Hybrid Extension to July, 2011
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Topic: Hybrid Extension to July, 2011
Posted By: getmehome pweeze
Subject: Hybrid Extension to July, 2011
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 12:03pm
Yes, select Hybrids have once again been afforded the (IMHO) unfair right to ride SOV in the HOV.
http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2010/022010/02252010/530297
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Replies:
Posted By: mpatoka
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 1:15pm
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I'm just curious out of the 12,430 hybrids that are exempted, how many reside here in NoVA and use the HOV on a regular basis? I assume the great majority of them.
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Posted By: TWO
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 8:55pm
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This is such wonderful news. I'm so looking forward to the un-noticeable traffic load they add to the HOV lanes.
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Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 6:57am
Everybody write a letter to Bob McDonnell.
Encourage others to write as well.
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
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Posted By: mycroftt
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 9:44am
I've been opposed to the hybrid exception since it was first instituted. That having been said, I also do not think it would be a good idea to end the grandfathering of those hybrids that are currently allowed on the HOV. Looking at the big picture, putting more traffic in the over-burdened regular lanes is simply not an acceptable solution. As long as they are not allowing new hybrids or other CF vehicles on HOV they should continue grandfathering until the issue becomes moot.
Edited to add: I also believe that the grandfathered vehicles should have to pay a fee of several hundred dollars per year for the special license plate that allows them to take advantage of the exception.
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Posted By: siggy14
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 8:35am
I dont believe that is the case, these hybrid owners are so use to their fast ride that they will just start picking up passangers. I think they will start picking up slugs or slugging themselves.
I dont mind if it gets extended, however I feel it should be amended to say that the plate can not be transferred to a new vehicle and then let it slowly die out that way.
quote:
Originally posted by mycroftt
I've been opposed to the hybrid exception since it was first instituted. That having been said, I also do not think it would be a good idea to end the grandfathering of those hybrids that are currently allowed on the HOV. Looking at the big picture, putting more traffic in the over-burdened regular lanes is simply not an acceptable solution. As long as they are not allowing new hybrids or other CF vehicles on HOV they should continue grandfathering until the issue becomes moot.
Edited to add: I also believe that the grandfathered vehicles should have to pay a fee of several hundred dollars per year for the special license plate that allows them to take advantage of the exception.
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Posted By: HOVME
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 1:04pm
The HOV extension was overwhelmingly passed by both houses of the VA legislature. There is virtually no chance the governor will waste any political capital with a veto. Don't waste your time or his with a letter.
HOVME
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 2:38pm
Only in DC would there be people who advocated HOV-3 over HOV-30.
Extending the exemption has always been a no brainer. Ending it for the newer hybrids was the big mistake. If the legislature had instead phased out the HOV-3 exemption for the express lanes while continuing to allow hybrids to use the express lanes during commuting hours, we would have had:
- less congestion because slugs would be on a bus
- less pollution because not only will the commutes have less air polution, but also the hybrids would replace more polluting vehicles being used in non-commutes.
- less dependence on foreign oil (and lower gas prices) because of better mileage
- economic stimulus because of the increase in vehicle manufacture and sales
- increased transportation funding from the portion of revenue paid to use the bus
- And best of all, no taxpaer funds, unlike cash for clunkers
The downside would be that slugs lose their "entitlement" with free rides and now have to help pay for transportation improvements.
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Posted By: siggy14
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 2:50pm
Well if you want to go along those lines, maybe they should just make it bus only like originaly was. Honestly you are no better, you think because your car is more fuel effcient that it gives you the right to be a single rider.
In reality there are many regular cars that get better gas mileage then most hybrids when it comes to highway miles. If you really cared about the enviroment you would get your butt from behind the drivers wheel and take your own advice and get on a bus no matter what car you drive.
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
Only in DC would there be people who advocated HOV-3 over HOV-30.
Extending the exemption has always been a no brainer. Ending it for the newer hybrids was the big mistake. If the legislature had instead phased out the HOV-3 exemption for the express lanes while continuing to allow hybrids to use the express lanes during commuting hours, we would have had:
- less congestion because slugs would be on a bus
- less pollution because not only will the commutes have less air polution, but also the hybrids would replace more polluting vehicles being used in non-commutes.
- less dependence on foreign oil (and lower gas prices) because of better mileage
- economic stimulus because of the increase in vehicle manufacture and sales
- increased transportation funding from the portion of revenue paid to use the bus
- And best of all, no taxpaer funds, unlike cash for clunkers
The downside would be that slugs lose their "entitlement" with free rides and now have to help pay for transportation improvements.
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Posted By: RetiredMarine
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 9:13am
NoSuv you are incorrect about many of your points. Having 1000 Hybrids on the road traveling at highway speed doesn't lessen our dependence on foreign oil. Plus if we were to remove the hybrids there would be less congestion. HOV doesn't stand for Hybird it stands for high-occupancy vehicle. Yes you are correct removing all cars and only allowing bus would be a fix, but this really only helps the bus companies get richer.
The best way to correct HOV is to remove hybirds and change the hours. The change of the hours has worked in other cities.
-0500 to 1000 North bound
-1400 to 1900 South bound
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Posted By: scottt
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 4:41pm
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Amen to RetiredMarine's comments
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Posted By: Flyby
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 8:38pm
I seem to remember that the original statute specifically stated that when an older hybrid with exempt tags was traded in the tags COULD NOT BE TRANSFERRED TO THE NEW HYBRID. But look around everyone - undoubtedly that's what's been going on for the last few years. Is anyone in DMV policing this. I can just see it - hybrid owner goes into the dealer to buy the newer hybrid and - wink wink, nod nod - the dealer puts his old exempt tags on the new hybrid - even if the emissions figures on the newer hybrid don't qualify for the clean fuel tag.
Anyone have any idea who we need to speak to in Richmond about this? I tried with Dave Albo last year but he blew me off - had better things to do, I'm sure.
Flyby
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Posted By: sluDgE
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 9:08pm
Flyby, For your info:
From the Virginia DMV website (http://www.dmv.state.va.us/webdoc/citizen/vehicles/cleanspecialfuel.asp):
"Vehicle owners who have vehicles registered with the white clean special fuel license plate, issued prior to July 1, 2006, may renew or transfer their plates to a newly purchased qualifying vehicle. Vehicles bearing this plate are exempt from occupancy requirements in all Virginia HOV lanes until the general exemption expires on July 1, 2010." (now 2011?)
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Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2010 at 4:48am
Then the only solution is to go around and remove, mutilate, vandalize, or otherwise render illegible the original white Hybrid tags.
No longer in production, the owner will have to go to the DMV and get new blue tags.
Kidding of course. I don't advocate malicious activity... I think I can make exception to NoSUV though.
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
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Posted By: Flyby
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2010 at 7:36am
Thank you sluDgE for the (unfortunate) enlightenment.
Flyby
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2010 at 11:10am
quote:
Originally posted by RetiredMarine
NoSuv you are incorrect about many of your points. Having 1000 Hybrids on the road traveling at highway speed doesn't lessen our dependence on foreign oil. Plus if we were to remove the hybrids there would be less congestion. HOV doesn't stand for Hybird it stands for high-occupancy vehicle. Yes you are correct removing all cars and only allowing bus would be a fix, but this really only helps the bus companies get richer.
The best way to correct HOV is to remove hybirds and change the hours. The change of the hours has worked in other cities.
-0500 to 1000 North bound
-1400 to 1900 South bound
RetiredMarine: Perhaps YOU should check YOUR facts. A local county recently replaced about half of its fleet with hybrids. The result was that even though the hybrids had more mileage over a year, the fuel costs were 1/3. Remember, there is a difference between travelling at highway speeds and always having your accelerator floored. When a cnventional vehicle coasts, gas is still consumed. With a hybrid, not only does the battery boost the electric drive motor during normal operations, but the drave battery goes on complete charge when you back off of the accelerator.
Removing hybrids from the express lanes does nothing to ease the congestion in the regular lanes - it increases it and therefore the overall congestion; shifting slugs from HOV-3 to HOV-30 does ease the total number of vehicles. Even a marine can do that math.
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Posted By: RetiredMarine
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2010 at 12:21pm
Yes HOV 30 does ease the HOV problem agree 100%. You should also admit that HOV 3 is better than hybrid with one or I would have to question your math skills nosuv. But the fact HOV 30 really only helps the bus companies get richer.
Your fact about the hybrids is still incorrect, you are basing your facts on city travel, the HOV wasn't designed for stop and go traffic. The fact of the matter was really only three or four hybrids on the road today work the way you describe. Honda Civic, Honda Insight, Toyota Prius and maybe one more. The other hybrids getting the benefit of the lanes don't get the milage nor do they work in the same manner.
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Posted By: mycroftt
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2010 at 8:44am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
Only in DC would there be people who advocated HOV-3 over HOV-30.
Yes. It is nearly as ridiculous as advocating HOV-1 over HOV-3.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2010 at 9:18am
quote:
Originally posted by mycroftt
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
Only in DC would there be people who advocated HOV-3 over HOV-30.
Yes. It is nearly as ridiculous as advocating HOV-1 over HOV-3.
mycroftt, perhaps you could use a math lesson from RetiredMarine
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Posted By: mycroftt
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2010 at 7:52am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
quote:
Originally posted by mycroftt
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
Only in DC would there be people who advocated HOV-3 over HOV-30.
Yes. It is nearly as ridiculous as advocating HOV-1 over HOV-3.
mycroftt, perhaps you could use a math lesson from RetiredMarine
Hey - I don't need a math lesson. I'm so bright my mother called me "sun." [:o)]
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Posted By: RetiredMarine
Date Posted: 08 Mar 2010 at 2:10pm
HOV-3 is the best for everyone who uses the HOV lanes. The only one who really needed a math lesson was NoSuv. As you think changing the lanes to Hybrids and busses fixes a problem our elected officials created by allowing hybrids on the lanes in the first place.
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 10 Mar 2010 at 6:55pm
quote:
Originally posted by RetiredMarine
HOV-3 is the best for everyone who uses the HOV lanes. The only one who really needed a math lesson was NoSuv. As you think changing the lanes to Hybrids and busses fixes a problem our elected officials created by allowing hybrids on the lanes in the first place.
Hmm, are you now saying that HOV-3 is BETTER THAN HOV-30? That more people are moved per vehicle that way? That it's better for the environment?
Which is better, a SOV hybrid or a SOV conventional vehicle? After all, recent statistic as reported in the Post say that at least 60% of miles put on a vehicle are non commuting miles. Hybrids use less fuel and pollute less than COMPARABLE conventional vehicles - both during the commute and all of the rest of the miles. HOV conventional is for only 40% of the miles - with the remaining 60% being NOT HOV-3. Since the average hybrid pollutes 20% that of a conventional vehicle 100% of the time, you really don't have to be a math wizard to figure out quickly that the best possible solution is HOV-30 + hybrid only use of the express lanes during commuting periods.
Even a marine can do the math.
Only in the DC region would people advocate HOV-3 over HOV-30.
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Posted By: RetiredMarine
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2010 at 11:12am
WOW
I guess you really do need it spelled out for you nosuv. HOV-3 stands for high-occupancy vehicle with three or more riding in the vehicle. VA screwed this up and allowed hybrids to use the HOV lanes. The H doesn't stand for hybrid.
Now if they were to screw up the lanes and change them to HOV-30 yes that would please those already on busses and the bus companies. It doesn’t help 60 % of the commuters, since you enjoy math. Why don’t you get a true count of the amount of commuters who feel your way would be best? I know my vote would be NO way to allow hybrids not unless they have three or more passengers. When the lanes were first created it was to reduce the traffic, not for gas.
Please have a little respect for my fellow Marines and don’t make the m a lower case letter. Thanks you.
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Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2010 at 12:10pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
Which is better, a SOV hybrid or a SOV conventional vehicle? After all, recent statistic as reported in the Post say that at least 60% of miles put on a vehicle are non commuting miles.
Who cares what the survey says... Common logic would indicate that during HOV times, the majority of cars in the HOV lanes ARE pulling commuting miles...
And you're asking the wrong question... It's not which is better an SOV hybrid or conventional... The proper question is , "Which is better, a SOV hybrid or a HOV3 conventional vehicle?" Perhaps a better alternative would be a HOV3 hybrid.
quote:
Even a marine can do the math.
Only in the DC region would people advocate HOV-3 over HOV-30.
RetiredMarine: You consider the lower case 'm' to be disrespectful? I'd think the sarcastic notion that a Marine can't do arithmetic to be a little more insulting.
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
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Posted By: RetiredMarine
Date Posted: 11 Mar 2010 at 2:26pm
No never questioned my math skills. Accounting jobs never question those either. I like NoSuv to feel he understands math so he doesn't get upset and cry.
quote:
Even a marine can do the math.
Only in the DC region would people advocate HOV-3 over HOV-30.
RetiredMarine: You consider the lower case 'm' to be disrespectful? I'd think the sarcastic notion that a Marine can't do arithmetic to be a little more insulting.
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
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Posted By: HOVME
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2010 at 11:53am
And Dr. Gridlock of the Washington Post sees it going on indefinitely. See below:
Hybrids stay in HOV lanes
They never listen to me.
Virginia legislators and the governor have once again extended the provision that allows hybrid vehicles, even with solo drivers, to use the carpool lanes in Northern Virginia. It is now set to expire July 1, 2011. (They'll extend it again next year.)
This supposedly temporary measure dates back to the days when governments wanted to encourage the purchase of hybrid vehicles. If people bought the more efficient cars, they could get a faster trip to and from work by using the HOV lanes.
But the need for an incentive to buy hybrids disappeared long ago, along with low gas prices. The pollution coming from three hybrids with solo drivers in the HOV-3 lanes of I-95 can top that of one SUV carrying three people. Plus, the unrestricted use of hybrids contributes to congestion in the HOV lanes and decreases the incentive to carpool.
Del. Thomas A. "Tag" Greason (R-Loudoun) sponsored the one-year extension approved by the General Assembly and signed by Gov. Robert F. McDonnell (R).
The rules
Hybrid vehicles with the required clean-fuel license plates can continue to use the I-95/395, I-66 and Dulles Toll Road HOV through June 30, 2011.
Only hybrids with clean-fuel plates issued before July 1, 2006, can use the I-95/395 HOV lanes during rush hours. All hybrids with clean-fuel plates can use all other HOV lanes in Virginia during HOV hours, including I-66 and the Dulles Toll Road.
For a hybrid to use Virginia's HOV lanes during rush hours, the vehicle must have a clean special-fuel plate issued by the Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles. Not all hybrids qualify for clean-fuel plates. Check the DMV Web site for an updated list of eligible hybrids.
By Robert Thomson | March 18, 2010; 11:28 AM ET
HOVME
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Posted By: scottt
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2010 at 9:32am
Thanks for posting the above in so many threads......
I love reading something over and over.
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Posted By: HOVME
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2010 at 3:11pm
You are most welcome. Just like you, I thought wonderful news should be shared as much as possible. We get so little of it, but I know everyone here is overjoyed just like Dr. Gridlock, who thinks it will go on forever.
HOVME
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Posted By: siggy14
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2010 at 10:11am
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It really makes you wonder how many of these delegates drive Hybrids and are reaping the benafits from keeping it open to hybrids.
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Posted By: HOVME
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2011 at 8:21pm
Bills now introduced in VA house and senate to extend hybrids on HOV through 6/30/12.
HOVME
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Posted By: bnvus
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 1:29pm
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It'll die (HOV Exemption) once HOT lanes start bringing in money.
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Posted By: Suzan101
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2011 at 6:11pm
In May of 2010 I purchased a hybrid vehicle. Many of my friends asked me why since I would not have been eligible for the plates to allow me on HOV, my response better gas mileage. Well after driving on HOV with 2 slugs I am always angered to see the SOV. Yes my gas mileage, at avg 35MPG, is better than the Jeep I previously drove but I don't feel it's that much better than non-hybrid to allow for single occupancy. Going at the standard speed on HOV of 65MPH you are not running on the battery power of the vehicle but the gas power of the vehicle, especially with all the hills on 95/395. I've written to many of the politicians and always seem to get the same boiler plate response.
I would love to see the extension revoked and also love to see the times on HOV extended. If anyone knows of something else we should be doing other than writing letters which seem to be ignored please let us know!
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Posted By: Bodybykids
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2011 at 2:23pm
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NoSUV......HOV-30 wouldn't work all that great. Look at all the buses in HOV that are no where near 30 people. I ride a bus that very often hits the HOV in the morning with about 5 or less people on it. Not very efficient: gas or cost-wise. I rode in one morning....just me and the bus driver.......
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Posted By: Flyby
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2011 at 6:49am
And why does the DMV ignore the fact that a hybrid owner who currently has a clean fuel tag (emblem on left) and therefore gets to use our HOV lanes with just one selfish person in the car can go and buy another brand new hybrid and just transfer their clean fuel tags onto their new vehicle. I thought the whole idea of the new tag with the clean fuel emblem on the right, not allowing the user to drive with just one, was to weed out these hypocrites through attrition. What gives? Does that also mean they can trade in their hybrid and put their old tags on a new hybrid that doesn't qualify for the exemption?
Flyby
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Posted By: RetiredMarine
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2011 at 9:23am
A note from Mark Cole
Thank you for sharing your concerns about HOV lanes. I agree with you regarding the use of the lanes by hybrids; the exemption needs to be phased out. Unfortunately, I am one of the few in the General Assembly that feel that way. The extension of the HOV exemption for hybrids just passed the House by a 90 to 8 vote.
Thanks,
Mark L. Cole
Delegate, 88th District
Stafford, Spotsylvania, and Fauquier Counties
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Posted By: NoSUV
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2011 at 4:44pm
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Wow - nearly 90% voted for the extension!!! Does that mean that those who oppose the extension are a very tiny minority? That the mainstream thinks it's a good idea?
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Posted By: jadams08
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2011 at 6:50am
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
Wow - nearly 90% voted for the extension!!! Does that mean that those who oppose the extension are a very tiny minority? That the mainstream thinks it's a good idea?
But my question is why do they think its a good idea? What is their reasoning?
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Posted By: bnvus
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2011 at 10:26am
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I know what is their problem? Over half of them couldn't care less because it doesn't affect them; they don't live up here. Now with HOT lanes being fast tracked you would think the state/contractor would push to dismiss the extension in order to increase revenue. Afterall they won't be getting any money from the slug community and their drivers.
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Posted By: RetiredMarine
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2011 at 2:09pm
quote:
Originally posted by jadams08
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
Wow - nearly 90% voted for the extension!!! Does that mean that those who oppose the extension are a very tiny minority? That the mainstream thinks it's a good idea?
But my question is why do they think its a good idea? What is their reasoning?
My advice is to write your Rep in Richmond. They all need to hear how we feel.
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Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 1:25pm
quote:
Originally posted by RetiredMarine
quote:
Originally posted by jadams08
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
Wow - nearly 90% voted for the extension!!! Does that mean that those who oppose the extension are a very tiny minority? That the mainstream thinks it's a good idea?
But my question is why do they think its a good idea? What is their reasoning?
My advice is to write your Rep in Richmond. They all need to hear how we feel.
Your letter will be filed in the circular drawer, right next to the desk on the floor.
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
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Posted By: RetiredMarine
Date Posted: 08 Feb 2011 at 3:41pm
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Pele you also feel the Hybrids should be allowed to remain? I would think you would understand the value added by removing the exemption. Less traffic the reason the lanes were made in the first place.
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Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2011 at 11:39am
quote:
Originally posted by RetiredMarine
Pele you also feel the Hybrids should be allowed to remain? I would think you would understand the value added by removing the exemption. Less traffic the reason the lanes were made in the first place.
No, I don't think hybrids should remain. Regardless of my opinion on how helpful they are to the environment (That's for another thread.) the purpose of the HOV lanes is not environmental in nature, but it's for reducing traffic. A Prius takes up the same roadway real estate as a Corolla; Therefore they should have the same restriction.
But I think your representative in Richmond isn't even going to read the letter. Their secretary or intern is going to read it and them promptly drop the letter in the trash.
I have little faith in politicians listening to their constituents and do not believe they are looking out for anyone's interests but their own.
To send a letter to a politician is a waste of paper and a stamp.
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
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Posted By: RetiredMarine
Date Posted: 09 Feb 2011 at 12:03pm
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That is why I use email to write them. So far three of them have replied. one called.. I also have lost faith in our elected officials as well.
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