Kids in the slug line at 234
Printed From: Slug-Lines.com
Category: General Slugging Questions and Comments
Forum Name: General Slugging Topics
Forum Description: This is the area for all general slugging comments. To add a comment simply create a new topic or see FAQ for detailed information on how to post comments.
URL: http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5341
Printed Date: 17 May 2024 at 11:51pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Kids in the slug line at 234
Posted By: Leanansidhe
Subject: Kids in the slug line at 234
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2011 at 12:48pm
For at least the past week, there have been several children using the Pentagon slug line at the 234 lot...two middle/high school aged girls, a high school aged boy, and an elementary school aged girl. They walk up from 234 around 0530; seems they're going to school out of the county (one was wearing her school shirt the other day) and using the slug line to get there. They don't always end up in the same car (the first day I saw them, the older ones left the youngest by herself in line).
Does this bother anyone else? On days I drive I normally pick up from a different lot so it's not an issue, but there's no chance I'd let minors- particularly the youngest one, who MIGHT be 10- in my car. I called the non-emergency police number and they took a report, but seemed at a loss as to who to report it to or whether it was something they needed to look into at all.
What say you, fellow sluggers? Are drivers to become babysitters on top of being chauffeurs? Are you concerned about liability? Should we just stand by and let our limited ride spaces be taken up by kids who are 'too good' to take the bus?
|
Replies:
Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2011 at 1:28pm
Dude... That's creepy as ****.
My wife's going to have our kid in a few months and I'm considering additional firearms to keep around should anyone get near them... Let alone WILLINGLY allowing them to get into a stranger's car.
On top of the child endangerment, isn't allowing your children to attend school outside of their district fraud of some type.
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
|
Posted By: Leanansidhe
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2011 at 4:14pm
quote:
Originally posted by Pele
On top of the child endangerment, isn't allowing your children to attend school outside of their district fraud of some type.
Yes, it is, if the primary physical custodian has them more than 51% of the time. A lot of divorced/separated parents think it's ok to go out of district if one parent has a 1-bedroom apartment in town and joint legal custody, but it's not. And considering the kids are walking up 234 at 0530, chances are slim they have a 50/50 physical custody split with someone who lives in Fairfax County.
Glad I'm not the only one thinking WTF.
|
Posted By: ETC
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 5:46am
|
Maybe the police should be notified? Or Social Services?
|
Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 8:22am
According to Child Protective Services, there can be no report generated until the identity of the children are known, which is obviously impossible form my vantage point of seeing this posting on this website.
According to the Prince William County website, you were correct in calling the non-emergency number. Continue to call every day you see the children there and stress the urgency that this is unsafe for the children.
Also, note the VA Child Abuse hotline number at the top of the web page:
http://www.pwcgov.org/default.aspx?topic=010009000800004661
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
|
Posted By: Leanansidhe
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 8:23am
quote:
Originally posted by ETC
Maybe the police should be notified? Or Social Services?
I did call the non-emergency number (see the end of my second paragraph), but haven't seen any follow up (no police drive by, and the kids have been there every day this week at the same time). Would social services be interested? They're clothed nicely, have high end electronics, are clean/groomed well.. I doubt it would even remotely ping the services' radar. But I'm happy to make the call if concensus is that I should and it would make a difference.
|
Posted By: ETC
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 8:41am
|
It's either that or wait until one of them turns up missing. I don't know. Maybe no one should offer them rides. I don't think I would. My first response would be "Honey, where's your parents?" My concern would be that they are traveling off a beaten path for a student -- are they coming into the city to attend one of the private schools? If so, why not Metro? I see a lot of teenagers commuting to and from the private high schools in DC, like Gonzaga.
|
Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 8:41am
quote:
Originally posted by Leanansidhe
quote:
Originally posted by ETC
Maybe the police should be notified? Or Social Services?
I did call the non-emergency number (see the end of my second paragraph), but haven't seen any follow up (no police drive by, and the kids have been there every day this week at the same time). Would social services be interested? They're clothed nicely, have high end electronics, are clean/groomed well.. I doubt it would even remotely ping the services' radar. But I'm happy to make the call if concensus is that I should and it would make a difference.
You think that Child Protective Services only responds to starving kids or kids that are shivering in tattered clothes and no jackets in the cold?
Child Protective Services can be called to plenty of affluent households whom leave their 10 yr old home alone longer than an hour and a half.
The more people who directly witnesses this and call, the more likely it is that something will be done.
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
|
Posted By: bnvus
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 9:21am
|
Try contacting the local media. Shed a little light on this might stop this before something bad happens.
|
Posted By: Bodybykids
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 11:45am
|
The police have talked to these kids earlier this week. Two of the kids are 20 years old and work/go to college and the youngest is always with one of them. Who are we to say who can and cannot use the slug lines? They are a struggling displaced family and are trying to continue to get to school and work. I don't think they think they are too good to take the bus but use the slug-lines as more of a cost saving factor for them. Why would your liability increase more if its a younger person rather than an older person, I would think it would be the same. Since when is slugging proprietary - i.e. "YOUR RIDES". I have slugged with my young son on several occasions. Are they being disruptive, rude, disrespectful? Are they harming anyone?
|
Posted By: Leanansidhe
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 12:32pm
Two of them are 20- fine. What about the others? The girls that are definitely in high school/middle school, who are getting into a car together? And I assure you, the older ones are NOT always with the younger one. I watched them leave her behind last week, the second day I noticed them. Have you been out there every day? How do you know for a fact that what I directly observed isn't true?
I would love to know when the police talked to them, since I imagine and hope that would be more than a 3-4 minute conversation, and I've not only seen the kids walk up AND depart every day, but I've also not seen hide nor hair of an LEO.
Do I really have to explain the difference between you, a parent, slugging with your child, and a barely-above-the-age-of-majority adult slugging with their sibling? The biggest one is what happens if there's an accident. Siblings can't give consent for treatment. And would you want a 20 yo making those choices? And what about the high school girls riding together? Who gives consent for treatment for them in case of an accident? Are they carrying ID and emergency contact information? Who's liable in an accident? Do you think the parents will agree to not hold slug drivers responsible? Because the child can't consent to being in that car. Nor can the siblings consent to the child being in the car. It's a potential legal mess.
I have all the sympathy in the world for displaced families just struggling to get by. But I am also a mandated reporter, and this situation just borders on something that needs to be looked into, for a host of reasons. Are the schools aware of the struggles of this family? Are other agencies who can help out aware? I just don't think relying on the slug system is the answer. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems other folks aren't okay with this, so who knows?
|
Posted By: Leanansidhe
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 12:43pm
|
Forgot to add: I don't know what you would consider rude/disrespectful/disruptive. I overheard a fellow slugger making a comment to one of the girls this morning about waiting her turn in line, but I don't know what triggered it. Since plenty of adults get similar comments tossed their way, I won't go out on a limb and say the precipitating event was rude.
|
Posted By: Bodybykids
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 12:57pm
|
WOW......wouldn't most of those issues apply to anyone who slugs if the driver is involved in a car accident? Everyone who slugs puts their life in the hands of a driver they don't personally know usually. So you have only PERSONALLY seen one of them slug by themself on one occasion? What is the age requirement? You are singly these young people out just because of their age? I am not understanding why you are so vehement by something that unless you are a driver and picking them up doesn't affect you in the least.
|
Posted By: Bodybykids
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 1:03pm
|
Just reread your last post. I looked over that you are a REPORTER. Looking for a "GLORY" story......thats what it seems like to me.
|
Posted By: Leanansidhe
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 1:56pm
quote:
Originally posted by Bodybykids
Just reread your last post. I looked over that you are a REPORTER. Looking for a "GLORY" story......thats what it seems like to me.
You're apparently not reading for comprehension. I said I am a MANDATED reporter, which means that in certain circumstances I am required by law to report situations that are hazardous to vulnerable populations. Dial it down a notch, hmm?
And no, those situations are not applicable to adults. Do you have to sign a consent form to be at work? No? But did you have to sign paperwork when you enrolled your son in school? Things like consent agreements? Why is that? If you genuinely don't know, I'll tell you.
Yes, I'm concerned, and I believe I've explained why. So are several other folks. Can you say your lack of concern is more valid than our concern? What specific info do you have that mitigates our concern, and makes your opinion the more 'right'?
|
Posted By: Bodybykids
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 2:13pm
You really have issues. We really saw what your concerns where....taking a ride that you could have had!
They are minding thier business its just as simple as that.
You should try it!
|
Posted By: Leanansidhe
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 2:19pm
quote:
Originally posted by Bodybykids
You really have issues. We really saw what your concerns where....taking a ride that you could have had!
They are minding thier business its just as simple as that.
You should try it!
Are you going to address any of my questions, or continue to hurl shrill accusations? Because you're making having an actual adult dialogue difficult. If the latter, then I can feel comfortable in discounting your opinion, as you have discounted mine. If the former, then I'm more than willing to hear you out.
Do you know this family? Is that why you're so invested in us ignoring them?
|
Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 2:24pm
quote:
Originally posted by Bodybykids
WOW......wouldn't most of those issues apply to anyone who slugs if the driver is involved in a car accident? Everyone who slugs puts their life in the hands of a driver they don't personally know usually. So you have only PERSONALLY seen one of them slug by themself on one occasion? What is the age requirement? You are singly these young people out just because of their age? I am not understanding why you are so vehement by something that unless you are a driver and picking them up doesn't affect you in the least.
Lots of things get singled out by age requirements...
Drivers Licenses
Firearms
Alcohol and Tobacco
Slugging SHOULD NOT be an available transportation method for minors.
I put my kid on a school bus or a vehicle owned by a day care company, I know that the day care operator or the school bus driver has been checked out by the county government and has had a background check done to make sure that they are not a sex offender or something. I trust that their vehicle is safe, being a commercial vehicle and having the proper decals and lettering as indicated by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration and Department of Transportation.
Any random person can pick up a slug driver. Could be a felon, could be a pedophile, could have a car ready to blow up, might not even have a license.
As an adult, I make that choice and I consent to get into that vehicle. That's not something to be left up to a minor.
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
|
Posted By: Bodybykids
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 2:29pm
Is there a law against it? There are laws against speeding but you do it any way...........The adult you are riding with may not have a license, insurance, car may be stolen, etc.........
Anyway, I am done with this. Do what you want. My opinion is just that - my opinion.
|
Posted By: Leanansidhe
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 2:35pm
(nodding) Thought as much.
Pele, I did call SS, and they told me the same thing you've posted, with the additional instruction to follow up with the new info I had (the school the older girl attends) as that will help them look into the situation. Interestingly, they also told me they'd just followed up with the police after your call, and they that the police had verified that the correct procedure is to call the NEN when the kids are in line so they could swing out and talk to them. Odd thing to say if they had indeed already talked to the kids earlier in the week, that...
|
Posted By: Bodybykids
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 2:36pm
quote:
Originally posted by Leanansidhe
quote:
Originally posted by Bodybykids
You really have issues. We really saw what your concerns where....taking a ride that you could have had!
They are minding thier business its just as simple as that.
You should try it!
Are you going to address any of my questions, or continue to hurl shrill accusations? Because you're making having an actual adult dialogue difficult. If the latter, then I can feel comfortable in discounting your opinion, as you have discounted mine. If the former, then I'm more than willing to hear you out.
Do you know this family? Is that why you're so invested in us ignoring them?
This is a forum and I am voicing what I have to say. You can do and say what you want just as I can. I could care less whether you discount my opinion. Just because you post something here doesn't mean everyone has to agree. Do you know this family? How do we know the information you are posting is accurate and truthful.
|
Posted By: Leanansidhe
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 3:29pm
quote:
Originally posted by Bodybykids
This is a forum and I am voicing what I have to say. You can do and say what you want just as I can. I could care less whether you discount my opinion. Just because you post something here doesn't mean everyone has to agree. Do you know this family? How do we know the information you are posting is accurate and truthful.
I DON'T know this family- hence the concern. If you have first hand information about the family- that if they're struggling so much they're aware of/receiving assistance from appropriate programs, that the schools are aware these kids are up at 0500 just to get to school on time, that they are carrying emergency contact info, that actual adults- not siblings-are aware that they are getting into strangers' cars every day- then share that! It would go a long way toward us feeling better about the situation. If not, then at least acknowledge that this family's issues go beyond needing to save money by slugging, and maybe the best thing that could happen is a concerned person calling the police.
I've called the police and SS. Given my name and number both times, and put my professional license on the line should the information I gave be inaccurate. What more proof would you like? Are you in line every day? Can you present alternate information?
And I believe you COULD care less, else you wouldn't be so wound up about this. Perhaps you should try the attitude of not being able to care less. ;)
|
Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2011 at 8:31pm
Leanansidhe: BTW, It appears as though you're a social worker or teacher. (Mandated reporter)
Thanks... I know it's a stressful occupation.
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
|
Posted By: mycroftt
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2011 at 7:56am
quote:
Originally posted by Leanansidhe
Should we just stand by and let our limited ride spaces be taken up by kids who are 'too good' to take the bus?
Nobody has an ownership of slug rides so they are not taking your rides - they are taking their own rides. First come - first served.
When I was young I hitchhiked nearly everywhere I went that was too far to walk. At first I did it because I didn't have enough money to pay for transportation. Later on I suppose it was just force of habit and a sense of the adventure of long distance hitching on the highways. Never did I consider myself "too good" to ride with the hoi polloi on public transportation, so (based solely on my own experience) I don't think that's why these young people are doing it either. My advice is to mind your own business.
|
Posted By: Atlantis.99
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2011 at 9:37am
Riders and Drivers have choices of who they ride with and who they pick up. As a driver, I choose not to take an unattended child (i.e. Under 18). The great thing about our self-regulated system is that I can do that based simply on my own discretion. In this case, I have determined that the potential liability and risk to me far outweigh the benefit to me.
Ah, but what about the moral obligation? As a parent, could I in good conscience drive off and leave a 10 year old standing in-line with no supervision and not report it to the authorities. No chance. I would call the cops/social services.
Does the situation change if this was a PRTC bus stop? what about if we were at the VRE? Does anyone know the rules of unattended minor ridership for those modes? Obviously, they are regulated and have official policies whereas the slugging system is not and does not.
The best possible scenario is that the parents are alerted and they put a stop to this themselves. I can commiserate with whatever their individual circumstances might be, but they are unfairly putting a social burden on the rest of us by allowing this to happen in the first place.
|
Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2011 at 11:09am
quote:
Originally posted by mycroftt
When I was young I hitchhiked nearly everywhere I went that was too far to walk. At first I did it because I didn't have enough money to pay for transportation. Later on I suppose it was just force of habit and a sense of the adventure of long distance hitching on the highways.
When did you last hitchhike?
Would you recommend hitchhiking today?
Is hitchhiking an acceptable method of transport for a 10 yr old?
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
|
Posted By: mycroftt
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2011 at 12:40pm
quote:
Originally posted by Pele
quote:
Originally posted by mycroftt
When I was young I hitchhiked nearly everywhere I went that was too far to walk. At first I did it because I didn't have enough money to pay for transportation. Later on I suppose it was just force of habit and a sense of the adventure of long distance hitching on the highways.
When did you last hitchhike?
Would you recommend hitchhiking today?
Is hitchhiking an acceptable method of transport for a 10 yr old?
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
I don't waste a lot of time responding to posts that take quotes out of context. Sorry.
Do you want to discuss bullying some young folks off the slug line? Then we can get into more interesting questions like "Am I so self-important and entitled that I feel the need to interfere with others' unimportant activities because they interfere with all the really important stuff that I do?"
|
Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2011 at 5:16pm
quote:
Originally posted by mycroftt
I don't waste a lot of time responding to posts that take quotes out of context. Sorry.
Do you want to discuss bullying some young folks off the slug line? Then we can get into more interesting questions like "Am I so self-important and entitled that I feel the need to interfere with others' unimportant activities because they interfere with all the really important stuff that I do?"
How was any of it out of context... You're using your experience to represent hitchhiking (Which is essentially what slugging is; an organized form of hitchhiking.) as a safe activity.
I asked you to elaborate on this and explain how, in this day and age, that you think it's a safe thing for kids to be doing... Specifically the 10 yr old.
Nobody is bullying them off of line. The discussion is regarding whether this is safe for kids to be doing.
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
|
Posted By: mycroftt
Date Posted: 21 Nov 2011 at 7:46pm
quote:
Originally posted by Pele
quote:
Originally posted by mycroftt
I don't waste a lot of time responding to posts that take quotes out of context. Sorry.
Do you want to discuss bullying some young folks off the slug line? Then we can get into more interesting questions like "Am I so self-important and entitled that I feel the need to interfere with others' unimportant activities because they interfere with all the really important stuff that I do?"
How was any of it out of context... You're using your experience to represent hitchhiking (Which is essentially what slugging is; an organized form of hitchhiking.) as a safe activity.
I asked you to elaborate on this and explain how, in this day and age, that you think it's a safe thing for kids to be doing... Specifically the 10 yr old.
Nobody is bullying them off of line. The discussion is regarding whether this is safe for kids to be doing.
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
My context was a response to the original poster's offhand remark that the young ones might consider themselves "too good" for riding the bus. I responded by pointing out that when I was of a similar age I hitchhiked a lot because I didn't have the money to ride on paid public transportation. I pointed out that it never occurred to me that I was "too good" for public transport so I even more clearly stated that, based solely on my own experience, I never thought I was "too good" so I doubted that these young folks thought they were "too good" either.
You responded to my very clear and simple statement with a deliberate misquotation where you omitted my conclusion that I doubted they thought they were "too good" and you further rejoined with a series of bizarre, irrelevant, and nonsensical questions involving my beliefs about the appropriateness of 10 year old girls hitchhiking and other issues unrelated to the young sluggers' purported belief that they were "too good" to ride the bus.
I have no problem restating my position but I really don't waste my time responding to phony "rebuttals," explicit or implied, of arguments I did not make.
It's not that big a deal. I was making a point about whether or not they really thought they were "too good" to ride the bus. I never addressed the issue of the conditions and circumstances under which I might think it appropriate, or not, for someone to hitchhike.
|
Posted By: SuTaRiCh
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 11:15am
quote:
Originally posted by Pele
On top of the child endangerment, isn't allowing your children to attend school outside of their district fraud of some type.
-------------------------
Children can attend school outside their district if they are going to private school. I ride VRE most days and used to see a bunch of high schoolers going from Fredericksburg to Alexandria, going I believe to Bishop Ireton High School. Also, I think it is accurate that kids in Virginia are allowed to go to to a different public school if it is closer to where their parent's work.
That said, I don't love the thought of kids slugging, even if they have emergency contacts and their own phones. They are simply more vulnerable. But is there magic age at which I suddenly get comfortable? There must be. A college kid riding wouldn't bother me. A Senior? A Junior? I just don't know.
|
Posted By: Pele
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 2:14pm
quote:
Originally posted by mycroftt
My context was a response to the original poster's offhand remark that the young ones might consider themselves "too good" for riding the bus. I responded by pointing out that when I was of a similar age I hitchhiked a lot because I didn't have the money to ride on paid public transportation. I pointed out that it never occurred to me that I was "too good" for public transport so I even more clearly stated that, based solely on my own experience, I never thought I was "too good" so I doubted that these young folks thought they were "too good" either.
You responded to my very clear and simple statement with a deliberate misquotation where you omitted my conclusion that I doubted they thought they were "too good" and you further rejoined with a series of bizarre, irrelevant, and nonsensical questions involving my beliefs about the appropriateness of 10 year old girls hitchhiking and other issues unrelated to the young sluggers' purported belief that they were "too good" to ride the bus.
I have no problem restating my position but I really don't waste my time responding to phony "rebuttals," explicit or implied, of arguments I did not make.
It's not that big a deal. I was making a point about whether or not they really thought they were "too good" to ride the bus. I never addressed the issue of the conditions and circumstances under which I might think it appropriate, or not, for someone to hitchhike.
Who cares if they're too good or not to ride the bus.
Egos and images are not at stake here. It's the safety of the kids that's the important matter.
-------------------------
Times to beat:
Horner Rd to/from Pentagon: 12 mins Without Slugs - 17 mins With slugs
Dale City exit to/from 3rd St Tunnel, D.C. 18 mins (No slugs - Holiday)
|
Posted By: mycroftt
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 3:29pm
quote:
Originally posted by Pele
Who cares if they're too good or not to ride the bus.
Egos and images are not at stake here. It's the safety of the kids that's the important matter.
I guess it was important to the original poster - important enough to specifically mention it, at least.
Just as I don't believe the kids think they are "too good" I also don't think there is necessarily as much risk as some others seem to believe. There doesn't seem to be a good consistent description of how old these kids really are, so they may be older and more wordly than is being portrayed. I don't know - maybe there is a problem there or maybe not. If I believed that there were 10-year olds left on the slug line by themselves I would be as concerned as anyone else. I guess I should characterize my feeling as "skeptical" rather than "unconcerned."
The hysteria about them leaving their neighborhood with their 20 year old siblings, and thus having no hope of receiving life-saving medical attention should they require it, is just nonsensical - the so-called risk of that is the same whether they are slugging or riding in a car driven by their big brother.
|
Posted By: Leanansidhe
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2011 at 9:15pm
quote:
Originally posted by SuTaRiCh
Children can attend school outside their district if they are going to private school. I ride VRE most days and used to see a bunch of high schoolers going from Fredericksburg to Alexandria, going I believe to Bishop Ireton High School. Also, I think it is accurate that kids in Virginia are allowed to go to to a different public school if it is closer to where their parent's work..
The school in question is a public school. And in Fairfax county, the 'close to parent's work' is applicable only through elementary school (it also covers day care providers).
Mycroftt: my comment about riding the bus was made before I realized this is an every day occurrence. While they could easily walk ten feet to the left and take the omni ride to the pentagon for less than $10/week, eliminating the concerns with getting into a car with a stranger, allegedly they're struggling financially and this is their best option. Thus, I retract that comment.
I worked with kids for almost ten years, and have a decent eye for ages. While I could point you to the photo on the school website that clearly puts the older girl in High school, I won't because although the school has the right to put that photo up, we don't have the right to exploit it. The middle girl carries a glittery spiderman backpack and looks 1-2 years younger. Then there's the youngest girl- at most, she's 11. Unless BodyByKids would like to pop back in and insist that one of the girls is 20 and in high school, or 20 and carrying a glittery spiderman backpack, I'm going to hazard a guess and say it's not one of them. There are two boys with them, one of whom was not with them the first two days; one of the boys may very well be 20. The other looks more in the 17-year range, but let's say he's the other 20 year old. That still leaves two underage girls getting into cars alone. And despite their insistence, there are a number of witnesses to the youngest being left alone at least once. Why don't you pop by l e morning and take a look? Or again, BodybyKids seems to have more personal insight into this; perhaps she can offer hard evidence.
Let's set everything else aside and focus on this: we allegedly have a struggling displaced family for whom things are so bad they will get three minors (at least) up and out the door by 0500 to stand in line and do something our parents always told us not to.. get into a car with a stranger. We do it every day, true, but we are adults and are able to weigh the risks and benefits, and choose accordingly. Were you slugging last month when the construction held up traffic? It took me 3 hours to get to work that day. What will the tardy slip look like for these kids? Surely they can't let anyone know they're living out of the county. Imagine not only living in such a desperate situation that you have to travel 2 hours to school every day, but living with the fear that someone might find out. What happens if the 'responsible' older siblings get sick? Do all the rest of them stay home?
Last week I was in a car where the driver forgot where he was going and ended up passing the exit we needed. It happened again tonight. We've all heard or experienced stories of drivers who suddenly decide they're dropping you off somewhere other than the agreed spot. If they do that with adults in the car, what's to stop them from doing the same with kids? And will the kids say something?
Let's look at the flip side. The state I grew up in has clear liability laws for unrelated minors riding in personal cars. It's one of the main reasons (back when I worked for the state) people transporting minors in their own cars were required to have a specific (much higher than state minimum) level of car insurance. I find it difficult to believe things have changed so much in the intervening years, or that a progressive state like this one wouldn't have similar laws. Yet I doubt any 'regular' slug driver would be carrying extra insurance for such a circumstance. So, as I mentioned earlier, it's an issue for the driver as well. Luckily the kids are only going to the pentagon- imagine the issues if they were traveling across the state line.
I stand by my belief that if this family is in such dire straits, they need help beyond slug rides. There's no shame in seeking that help, nor is there shame in being concerned about a questionable situation. (shrug) No easy answers
|
Posted By: Bodybykids
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 8:32am
OMG....give it a rest. This is a forum about "slugging" not the "Life Story of people who slug". Leanansidhe information is inaccurate to say the least. Please stop speculating about why these young people are slugging. So what, they get up early..... I slug because it is a cost effective method of getting back and forth to work. The omniride bus is approximately $7 one way without a smarttrip card, $5.35 one way with a Smarttrip card. Express Buses out of the Pentagon are $3.65, Omnilink local Bus One Way is $1.20. So a roundtrip fare is approximately $21.40 - 23.70 depending on whether they have smarttrip cards or not. 4 - 5 people and that's pretty pricey per day / week. I would opt to slug.
NO ONE has to give them a ride if they don't want to just as they don't have to get into someones car if they are uncomfortable. They seem to be getting back and forth to wherever they are going just fine. I would be concerned - VERY CONCERNED - by a 10 year old being left to slug and would immediately call the police but because NO ONE else is confirming that this actually happened, again I question the accuracy of what Leanansidhe is posting. I hope that their situation whatever it may be improves and things get easier for them. I wish them all the best and I support their efforts to continue to get to school/work or wherever they are headed.
SLUGGING is supposedly one of the safest ways to move about and has been relatively incident free.
|
Posted By: Leanansidhe
Date Posted: 25 Nov 2011 at 10:29pm
quote:
Originally posted by Bodybykids
OMG....give it a rest. This is a forum about "slugging" not the "Life Story of people who slug". Leanansidhe information is inaccurate to say the least. Please stop speculating about why these young people are slugging. So what, they get up early.....
I have absolutely no idea what dog you have in this fight, or why you feel the need to consistently be abrasive and accusatory on your posts. YOU posted that this is a struggling, displaced family... I not only speculated nothing in that regard, but cut you a lot of slack in going under that presumption in subsequent posts. NO ONE else has confirmed what I'm saying? What part? That there are kids slugging? Didn't you yourself confirm that, several times? That they're underage? If there are five, and going by your own words two are over 18, what does that make the others? Or the biggest stickler for you, that I've seen the youngest in line alone? Again, I invite you- or anyone else with doubts- to stop by one morning and see for yourself. Ask the folks who are in line every day...most of whom are older are likely don't spend a lot of time tooling around on message boards.
Again I point out that I've called both the police and SS, risking my professional license if they find my report was made maliciously or grossly inaccurately. I presented the information to them as I did here- in good faith. What do you have to back up your version, other than attempted misdirection?
And while I should know better than to rise to such bait, I'll toss out there anyway: how familiar are you with studies about children and sleep? I would be more than happy to link a few. "So what they get up early" is an extremely unhealthy attitude for a parent to have...unless you genuinely think that going out of county to a public school is worth losing an hour or two of sleep. (shrug)
|
Posted By: Bodybykids
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 7:56am
|
Leanansidhe - you really need to get a life (preferably one that involves your business).
|
Posted By: Leanansidhe
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 12:39pm
quote:
Originally posted by Bodybykids
Leanansidhe - you really need to get a life (preferably one that involves your business).
You do realize that you essentially made it my business by describing the family as "struggling" and "displaced"? Or do you still not understand the concept of a mandated reporter? I am going to assume the latter, since you seem genuinely focused on not having a reasonable, adult, back-and-forth discussion. Please go look up the definition before telling me I need to get a life, because your ignorance on the subject makes it exceptionally difficult to explain just about anything to you.
Perhaps, if this subject distresses you so- to the extent that you are unable to actually address any of the salient legal and ethical concerns being raised- you should revisit your decision to rejoin the thread after insisting you were done.
|
Posted By: Bodybykids
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 1:55pm
|
The only issues are the ones that you are creating in your own "mandated" mind. I did look up what a "Mandated Reporter" is and I still stick by my everything I have said. You have issues and need to get a life.
|
Posted By: Leanansidhe
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 3:01pm
quote:
Originally posted by Bodybykids
The only issues are the ones that you are creating in your own "mandated" mind. I did look up what a "Mandated Reporter" is and I still stick by my everything I have said. You have issues and need to get a life.
If that is genuinely how you feel, then I am extraordinarily greatful that you are not in a position to evaluate whether or not cases dictate involvement/evaluation by outside organizations. You are seriously expressing the opinion that mandated reporters mind their own business/get a life. Unbelievable. How far the pendulum has swung in your case to 'who gives a crap what happens to other people' from the typical societal concern about the members of one's community. I am going to assume you are exceptionally young and insulated, else you would have a significantly better grasp of why that attitude sets us on a course of misery.
Until you can provide cites that indicate there are no legal or ethical violations here- I've outlined several, not a one of which you have acknowledged or disproven, and most of which have been based on the information you yourself (perhaps unwittingly) provided- then I shall stick by my own perception of you as willfully ignorant, incapable of reasonable discourse, and in desperate need of gaining some perspective on how to approach other people in a rational way. Honestly, if you hadn't consistently come across as shrill and petulant, I would actually have given your opinion weight. Sadly, you have chosen otherwise.
And now I shall take my own advice and simply ignore you, as you clearly have nothing to add to the discussion. To the other folks who have been addressing the issue and each other calmly and coherently, I appreciate your input.
|
Posted By: AngloAustrian
Date Posted: 28 Nov 2011 at 4:35pm
As far as I know (having kids of my own and having tried to research this in the recent past when deciding when to leave my kids alone), Fairfax County has GUIDELINES (not the law) about when children can be left alone, in day time hours, nighttime hours, etc.
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dfs/childrenyouth/supervision_eng.htm
When I was trying to figure out the law for Stafford County for my own kids, I found there were NO actual LAWS about when to leave children alone, and was told to follow Fairfax County guidelines . In these guidelines, you will see that parents have to make their own minds up. For all we know, the children in question may be following all the requirements for safety. I certainly wouldnt let my 10-year old slug at 5:00 a.m., but I am pretty sure she would be capable of doing it as long as she had a phone in her possession and strict instructions as to what to do in case of an emergency, and I showed her how to do it. We all make executive decisions when we get into a strangers car. I make an executive decision when allowing my kid to wait on the street for a bus. Are you going to report me for that? She has instructions as to what to do in case of a deviant approaching her or an emergency.
So, based on these GUIDELINES, and the fact that the kids havent been run over or similar, it would appear to me that these kids are probably capable of doing what they need to do to get to school, thus the parents appear to be making the right decisions for THEIR children. As far as what a ten-year-old looks like, who knows. One mans 10-year-old is another mans 14-year old. My 14-year old looks 18, and my 10-year-old looks 12. So, we dont know for sure how old these kids are, but what they are doing does not appear to be against the law.
I do find, as a European who has wandered around the streets of London alone at age 12 without a cell phone (a long, long time ago), and as a child who played out all day in the fields until dusk (around the time of the Moors Murderers , no less (look it up)), that Americans can be slight worry warts when it comes to kids safety. I am surprised by the number of parents who do not let their child play outside. Why? Because of the one in a million chance (and its a pretty small chance) that they might get abducted. The statistics are in favor of these kids who are slugging being fine for the duration, mostly because the majority of people are kind and will help them and not hinder them, and the kids probably have some rules that they have to follow that their parents set.
Whether these kids are breaking the law by attending a school outside of their home district, thats another question and, frankly, none of my business or anyone elses unless you happen to be paying Fairfax county taxes. It's certainly not abuse or neglect. I dont know whether being a mandated reporter means that you have to report them going to the wrong school. I dont know anything about that subject. But, unless the kids are behaving in an unsafe manner (running across the road without looking, for example), then it is my unofficial opinion that they should be left alone.
Lastly, I looked up the VA definition of a mandated reporter as it pertains to children.
http://www.dss.virginia.gov/files/division/dfs/cps/intro_page/mandated_reporters/resources_guidance/booklet.pdf
it basically says that if you suspect a child of neglect or abuse you need to report it. Sounds quite fair, except there is nothing in what you have said that gives an indication that these children are being abused or neglected. Given extra responsibility to get to school, yes, but they are not crying, bruised, hungry and stealing food, fighting, or anything that we can really see based on your description that would indicate that they are abused or neglected. So I dont believe that your definition of a mandated reporter in this case is valid and I would let it go now. You have done your best, and that is all that matters.
Hopefully, this helps the discussion. I have tried to be informative and respectful.
|
Posted By: marchf
Date Posted: 09 Dec 2011 at 12:24pm
quote:
Originally posted by Leanansidhe
quote:
Originally posted by Pele
On top of the child endangerment, isn't allowing your children to attend school outside of their district fraud of some type.
Yes, it is, if the primary physical custodian has them more than 51% of the time. A lot of divorced/separated parents think it's ok to go out of district if one parent has a 1-bedroom apartment in town and joint legal custody, but it's not. And considering the kids are walking up 234 at 0530, chances are slim they have a 50/50 physical custody split with someone who lives in Fairfax County.
Glad I'm not the only one thinking WTF.
From this info, it looks like the slug line has custoday of them more than 50% of the time if ewe add in the skewl tyme.
No one has to let any rider into the car, so that wud include juvies. You should probably be 16 in order to slug or be with a parent.
|
|