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USA Today article on hybrids...

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Forum Name: Hybrids
Forum Description: This area is devoted to the discussion of hybrid vehicles and their impact to the HOV.
URL: http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=800
Printed Date: 29 Mar 2024 at 7:02am
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Topic: USA Today article on hybrids...
Posted By: tlschau
Subject: USA Today article on hybrids...
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2004 at 9:38am
An interesting article today on hybrids (sorry for the long message)...

Hybrid car owners wonder: Where's the mileage?

By David Kiley, USA TODAY

Some owners of gas-electric hybrid vehicles complain that they aren't getting the sky-high mileage promised on the window sticker.
To blame are a mix of factors, from unrealistic expectations to poor driving to bad weather.

In November, Andrew Bartell, a San Anselmo, Calif., information technology project manager, bought a 2004 Honda Civic hybrid with an Environmental Protection Agency fuel economy rating of 47 mpg in city driving, 48 on the highway. But Bartell says he actually is getting between 34 and 36 mpg.

He says Honda told him the EPA rating is based on a test of "ideal" driving conditions. "The stated mileage is a complete lie. ... I do not know of a single road in the U.S. that would qualify as ideal," Bartell says.

Honda spokesman Andy Boyd says Bartell isn't the only Civic hybrid buyer complaining. In fact, Boyd says he gets between 39 mpg and 41 mpg in his Civic hybrid.

"The EPA test is an ideal for any vehicle, but it especially favors hybrids and probably sets up too high an expectation," Boyd says.

The EPA test is about 40 years old, and automakers say it is out of date with today's driving habits.

The city-driving test simulates an 11-mile, stop-and-go trip with an average speed of 20 miles an hour and a maximum speed of 56 mph. The test has 23 stops and includes time for the vehicle to idle at a standstill.

The highway test simulates a 10-mile trip and averages 48 mph with a maximum of 60 mph. Testers subtract 10% in the city test and 22% in the highway test to account for real-world driving.

Toyota has been racking up complaints from owners beefing about not hitting the 51 mph highway/60 mpg city mileage advertised for its Prius hybrid. Low- to mid-40s is closer to reality.

Prius uses the electric battery more than the gasoline engine in city driving. That's why, "The best place to maximize the gas mileage of the Prius is in stop-and-go city driving and California commuting where cars rock back and forth between 25 mph and 45 mph," Toyota spokesman John Hanson says.

Drivers who lead-foot the accelerator or brake hurt mileage in any vehicle but are apt to regularly undershoot the optimal fuel economy of hybrids by as much as 10 to 15 miles per gallon.

Hybrids draw some power for the electric battery from braking. But if a driver punches the gas pedal between lights and weaves in and out of traffic, necessitating hard braking, energy that would go to the battery is wasted on the brakes. That means more gas is needed to recharge the battery.

"Traditional driving tips for better fuel economy help maximize hybrid fuel economy even more," says Tom Watson, head of hybrid and electric-vehicle powertrains for Ford, which plans to sell a hybrid Escape sport-utility vehicle this summer. "That means mild acceleration and mild braking."

Beyond drivers' control, extreme weather can play havoc with hybrid gas mileage.

Batteries work less efficiently in temperatures below 32 degrees, and if a driver takes a lot of short trips during a cold week, mileage will suffer.

In hot weather, running the air conditioning in a car costs 10% to 20% of fuel economy.

Exacerbating the complaints: Hybrids show running gas mileage results on the dashboard, so drivers are constantly reminded of fuel efficiency.

"Prius owners who don't know each other pull up beside one another, roll down our windows and shout out what mileage we are getting," says Prius owner John Fragnant of Apple Valley, Minn., who has a Web site for Prius buyers. "That happens all the time."



Replies:
Posted By: bowflexguy
Date Posted: 04 Feb 2004 at 5:12pm
I have a new prius and get 49 to 50 mpg. The stated mpg in the ads is 50 - 60 with 55mpg being the average. Cold weather is a factor, driving 70 mph often is a factor and it is still a new car is another factor.

Of course the sticker is unrealistic but we see something in writing and think that's the way it is.

Another subject is all this carb counting. I three months Atkins crave will go away and new low carb tv ads will go away. I'm hoping that McD's invests a big mac with 3,543 total carbs or do they have it already.

Remember if you ain't passing get over!


Posted By: bowflexguy
Date Posted: 05 Feb 2004 at 6:14pm
most cars get better mileage after 50,000 miles so that is a factor.


Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2004 at 11:30am
My wife gets well over 40 miles per in her Honda Civic Hybrid. Course, she drives different than I do.

Kindest Regards,

mroyal


Posted By: Mrs.KLB
Date Posted: 10 Feb 2004 at 4:48pm
That's an interesting article, but my question is when are these things getting off the HOV? the HOV is congested with them and if you have ever road behind one they stink (PHEWW)! smells like rotten eggs. Also does anyone know how fast hybrids go? to drive behind one is a nightmare. Well it's 5:00 time to go ride behind those hybrids.

Mrs. B


Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2004 at 4:42pm
quote:
Originally posted by Mrs.KLB
[br]That's an interesting article, but my question is when are these things getting off the HOV? the HOV is congested with them and if you have ever road behind one they stink (PHEWW)! smells like rotten eggs. Also does anyone know how fast hybrids go? to drive behind one is a nightmare. Well it's 5:00 time to go ride behind those hybrids.

Mrs. B



With all due respect, I think you are smelling something else. There are no odors as you describe around my wife's hybrid.
Pehaps you are talking about the early models.

The hybrids will achieve the same roads speeds as any other small vehicle. How fast to you want to go?

That reminds me of an occasion back when I used to drive ambulances. We had a very serious case in the back and we were on open straight roads in the middle of the night.
After we had gotten the patient in proper hands, the CT asked me "How fast were you going?" I said, "I don't know, the speedometer only goes up to 85."


Kindest Regards,

mroyal


Posted By: bowflexguy
Date Posted: 11 Feb 2004 at 7:59pm
With warmer weather my hybrid is now getting 51 mpg highway. Rotten eggs smell, must be a depends moment [:(] OPEC cutting oil production, when are we going to learn hybrids are now our friends [:D]


Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2004 at 7:56am
I remembered later on what was lingering around in the back side of my head. The rotten egg smell is usually a catalytic converter gone bad.

Kindest Regards,

mroyal


Posted By: Mrs.KLB
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2004 at 1:31pm
quote:
Originally posted by mroyal
[br]
quote:
Originally posted by Mrs.KLB
[br]That's an interesting article, but my question is when are these things getting off the HOV? the HOV is congested with them and if you have ever road behind one they stink (PHEWW)! smells like rotten eggs. Also does anyone know how fast hybrids go? to drive behind one is a nightmare. Well it's 5:00 time to go ride behind those hybrids.

Mrs. B



With all due respect, I think you are smelling something else. There are no odors as you describe around my wife's hybrid.
Pehaps you are talking about the early models.

The hybrids will achieve the same roads speeds as any other small vehicle. How fast to you want to go?

That reminds me of an occasion back when I used to drive ambulances. We had a very serious case in the back and we were on open straight roads in the middle of the night.
After we had gotten the patient in proper hands, the CT asked me "How fast were you going?" I said, "I don't know, the speedometer only goes up to 85."


Kindest Regards,

mroyal



Mrs. B


Posted By: Mrs.KLB
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2004 at 1:44pm
Nice ambulance story[;)] but I have a question for you,even with your hybrid does your wife and yourself still pick up slugs?















quote:
Originally posted by mroyal
[br]
quote:
Originally posted by Mrs.KLB
[br]That's an interesting article, but my question is when are these things getting off the HOV? the HOV is congested with them and if you have ever road behind one they stink (PHEWW)! smells like rotten eggs. Also does anyone know how fast hybrids go? to drive behind one is a nightmare. Well it's 5:00 time to go ride behind those hybrids.

Mrs. B



With all due respect, I think you are smelling something else. There are no odors as you describe around my wife's hybrid.
Pehaps you are talking about the early models.

The hybrids will achieve the same roads speeds as any other small vehicle. How fast to you want to go?

That reminds me of an occasion back when I used to drive ambulances. We had a very serious case in the back and we were on open straight roads in the middle of the night.
After we had gotten the patient in proper hands, the CT asked me "How fast were you going?" I said, "I don't know, the speedometer only goes up to 85."


Kindest Regards,

mroyal



Mrs. B


Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2004 at 4:34pm
quote:
Originally posted by Mrs.KLB
[br]Nice ambulance story[;)] but I have a question for you,even with your hybrid does your wife and yourself still pick up slugs?
Mrs. B



No, I'm the slugger in the family. I slug in and ride the bus home. Occasionally, our work days line up and I ride with her. When that happens (I still ride the bus home so I park at the lot), I will look at the line and grab a slug if the conditions warrant it. That's pretty rare though.

There is a long discussion about this somewhere below, but the bottom line is she doesn't pick up slugs because she doesn't have to. But even if they kick the hybrids out of HOV, she would probably just go back to the regular lanes unless I was onboard. She just doesn't feel comfortable having "strangers" in the car and I would never try to push her to change.

For me, slugging is a matter of convenience (both to rider and driver,) not a social statement (or religion.)

Gee, I hope we don't go around the loop again.





Kindest Regards,

mroyal


Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 12 Feb 2004 at 4:38pm
BTW, Mrs. B,
I noticed you accidently posted a reply without your question. In case you didn't notice, you have the capability to edit and/or delete your own replies. Just look at the icons at the top of your messages.



Kindest Regards,

mroyal


Posted By: vabigblue
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2004 at 8:21am
quote:
Originally posted by mroyal
[br]
quote:
Originally posted by Mrs.KLB
[br]Nice ambulance story[;)] but I have a question for you,even with your hybrid does your wife and yourself still pick up slugs?
Mrs. B



No, I'm the slugger in the family. I slug in and ride the bus home. Occasionally, our work days line up and I ride with her. When that happens (I still ride the bus home so I park at the lot), I will look at the line and grab a slug if the conditions warrant it. That's pretty rare though.

There is a long discussion about this somewhere below, but the bottom line is she doesn't pick up slugs because she doesn't have to. But even if they kick the hybrids out of HOV, she would probably just go back to the regular lanes unless I was onboard. She just doesn't feel comfortable having "strangers" in the car and I would never try to push her to change.

For me, slugging is a matter of convenience (both to rider and driver,) not a social statement (or religion.)

Gee, I hope we don't go around the loop again.





Kindest Regards,

mroyal






THEN SHUT UP!


Posted By: pb1974
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2004 at 9:09am
Yikes. Why so harsh?


quote:
Originally posted by vabigblue

THEN SHUT UP!



Posted By: vabigblue
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2004 at 9:24am
quote:
Originally posted by pb1974
[br]Yikes. Why so harsh?


quote:
Originally posted by vabigblue

THEN SHUT UP!





Sorry, but there are several threads on this site that refer to Hybrids. If this responder is "hoping we don't go through this again", then they should not keep responding to every posting which he feels is negative. I don't know if you've had a chance to review those threads, but if you have, then you probably know what I mean. Sorry for the "harshness" in my post!


Posted By: mirangus
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2004 at 9:41am
Whoa...easy there, vabigblue...you've made too many good posts to get ugly now.

mroyal-vabigblue does kinda make a point, however boorishly stated. The easiest way to cut off any circuit is to simply turn off the switch. Nothing personal, but you have this knack for keeping these tiresome hybrid conversations alive, despite your expressed desire not to.

You slug. You don't actually drive the hybrid. I hate to point out that Mrs. KLB's post was a short, concise yes-or-no question. Not an attack on the lifestyles of you and your wife as you seemed to take it. Mrs. KLB: "Do you and your wife pick up slugs?" The answer? "No, we don't." And that's it!! You keep perpetuating the vicious cycle of these motions to defend the hybrids and their drivers by becoming defensive even when the situation doesn't call for it. If your wife wants to defend what she does, let her get on here and defend herself. The fact that she doesn't post here says two things to me. 1)That she is a lot more secure in her decision to commute the way she wants than you are; and 2)she doesn't care enough about the topic to waste her time touting the virtues of driving a hybrid. BTW-since you're wife drives the hybrid and you don't, shouldn't that mean you lack the qualifications to be so bold on the topic?

Personally, I don't care about the subject of hybrids. It doesn't matter either way to me. Knowing that this is an open forum and anyone can say whatever they want, I still feel comfortable stating this opinion: Dude, we know how you feel on this topic. We know because your opinion is every-freakin'-where! I'm sure even Mrs. KLB, coming in at 11 posts, knows how you feel. It's the repetition, not the sentiment, that is tiresome and annoying.

So please, for the continuity of this helpful message board, let it go already!! Seriously, I see your name in front of a post and I make an inward groan, fearing that I get to look at the broken record (or scratched CD in these times) again. Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised, but for the most part, it's all the same. Besides, your case would be much better made if you moved aside and let someone else with your views step up to the plate. No one is questioning your character, so take a breath and relax a minute.

I mean nothing personal to you, mroyal, as you make some pretty useful posts sometimes. And if I'm the only one who feels this way, then I apologize for the waste of space. Maybe it's just me. I'm a "milk and move it" type of person; say what ya gotta say and get off it.

With that said, here it is: you're a good "post-er," but sometimes in an irritating way.

Nonetheless, I hope you and your wife have a great Valentine's Day! [:D]


Posted By: vabigblue
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2004 at 11:01am
Well said Mirganus. I do apologize for creating a possible "hostile" environment here. I don't care one way or the other about Hybrids either, mainly because I can't do anything about the issue, but to invite responses in the same sentence as "not wanting to go around that loop again" is a bit extreme. Thanks


Posted By: mroyal
Date Posted: 13 Feb 2004 at 1:10pm
I almost never answer a question with yes or no (unless it is a poll)
As a new person to our forum, I thought Mrs. B would be interested in knowing the answer to why as well. I did not create the thread. But I do admit that I have little tolerance for inaccurate and uninformed statements being expressed as a fact.

However, Mirganus
I appreciate your point and will keep it in mind.



Kindest Regards,

mroyal


Posted By: Mrs.KLB
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2004 at 3:44pm
Oh golly gee thanks[^]









quote:
Originally posted by mroyal
[br]BTW, Mrs. B,
I noticed you accidently posted a reply without your question. In case you didn't notice, you have the capability to edit and/or delete your own replies. Just look at the icons at the top of your messages.



Kindest Regards,

mroyal



Mrs. B



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