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NoSUV View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2006 at 10:55am
quote:
Originally posted by SpongeBob
[br]

Comparing DC traffic with other metro areas is invalid. Every city has its own set of issues. The commuting patterns in DC are unique to our city, and cannot be compared to, say, Denver, or Chicago. To pick only one thing, there are far fewer river crossings than for comparably sized cities. Also, we have essentially three contentious "state" governments involved in traffic and transit planning.



Sponge - 4th bite.

Sounds like you are saying "I'm unique, just like everyone else." Where would you like to draw your comparison? Chicago? 2000 population 2,896K compared to DC of 572K. Has a big lake restricting commuting from east. I55 from the west, I90/94 from the south, and I90 and I94 from the North. Has an interior beltway. Nowhere near the congestion.

DC has metro; Chicago has El. DC has carpool lanes and slug system; Chicago doesn't. DC has worse congestion. Hmmm.
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darkprime View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkprime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2006 at 11:24am
I hate to say it, but NoSUV does have a valid point on his "3rd Bite".

What is the reason to force everyone to buy a hybrid over a non-hybrid that gets better gas mileage (for example, a non-hybrid civic over a ford-escape hybrid)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N_or_S_bound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2006 at 12:15pm
quote:
Originally posted by NoSUV
[br]With the biggest threat to our way of life being global warming,



HARDLY! Rather myopic view of our way of life, America and the grander mosaic of life in the USA.

NoSb

SOV because you can, HOV because you care!
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MDC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MDC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2006 at 2:23pm
darkprime,
Hybrids have significantly more horsepower than their non-hybrid counterparts. Look at the Lexus hybrids for example.

NoSUV is a tool. Hybrids aren't the answer to whatever problem there is and NoSUV knows it.
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darkprime View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkprime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2006 at 2:36pm
I know in my example there was a wide HP gap. But then again, typically those vehicles with more HP get worse gas mileage. In the case of those lexus hybrids, don't they only get marginally better gas mileage than their non-hybrid counterpart? If NoSUV was truely concerned about going a hybrid route so the vehicles emmit less pollution than other vehicles, he should stipulate ONLY certain hybrids that are acceptable to buy. Maybe he has that in mind, but he always says "buy a hybrid" and never which hybrid(s).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MDC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2006 at 3:47pm
The Lexus hybrids have significantly more HP than their non-hybrid versions. The V6 hybrid GS450h generages 339 HP and significantly outperforms the V8 powered GS430. The RX400h is heaps faster than the non-hybrid RX330, which has the same V6 engine.

It's great technology and all, but it's not the "environmental solution" that NoSUV is "promoting". Even if everyone switched to hybrids, they'd still be burning gasoline...

For more "wow", check out the 5.0L V8 hybrid sedan Lexus has shown. The LS 600h L.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lexus_LS
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luddite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2006 at 9:02pm
Chicago has an interior beltway? Huh? What do the locals call it? DC has worse congestion? No true. Not only does Chicago have worse congestion, they have more congestion with three times the road miles. I was a salesman in Chicago for 21 years until recently and logged many hundreds of thousands of miles. I know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darkprime Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2006 at 8:33am
National rankings of traffic congestion usually puts LA at #1, San Fran at #2, and DC at #3.

MDC, about your examples with the Lexus, you appear to be right, but care share the cost of a Hybrid Lexus over say 2007 Camry?

UPDATE: Starting price on a Lexus Hybrid is $54,000
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NoSUV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2006 at 9:30am
quote:
Originally posted by Luddite
[br]Chicago has an interior beltway? Huh? What do the locals call it? DC has worse congestion? No true. Not only does Chicago have worse congestion, they have more congestion with three times the road miles. I was a salesman in Chicago for 21 years until recently and logged many hundreds of thousands of miles. I know.


Luddite - the Loop
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sluDgE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2006 at 12:26pm
Here's how wikipedia defines "The Loop" in Chicago:

BEGIN QUOTE: The Loop is what locals call the historical center of downtown Chicago. It is the second largest downtown business district in the United States, after Midtown Manhattan. Bounded on the west and north by the Chicago River, on the east by Lake Michigan, and on the south by Roosevelt Road, the lack of space shaped an architectural style dominated by high-rises. Notable buildings include the Home Insurance Building, considered the first skyscraper, and the Sears Tower, the tallest in the United States. Some of the historic buildings in this district were instrumental in the development of high-rises. Chicago's rational street numbering system originates in the Loop at the intersection of State Street and Madison Street, reflecting the central role the district has played in the entire Chicagoland region.
The term "The Loop" has different meanings to different persons. The Loop is an official community area of Chicago. The official boundaries as designated by the City of Chicago are The Chicago River to the north and west, Roosevelt Road to the south, and Lake Michigan to the east. As the downtown area and its many high-rises expanded out past the official community area over the years, "The Loop" has been used more generally to denote the entire downtown as opposed to just the officially designated community area.
The term even more specifically applies to the section of the community area surrounded by the circuit formed by Chicago's 'L' trains. The circuit runs along Lake Street on the north, Wabash Avenue on the east, Van Buren Street on the south, and Wells Street on the west. The name, however, predates the elevated loop, coming from a streetcar loop in 1882. Currently, most residents probably consider it to be the area bounded by the Chicago River on the north and west sides, Congress Parkway to the South, and Columbus Drive to the east.
This area has a wealth of shopping opportunities, although it competes with the more upscale Magnificent Mile area to the north, and with suburban shopping malls. It includes Chicago's famous Marshall Field's department store, now Macy's, a traditional favorite for viewing Christmas window displays, and the original Carson Pirie Scott store, closing soon. :END QUOTE

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