other issues, I don't think "will call" happens often and so it does not significantly impact the "system". For example, drivers lurking the parking lots for slugs happens all the time and does impact the system.
gg
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Posted By: n/a
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2003 at 2:52pm
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I travel from points in Springfield to Rosslyn and back everyday. There are no dedicated lines in either direction so I scout the Pentagon lines for people going to Rosslyn or proceeding to DC stops on the Blue line in the morning, and usually pick up slugs to Tacketts or Horner Rd in the evening (and backtrack to Springfield alone). I always ask for riders to my destination but will happily settle for the riders next in line going near my destinations when necessary. This is the best solution I have until more Springfield/Rosslyn commuters get together. Anyone else in a similar situation?
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Posted By: tondalea
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2003 at 12:43pm
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I just had to put my two cents in. Just like others, I dont think it happens enough to really be a problem. If I were driving and saw a good friend or relative standing in line, I would call them out for a ride, but I would still go to the front and make sure to take two people.
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Posted By: dkerley
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2003 at 10:12am
I think drivers have that right to pick up people that they know like friends or family instead of the person that is next in line. I certainly don't want to catch heat from my friends for leaving them in the line. I would never hear the end of it! [:0]
Dina
Dina
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