Update on HOT Lanes
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Category: Archived Slugging Topics
Forum Name: HOT Lanes Discussion
Forum Description: Post messages regarding High Occupancy Toll (HOT) lanes here.
URL: http://www.slug-lines.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=828
Printed Date: 26 Apr 2024 at 6:11am
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Topic: Update on HOT Lanes
Posted By: Bob
Subject: Update on HOT Lanes
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2004 at 2:36pm
I thought I would create a new thread on HOT lanes since I do have some information that I think would be of interest.
There are two bills in Richmond that I know of at this time. One of them is designed to set up enforcement and fines, etc for future HOT lanes (HB151). The other one which has passed a committee vote is to establish funding mechanisms for new statewide road construction (HB117). It includes funding mechanisms using tolls from HOT lanes.
I corresponded with Delegate Lingamfelter about what has been going on. I had thoroughly searched the VDOT website and could not find anything new on the HOT proposal for 95.
In a nutshell, the Beltway HOT proposal is moving along, as far as I can tell. The 95 proposal is still just an unsolicited proposal. I discussed my strong concerns with this proposal, in that it would be a nightmare for current HOV users. Mr. Lingamfelter was very nice and said that our concerns do need to be considered. Right know, as you may know, the legislators are involved in an intense budget battle.
One other note. I have sent some emails to transit agencies, including Metro to see where they stand. To me it is obvious that they should be against it for 95.
Bob
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Replies:
Posted By: jojobean
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2004 at 8:45am
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Thanks for doing the leg work and getting the info. I agree that HOT lanes would result in more gridlock.
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Posted By: tdar20
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2004 at 10:46am
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I dont think we can say just yet that it will result in more grid lock. I would like to see more information on this before I condemn it to failure. We definitely need extensions to the HOV lanes past Fredericksburg and it looks like there is no movement there by the VDOT. Something has to be done to fix the issue where the HOV lanes merge near Quantico! Gets worse with each passing week and is almost unbearable during the summer!
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Posted By: LJD
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2004 at 1:56pm
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I'm still unsure about HOT. We need additional capacity, but I don't think the Flour (?) proposal addresses everything. First, what is the "optimum" speed to allow single entry into HOT/V? Is 55mph ok? What about 35? Having toll booths at each entry could be a good thing if every car is monitored for HOV3 or toll. If it's simply an EZ Pass system, enforcement would be a nightmare.
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Posted By: Max_28756
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2004 at 2:20pm
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Commuters in this area can afford to pay a toll and will if it means getting to work quicker. Here's the problem; instead of 3 regular and 2 HOV lanes, we will now have 5 regular (gridlock) lanes. It will look like the HOV at 3pm. Slugging as we know it will end.
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Posted By: wdossel
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2004 at 2:51pm
quote:
Originally posted by LJD
[br]I'm still unsure about HOT. We need additional capacity, but I don't think the Flour (?) proposal addresses everything. First, what is the "optimum" speed to allow single entry into HOT/V? Is 55mph ok? What about 35? Having toll booths at each entry could be a good thing if every car is monitored for HOV3 or toll. If it's simply an EZ Pass system, enforcement would be a nightmare.
You will still have gridlock/backup in the transition from the 3 lane HOV/HOT to the two lane HOV inside the beltway. My understanding is that it is cost prohibitive to expand the I395 HOV to 3 lanes using the safety standards employed on the I-95 HOV. One study from 1999 that examined going to HOV2 outside the beltway indicated that avg speeds would drop to around 25-20 mph from the Rte 1/Occ. area up to the beltway (Level of Service of E to F) during the height of the morning commute by 2010. Granted, that was with the existent 2-lane system and the HOT proposes 3-lanes, but I still think the net effect (more SOV cars clogging 3 lanes) under the HOT-scheme would be the same...
- Will
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Posted By: Halscomputer
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2004 at 8:36am
I-95 Hot Lanes Unsolicited PPTA Proposals
http://www.virginiadot.org/business/ppta-I-95HotLanes.asp
Capital Beltway High-Occupancy Toll (HOT) Lanes
http://www.virginiadot.org/business/ppta-defaultHOTLANESCapitalBeltway.asp
Hal
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2004 at 1:12pm
I just spent a half hour on this proposal and it is mind-boggling.
Here is the story with just one aspect - the enforcment of HOV. When this thing is operational, ALL users will have to have a smart tag. This includes carpools, slugpools. You go through the entrance point and it reads your smart tag and license plate. If you carpool or pick up slugs, you would have to be registered as a "car pool." Then, they need to enforce the HOV part. So what they mention is that they are going to make the HOV users line up in a special restricted lane, so that the cops can look inside your car. This is while all the Lexus's are whizzing past you. (That's the way I interpret it). They also say that they eventually want to implement and automated HOV enforcement with cameras, but that they realize that privacy issues are involved, in that there would be someone zooming in on your car with a telephoto lens.
Separately, there is not one mention of the fact that the 14th street bridge is the choke point. Restriping for 3 lanes wont change that.
Also, I read the other day that in California, the HOT started out as free to carpools and then later they starting charging one-half toll.
Bob
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Posted By: dixeedog
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2004 at 6:13pm
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Lets just face it. :( If HOT lanes get approved then it will be the end of Slugging as we know it. But really why wouldn't a state senator in Richmond approve the HOT idea. Free roads and the only people there are going to offend is the 50,000 or so people that use the HOV lanes. (that number is on the Slug-Lines.com web site) HELLO..... we are the minority. Some state senator from Roanoke isn't going to care about slugging in Northern VA when it comes down to state budgets and the condition of the state's road system. So enjoy it now. In ten years this whole "slug" thing will be but a memory. Plus the sky is falling and Soylent Green is Peolpe.
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2004 at 8:40am
New Beltway HOT lanes article on Channel 7 site:
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0404/136733.html
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2004 at 10:04am
I wanted to reference a very good article in the Potomac News today but it is not available on their website. It mentioned a very interesting aspect of the Beltway proposal that I wasn't aware of. Initially, the proposal would have included concrete barriers between the HOT lane and regular lanes. But due to opposition about the fact that 200 homes would have to be bulldozed, they changed the plan so to take away the barriers. I'll bet that would work really well. What a bunch of MORONS.
Bob
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Posted By: Juli
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2004 at 1:16pm
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Let me try to put in my 2 cents without looking stupid... Back in Seattle where I am from they have built a second layer on top of the existing freeway. Why can't they do that on top of the HOV and have that strictly be for HOT lanes and leave the lower lanes for HOV? Then everyone is happy??[:I]
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Posted By: USA
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2004 at 5:57pm
quote:
Originally posted by Juli
[br]Let me try to put in my 2 cents without looking stupid... Back in Seattle where I am from they have built a second layer on top of the existing freeway. Why can't they do that on top of the HOV and have that strictly be for HOT lanes and leave the lower lanes for HOV? Then everyone is happy??[:I]
Main reason is cost--immense cost, not just to build this, but also to deal with the existing interchanges. This idea would involve rebuilding all of those. Plus the difficulty of constructing it without totally messing up the traffic during construction, and then they also have to find a place at either end for the on/off ramps, and places throughout these lanes for this as well. The cost would be prohibitive.
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2004 at 12:48pm
Posted By: Gold89
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2004 at 11:40am
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HOT lanes are just going to allow the rich drivers to add to over crowded roads AND add to the pollution we're trying to cut.
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Posted By: emancilla
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2004 at 11:47am
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I don't think the mayority of us are in the position to pay a toll in a daily basis to get to work quicker. Some will. Will we? The same people who chose to be sitting in the regular lanes are the ones who can afford to pay a toll. They already can affor to burn gas by sitting hours in the regular lanes. As someone said before, instead of two HVO and 3 regular lanes, we will have 5 regular lanes.
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Posted By: Juli
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2004 at 5:01pm
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I think that's a fantasic idea! It sure would make the ones that don't want to pay mad that they lost a lane. Maybe that's the incentive they need to triple up.[8D]
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Posted By: Bob
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2004 at 11:49am
Beltway Hot Lane meeting is scheduled for April 29 (see link)
The panel reviewing the Beltway Hot Lanes will make its recommendation in May. What is not stated is whether the I-95/395 proposal will be discussed. I will try to find out.
http://www.virginiadot.org/business/ppta-default.asp
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Posted By: Gold89
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2004 at 1:33pm
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After reading through the first proposal (Clark/SCC/KPRI), I'm a little concerned. Their proposal effectively makes the lanes HOV-3 or toll 24-hours per day, every day. No more free rides during off-peak periods.
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Posted By: Juli
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2004 at 12:32pm
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That concerns me greatly!!! Not to mention the traffic Mon-Fri but imagine the weekends.[V]
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Posted By: Max_28756
Date Posted: 11 May 2004 at 2:41pm
On this issue of HOT lanes, we need to do more than talk about making a change. Here is a link to a site that list all Virginia government representatives. They need to hear our concerns and know that we are voters who will make a change if this idea of HOT lanes takes away the HOV and gives it to those who can afford to pay.
http://legis.state.va.us/
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