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darkprime
New Slug Joined: 05 Jul 2006 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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The only hate I have seen regarding hybrids is their exemption on the HOV. The only other thing tends to be the question as to them being cheaper or more expensive in the long run.
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NoSUV
New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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right...cost above altruism. sounds like a response from a slug.
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n/a
New Slug Joined: 17 Dec 2001 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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quote: I never said that I hate hybrids, nor do I hate those who drive hybrids. Hybrids are just another product, just another type of fossil fuel burning vehicle. I do think it is misleading for hybrid manufacturers to jump on the eco-bandwagon as a way to market their car. I think hybrid buyers have been mislead. And I think its wrong for hybrid owners to get special treatment on public roads (I paid for them too); for nothing more than submitting to marketing hype that says they can buy their way into affirmative action in ecological issues. If you think you deserve special treatment for opening your wallet, then fine; you got it! But that doesn't make you an ecological activist. Now tell me you fill your seats each way on your commute, tell me that you use alternative and renewable fuel (ethanol, biodiesel, solar, hydro, etc.), tell me that you drive less and bike more, tell me that you recycle, tell me that you turn your thermostat down and your lights off. Then I'll believe your ecological intent. A $25,000. hybrid car doesn't cut it! |
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scottt
Senior Slug Joined: 12 May 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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Amen Raymond, Amen.
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Luddite
New Slug Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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I'm pasting this here from an online exchange I had last night with a TX hybrid driver.
There are about 360,000 hybrids on U.S. roads today. They've been available for around 6 years. I'm not a mathematician, but that's not a success story. Let's start by comparing the gasoline costs of driving a $21,000 Civic Hybrid with a $16,500 Civic LX. The Civic Hybrid with a manual transmission gets something like 46 miles per gallon in the city and 51 mpg on the highway (we know these numbers are bogus anyway). The Civic LX gets 32 mpg in the city and 38 mpg on the highway (see note above). Let's say gas is $3.00 per gallon and you drive 15,000 miles every year. Will you be able to rack up $4,500 in fuel cost savings with your Civic Hybrid? Not unless you plan on keeping the car forever. After five years, you'd save $2k at the pump. After 10 years, you'd save $4k. To drive 15,000 miles in a year with a Civic Hybrid, you'll need to pump in about 326 gallons of gas. Pay $3.00 a gallon and your yearly fuel costs will run about $1000. To drive 15,000 miles in a year with a Civic LX, you'll need to pump in more than 469 gallons of gas. Pay $3.00 for each gallon and your yearly fuel costs will run about $ 1,400 just $400 more than the Civic Hybrid. So let's say gas prices shoot up to $5 gallon. Yearly fuel expenses with a Civic LX will run about $2345 compared with $1630 for a Civic Hybrid. That's a savings of $715 a year. After five years of high fuel prices you'd save $3575. But you're still a grand away from recouping the extra $4,500 you paid for your car. So, I exaggerated and said you had to drive 100k at $5 gallon. I was trying to be dramatic. Still doesn't change the fact that hybrids are a joke on the rich. Even the government is taking back the tax break they had to offer for folks to buy them. Even with the tax break, the status symbolism, and the free ride on HOV, hybrids only account for a small fraction of cars sold in this country. Hybrids are an automotive footnote. Big 3,800 lb. diesels are here to stay. Respectfully submitted. |
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LDOMAJ
New Slug Joined: 17 May 2004 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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quote: I had an Escape with the V6 and got 17-18MPG... getting 29 with the 4WD Escape Hybrid which is the closest mileage I have every gotten (to the window stick). It gets about a mile less a gallon when it is really cold out. It has enough power for merging/passing even with 3 or 4 riders and gear in the back (and two us are big ole boys). I have put about 22,000 miles on it and like it so far though I wish it ran on the battery a bit more. Paid $27,000 for it, tax benefit of about $1,900... not too much more than the loaded V6 I had before |
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NoSUV
New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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Luddite - are the emissions the same? Remember, the exemption was NOT based on fuel economy, but on SULEV.
You are right, however, in that most people, and particularily slugs, are looking for how to save money over the world. |
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scottt
Senior Slug Joined: 12 May 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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NoSUV,
So, just how much money do I have to spend on "the world" to make you happy? |
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NoSUV
New Slug Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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quote: Enough to dump your current non-environmentally friendly vehicle and get a SULEV. You could make others happy by wasting less at home, composting, solar panels, and more. |
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scottt
Senior Slug Joined: 12 May 2004 Location: VA Status: Offline Points: 106 |
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quote: My car is already an ULEV. Perhaps when my lease is up I'll add the S, because your happiness is what I care most about in this world. --------- Still waiting for NoSUV to put up or shut up. |
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