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Bob
Moderator
766 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Oct 2004 : 11:17:41
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| I would like to request any information that slugs may have on potential allies in our fight against HOT, (at least in its current form). I am not a federal worker and am not real familiar with this, but I was thinking about the EPA, for example which controls air quality regs. I think that by adding thousands of cars, HOT will have a big negative impact on air quality. I have also thought about the various "green" groups such as Sierra Club which should be pro HOV. At one time I wrote a letter to AAA, which often takes political positions, but they never wrote back, so they may be pro HOT. On another occasion I wrote to Omniride, but unfortunately got a pro HOT response. There must be some allies we havent identified. |
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sharonji27
Junior Member
33 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2004 : 16:43:49
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| Since Tuesday is election day that could be a way to send a message. Are any of the people who voted to approve HOT lanes up for re-election?? |
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SpongeBob
Advanced Member
659 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2004 : 17:16:18
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No one's voted on anything yet. The project is just a proposal. But it's likely to be approved by all the counties along the corridor and by VDOT and that may be all it needs.
Voting is a good idea, but it tends to work from the backside (California's Davis notwithstanding.) I mean that a vote against a candidate because of that candidate's voting record, is a vote that comes too late: it arrives AFTER they've already inflicted their damage.
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RoadRunner
Advanced Member
388 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 09:21:48
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Anybody sit in the HOV lanes this morning (and Friday) while cars in the regular I-395 lanes were whizzing by? Does this serve as any indication to folks that this is what HOT lanes will be like?
On Friday, they opened the HOV lanes to all due to some accidents near the Pentagon. Wonder what thoughts were running in the minds of those single riders who opted to use the open to all HOV lanes instead? My guess is, "What the freak am I doing in this lane when traffic in the regular lanes is speeding by? I should have stayed over there!!!" |
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Bob
Moderator
766 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 09:31:31
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| And HOV traffic opened up right after the minor paving work on 395. That must be part of it. But I wonder if a lot of singles are diving into the HOV lanes when the regular lane backups get bad. I thought this may be the case but looked around and did not see a lot of cheaters. |
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adjguy
Senior Member Member
161 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2004 : 23:13:53
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What are some other options of paying for another hov lane, and extending it to Fredburg? We voted against the transportation tax a few years back, and Virginia is broke.
Any solutions?
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spacefan
Starting Member
3 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2004 : 09:25:38
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If we don't start a letter-writing campaign RIGHT NOW, HOT lanes are going to be a fact of life. A large group of vocal people can do wonders--I was witness to this several years ago when my community beat back an attempt to locate a cell tower immediately adjacent to our community.
The whole point of HOT lanes is nothing more than increasing revenue. Well, then we need to push other avenues of revenue. Why not awaken the notion of the sales tax increase, BUT PROMOTE IT DIFFERENTLY. Any time someone hears "tax increase" they think property tax. Sales tax increases are nothing more than an increase in consumption tax like gas tax increases. If promoted properly, a sales tax increase referendum could pass if the alternative is more air pollution, more roads in disrepair, more gridlock, etc. I think you see where I'm going with this.
Of course Omniride is pro HOT lane because they know that HOT lanes will drastically impact slugging because of the drop in drivers picking up slugs, so they think their ridership will be up. The fact of the matter is that Omniride cannot possibly absorb the number of riders that might head their way if slugging is seriously impacted. Can Omniride absorb even half or one quarter of the 20,000 or so people who slug into DC and elsewhere everyday? Of course not! They couldn't possibly run enough buses to support the increased number of riders (thereby adding to the gridlock and air pollution) and the complaints would be endless about the packed buses. If the subject were broached to Omniride in these terms, they might be more supportive of our viewpoint.
The number of hybrids on the road is seriously impacting traffic in the HOV lanes NOW. Why hybrids are allowed in the HOV is beyond me because I thought the point was carpooling, not rewarding single drivers for supporting the automotive industry and circumventing the notion of mass transit. Besides, hybrids are not fuel efficient at high speeds--they burn gas at speeds exceeding 30-35 MPH--the electric only works at low speeds. The only benefit to owning a hybrid is driving in the HOV without passengers and less frequent visits to the gas station. How does that benefit MASS TRANSIT?
We need to organize NOW because the HOT lane train has left the station and we're watching it depart. |
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goober
Senior Member Member
166 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2004 : 17:00:56
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adjguy, It can't be that expensive to re-mark the existing HOV lanes to create another lane which is what is being proposed. Conceptually, if it's not too costly, can't the counties come up with some funding to pay VDOT for just this kind of change? I'll help promote this idea.
Extending the HOV will definitely be costly, and this is where the "considerate" contractors will pay for the work. But, can't that extension wait or is it clogged with traffic badly down to Fredricksburg? I get off at Horner so I have no idea how bad it is further south. IMHO, in general, if going further south means accomodating more new housing development, those developers should cough up higher proffers to pay for the extension.
Goober |
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SpongeBob
Advanced Member
659 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2004 : 14:03:25
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The extension to Fredericksburg is the big carrot Fluor is using to ram this thing through. They're dying for more pavement down in Stafford and F'burg. Or so we've heard.
But Fluor's proposal says they will get around to extending the lanes "when we're bloody well ready to and not a minute before we have installed the toll booths between 14th St. and Dumfries." (OK, so I paraphrase -- we sponges do that sometimes.) Want to see where they say that?
Take a look at page 46 of the Fluor proposal. Also note that the lanes won't be extended to 610 until the summer of 2008.
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goober
Senior Member Member
166 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2004 : 16:45:22
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Sponge, Where is page 46 of the Fluor proposal that you refer to, is it in "Tab 2 - Project Characteristics"? I'm looking at the post on the VDOT web site which is referenced in the slug-lines site.
Thanks.
Goober |
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SpongeBob
Advanced Member
659 Posts |
Posted - 19 Nov 2004 : 14:54:34
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Oh, my bad. I should have said Tab 2, page 46. It's a timeline under Project Characteristics.
(Pass me a Tums!) |
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goober
Senior Member Member
166 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2004 : 15:52:50
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Bob, I've been sincerely thinking about your initial request about seeking allies to battle HOT. I can’t think of a group or person that might be willing to see the light and have enough clout to help. The contractors have a profit motive, so they have an extremely strong desire to see this thru. Spacefan’s idea of a letter writing campaign makes sense, but who do you write to that can make a difference? The look of “yup, this proposal will make me look good to my constituents” and the non-critical stance of the supervisors’ questioning leads me to believe that they’ve already made up their minds and won’t help.
My opinions: I think the EPA is too bureaucratic to help. AAA would probably be in favor of HOT because they are looking out for the motorist foremost and slugs aren’t drivers, so helping out the regular (single) driver will look favorably on AAA. I like your thoughts on the Sierra Club. They might be interested, however, they are really against sprawl which relies on highways. But I’ll write to them anyway to see where they stand on this issue and maybe see the light.
I’m not sure why these HOT threads aren’t as active as the others. We both know that if HOT is implemented, slugging as we know it, goes away. Could it be that others know something that we don’t, as in “are you making something out of nothing”, or that “HOT will eventually become a moot point and die?”
Goober |
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Bob
Moderator
766 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2004 : 19:33:55
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Goober,
Thanks for airing your thoughts on this. I am just dumbfounded that no major group has come out against HOT. I think they just have not really thought things through yet to understand the difference between the Beltway proposal and the 95 proposal in terms of ending HOV on 95. Also that our region will be a "guinea pig" for this thing. If anyone has contact with these groups, please send me a note on this and I will write them.
Bob |
Edited by - Bob on 29 Nov 2004 08:02:13 |
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shirons
Junior Member
44 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2004 : 15:42:12
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Is there a consolidated effort to fight HOT lanes in Northern Virginia? Besides the Hot Lane section and message board of this website is there an organized group of commuters making their voices heard in an structured way with local and federal government officials.
If we (those against Hot Lanes) simply rely on our colleagues here on the message board to author letters and attend meetings to fight the fast moving proposals their going to be slammed on our roads before you can blink an eye.
Remember a majority of the folks giving the green light to Hot lane proposals rarely commute to DC or even sit in the congested traffic. Most of our locally elected officials are either retired professionally or work in the local jurisdiction they represent. In Prince William County only 3 of the 8 members of the Board of Supervisors regularly commute outside of PWC for work (and at least two of them typically do the commute at non-peak hours) and only one member of the state delegation from PWC to the General Assembly works north of PWC.
The way they see it is “I ran on making traffic better for my constituents and hey these Hot Lane proposals sound like a pretty good deal.” If they don’t hear a vociferous opposition they’ll say “yes” and have the campaign material spouting “Providing Transportation Solutions” as fast as they can.
What needs to happen is we, commuters, need to organize in numbers, and aggressively recruit as many folks as we can. Do write the letters to the electeds, start letters-to-the-editor campaigns and make sure there are a number of people who are willing to attend and speak at meetings in all of the jurisdictions that Hot Lane proposals will have to go through. All this combined with finding partners, whether it be environmental groups or other to speak out against the proposals.
Opposition can’t be limited to one jurisdiction's Board of Supervisors’ chamber (i.e. PWC), it will have to be made in all local jurisdictions' chambers as well as Council of Governments, state legislative delegations and federal legislative delegations.
I’d be willing to do what I can to help organize and work against. As a former candidate for a local Board of Supervisors I have a number of contacts and relationships that could be useful. |
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goober
Senior Member Member
166 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2004 : 17:09:54
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shirons (Scott Hirons I gather from your profile), you apparently know what is required to get this going. Obviously, the people on this forum don't quite get the point that this slugging system will go away if nothing is done now.
Thanks for your initiative. If you can help, it will undoubtedly help your future campaigns... but I hope you will do this for the right reason.
Goober |
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shirons
Junior Member
44 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2004 : 13:30:44
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I only want to help because I don't see Hot Lanes as a very good solution to an already bad transportation system. I agree with the other posters who say it's going to end slugging and add time to everyone's commute.
I have, since last year's election, moved out of the jurisdiction where I ran for office. I've moved to Stafford County and would be starting from ground zero with regards to any political aspirations. If I ever do give it a shot again it'll be quite some time.
I just want to offer my help to this effort with the skills and knowledge I did learn in politics.
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Looking for Allies to Battle HOT
