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Bob
Moderator
766 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jun 2003 : 08:26:23
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There is an article in the Post today about HOT lanes. The tone of this article as well as a number of radio and TV spots in the last couple of days has just been to rave about the potential of HOT lanes to reduce traffic.
I will make a couple of comments. First, no one ever mentions the negative impact on air pollution of HOT lanes. Second, think about how it would work. It would only work on isolated lanes where they could control things at the entry point. Does that mean they would create isolated lanes on 270 (which is one of the corredors they are talking about?) More likely, they are thinking about messing up I-95.
Bob  |
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jerryclapham
Junior Member
32 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jun 2003 : 13:17:02
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I have thought about them on 95. It will not work. The HOV lanes at this time a running effectively and effiecntly. Now lets double or triple the number of cars in the HOV lanes that are carrying less people because there would be altneratives to pick up slugs or car pool. In addition there will be bottleneckl on the HOV because of increased volume. (e.g. exit ramp to the Pentagon). This will defeat the whole purpose of the HOV lanes on 95. Once again some politican has gotten a bug up their butt about the HOV lane. Now they want to spend tax dollars to do a study on HOT lanes. VADOT did a study (cost$1.4 million) several years ago on the effects of lowering the HOV from 3 to 2 on 95. They were surprised when carpoolers and slugs came out in droves to tell them what a diaster it would be. VADOT will get the same conculting firms and hire people who never travel the 95 on a regular basis in rush hour. I think that everyone should start writing their elected officals and tell them to stop this maddness.
Jerry
Jerry |
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Admin
Forum Admin
993 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2003 : 12:28:13
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We (as slugs) must voice our concern with this HOT concept. If anyone has information on who to contact please post it on the web or email me directly!
Here is the article. You can find it at:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14863-2003Jun4.html
Toll Lanes' Concept Catching On
Planners, Officials Discuss Prices at Regional Meeting
By Katherine Shaver
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 5, 2003; Page B01
Traffic planners and public officials said yesterday that they sense increasing political support for giving motorists the option of buying their way out of congestion by paying tolls to use free-flowing carpool lanes.
With money for new roads, buses and trains scarce and traffic growing steadily worse, the officials said, they have few other ways to raise money to ease the Washington region's legendary backups. The toll income could be used to fund new transit and road projects, while making more efficient use of existing road space, supporters said.
Yesterday, more than 200 state and local transportation planners, politicians, academics and engineers gathered for the region's first major conference to discuss ways of pricing lanes. Just a few years ago, organizers said, such a discussion would have drawn fewer than 10 people.
"I think people are recognizing that the [traffic] problem continues to get worse, and there's a willingness to try new things," said Ronald Kirby, transportation director for the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments, which co-sponsored the conference with the Federal Highway Administration. "People are becoming more and more aware that there's a serious revenue problem . . . We have no other solutions on the horizon."
Pierce Homer, Virginia's deputy secretary of transportation, called the palpable level of enthusiasm in the Grand Hyatt meeting room "very significant."
"This is a serious question being asked in a lot of regions around the country: Are there market-based solutions to congestion?" Homer said.
In high-occupancy toll (HOT) lanes, lone motorists may pay a toll to use the faster-moving carpool lanes. The tolls are deducted from prepaid accounts via electronic transponders on vehicles, similar to the "Smart Tag" transponders that allow motorists to breeze through toll booths.
Toll prices change throughout the day, with the highest prices during the morning and afternoon rush. The lanes remain free for carpoolers. The toll is always high enough to ensure that the lanes don't bog down. HOT lanes don't necessarily reduce traffic congestion, supporters say, but they help transportation departments manage it better by filling unused space in carpool lanes and giving motorists an incentive to drive outside the peak periods.
Before this year, the effort to create HOT lanes in the Washington region appeared to have stalled. The only local study came to an abrupt, controversial end in 2001 . Parris N. Glendening (D), who was then the governor of Maryland, canceled a HOT lane study for Route 50 through Prince George's County, saying such lanes would be unfair to lower-income drivers.
Maryland recently revived its study of HOT lanes, this time on Interstate 270 through Montgomery County. Virginia has asked for federal money to analyze HOT lanes on Northern Virginia highways.
A private company also has proposed using toll lanes to finance widening the Capital Beltway in Northern Virginia.
Adding to the momentum, supporters say, is the Bush administration's recent proposal to permit states to impose tolls on federal roads and interstate highways. The administration doesn't actively endorse the idea of HOT lanes but thinks they are "worth discussing" to better manage congestion and reduce air pollution, said Emil Frankel, assistant U.S. secretary for transportation policy.
"I think everyone acknowledges we have financial issues, and we need to think about all our options," Frankel said.
Many transportation planners have supported the idea of "value pricing" on highways for years, but hot lanes have been a tough political sell. Critics have dubbed them "Lexus Lanes," arguing that they favor the wealthy and are a double tax on roads that motorists already pay for through the gas tax.
Mid-Atlantic AAA spokesman Lon Anderson, the most vocal HOT lane critic, said he would support them only on new or wider highways and only if the toll revenue went primarily to expand road capacity.
"Shouldn't the goal be to move everyone at a more reasonable speed during rush hour than just those people who can pay?" Anderson said.
Conference organizers said they hoped the meeting would begin the public education that had helped overcome political opposition in some cities where HOT lanes now are in use.
Officials involved in HOT lane projects in Houston and in San Diego and Orange County in California told the conference that surveys showed similar income levels among drivers in the toll lanes and the regular lanes. Most drivers used them only when they were in a hurry, officials said.
Maryland Del. Carol S. Petzold (D-Montgomery) said HOT lanes could work on I-270 and on the intercounty connector proposed for Montgomery and Prince George's counties. The toll revenue could fund construction of the connector road, a transit link between Bethesda and New Carrollton and a rail line across the new Woodrow Wilson Bridge.
"The political reluctance is that you're charging money, which people think of as a tax," Petzold said.
"We need to change that attitude from HOT lanes being a tax increase to being a traffic management tool."
© 2003 The Washington Post Company
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MDC
Moderator
631 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2003 : 05:00:13
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| I just don't understand how they'll effectively enforce it. |
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Admin
Forum Admin
993 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2003 : 06:30:18
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Does anyone have detailed information on the HOT lanes? Exactly what they are proposing, how it will operate, etc. I'm trying to locate the details of what they are proposing but have been unsuccessful (other than the newspaper articles).
If you have anything, I'd appreciate it.
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wdossel
Senior Member Member
127 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2003 : 09:26:43
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Well, at the risk of getting flamed, there already is a form of HOT at work -- the use of hybrids in the HOV lane. In effect, people are paying $18K+ for using the HOV w/o more than one occupant...
HOT's are a poor method to raise revenue ostensibly for local projects -- frankly, does anyone on this board *really* expect that No. Va tolls will be plowed back into No. Va projects? As a former resident of Hampton Roads, I can assure you that there isn't a toll that once in place, the good folks in Richmond won't move heaven and earth to try and keep in place (the Beach "expressway" being one stellar example) and route the monies elsewhere in the state.
This is a real threat to the continued use of the HOVs as originally intended, and we as a group need to get the ear of our legislators -- *now* before the pro-toll advocates get a foothold or we're going to end up behind the  . I think it would be particularly useful if we obtained a summary of local and state officials' position re. HOT for use in future elections...
- Will |
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Admin
Forum Admin
993 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2003 : 12:40:38
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First of all I agree with you completely. Second, I'm hoping to add another section to the website for "Slugging Activists" (for lack of a better term). I'd like to list all the officials involved in not only HOT but other issues that impact slugging.
I think getting involved will be the focus of my next newsletter! |
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n/a
deleted
86 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jun 2003 : 16:25:12
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Here are some addresses for those who feel like contacting their representative. (if you're in the Woodbridge area)
Delegate Michele B. McQuigg
Capitol Address:
General Assembly Building, Room 418
Post Office Box 406
Richmond, VA 23218
Phone: 804-698-1051
Phone: 1-800-889-0229
Fax: 804-698-0229
District Address - Woodbridge
2241-R Tackett's Mill Drive
Woodbridge, VA 22192
Phone: 703-491-9870
Senator James Kenneth 'Jay' O'Brien Jr.
Capitol Address
Senate of Virginia
Post Office Box 396
Richmond, VA 23218
Phone: 804-698-7539
Phone: 1-800-889-0229
TollFree: 800-889-0229 session only
Fax: 804-698-7651
District Address - Clifton
Post Office Box 7202
Fairfax Station, VA 22039
Phone: 703-750-0936
Fax: 703-750-1183
Secretary of the Commonwealth: Anita A. Rimler (VA)
Capitol Address
830 East Main Street, 14th Floor
Richmond, VA 23219
Phone: 804-786-2441
Fax: 804-371-0017
Representative Thomas M. "Tom" Davis
Washington DC Address
2348 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, DC 20515-4611
Phone: 202-225-1492
Fax: 202-225-3071
District Address - Woodbridge
13546 Minnieville Road
Woodbridge, VA 22192
Phone: 703-590-4599
Fax: 703-590-4740
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Admin
Forum Admin
993 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2003 : 07:04:40
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| To prevent confusion of having two different threads discussing the same topic, the thread "HOV to HOT" has been locked from future postings. Please post all future comments here. Thanks. |
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Erin
Starting Member
2 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2003 : 15:29:33
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| I'm in complete agreement! The idea of HOT lanes terrifies me... I love my commute the way it is. I live in Dumfries and it takes me about 50 minutes total to get door-to-door (I work at 14th&I). Why mess with a good thing? Some letters are definitely in order! |
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elama
New Member
12 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2003 : 12:31:22
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Thank you and../ you go guy!!!
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Admin[/i]
[br]First of all I agree with you completely. Second, I'm hoping to add another section to the website for "Slugging Activists" (for lack of a better term). I'd like to list all the officials involved in not only HOT but other issues that impact slugging.
I think getting involved will be the focus of my next newsletter!
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jerryclapham
Junior Member
32 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2003 : 12:48:53
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I got an idea. Lets keep the HOV lanes as is (no toll). Except get rid of the hybreds. And We start charging non-hov cars a toll on the regular lanes of 95/395. This will increase traffic flow, reduce smog and encourge carpools and mass transit. Then will all those millions we could build more roads or mass transit.
Jerry |
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mroyal
Senior Member Member
204 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2003 : 15:09:30
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by jerryclapham[/i]
[br]I got an idea. Lets keep the HOV lanes as is (no toll). Except get rid of the hybreds. And We start charging non-hov cars a toll on the regular lanes of 95/395. This will increase traffic flow, reduce smog and encourge carpools and mass transit. Then will all those millions we could build more roads or mass transit.
Jerry
So, you propose to make 95/395 a toll road except for HOV, who not only get an open lane of traffic, but also at no cost.
Sorry, but that makes no sense to me. First, we have already paid (or are still paying) for these roads with taxes. Secoundly, there are a number of folks who drive solo out of necessity. Lastly, HOV lanes are a great benefit already. No need to provide further incentive to those who have already found ways of getting this benefit. WRT the hybrids, I disagree with you, but that is a different thread, isn't it.
But, they are not really interested in easing traffic flow with HOT, are they. It's all about the money. Pity, because I agree with those who say that the cost to create and maintain a HOT infrastructure would overide any net gain. It would also make HOV enforcement virtually impossible.
Let's just spend the money on (yet) another study.
The only change that I would suggest to ease the overall traffic is to change the HOV on 95 to HOV2, yet leave the HOV on 395 to HOV3. This would help two major conjestion areas on the regular lanes and encourage rideshare on 495.
Kindest Regards,
mroyal |
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jerryclapham
Junior Member
32 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2003 : 08:55:09
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I agree with you that my suggestion to put a toll on 95/395 does not make sense. It was made to give an extreme suggestion to cut down on traffic on the 95/395 corridor. Yes we have paid for the roads (including the HOV lanes) with our tax dollars. But if Richmond really wants to reduce traffic and cut smog this will be the way to do it. I know it would never work. However neither will charging a toll on the HOV lanes for LOV. But yet Richmond will spend our tax dollars on a study to try to disprove. Maybe they will use the same firms that gave the low-ball estimates on the Mixing bowl projects.
Jerry |
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spacefan
Starting Member
3 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2003 : 11:19:38
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I believe the primary reason that HOT lanes are being considered is the increase in the state sales tax that WE voters decided against that would have, among other things, have paid for road repair, road improvements, the over budget Springfield interchange, etc.
Getting the Virginia legislature to reconsider the HOT lane idea is going to require a LARGE write-in campaign and slug presence at every meeting that VDOT holds on this topic.
Bottom line: This is a great way to kill slugging and put money in the pockets of the bus companies because I know lots of slugs who slug in the am and take the bus home in the pm. Eliminate the morning slug trip and you force slugs to take the bus.
P.S. Did anyone else see that insulting article in the Metro section of the Post about how drivers could possibly avoid "picking up strangers" in order to use the HOV lanes (it was a pro-HOT lane article).
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Bob
Moderator
766 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2003 : 11:58:29
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Yes, I picked up on the insult to slugs. It was a letter written by the director of Govt Relations for the Greater Washington Board of Trade.
Below is the letter:
HOT Idea In Traffic Management
Sunday, June 15, 2003; Page B08
Here I am tied up in traffic -- again -- but in the restricted high occupancy vehicle (HOV) lane next to me, cars carrying two or three people whiz by. I look at my watch. I stare at the brake lights. I move another 30 feet.
Sound familiar?
How would you like to be one of the fortunate few who cruise comfortably and legally in the restricted lanes, getting to work on time and not having to pick up strangers as riding companions for the privilege? If you would be willing to pay for this option, high occupancy toll (HOT) lanes may be for you.
At a recent conference sponsored by the Metropolitan Washington Council of Governments, elected officials and civic and business leaders heard from transportation experts on the potential benefits of HOT lanes. The concept is simple: Allow solo drivers to use HOV lanes otherwise reserved for cars carrying two or three people.
Based on experience from HOT lanes in California, tolls would vary from $1 to about $4 in order to keep the lanes flowing. High-occupancy cars and buses would continue to travel at no cost.
There are HOV lanes on Northern Virginia's I-95, I-66 and Dulles Toll Road and Montgomery County's I-270 and U.S. 50. Trouble is, no regional system exists that would allow unimpeded travel on HOT lanes.
A recent analysis sponsored by the Reason Institute proposes just such a system. Existing HOV links in the region now total 170 lane-miles -- 134 in Northern Virginia and 36 in Maryland. These lanes would need to be supplemented by additional lanes on those roads as well as by HOT lanes on the Beltway and on I-95 as far north as Columbia. This would create a free-flowing regional roadway system for those willing to pay.
HOT lanes would defuse the acrimony among road builders, NIMBYs and environmentalists because they generally would use existing HOV lanes or the footprint of already-built infrastructure to add new lanes. The argument of those who mutter about favoring the well-off with a "Lexus lane" would be moot because bus rapid transit would provide a transit option. Further, at least half the cost of regional HOT lane improvements has been projected to be covered by toll-backed bonds.
Are HOT lanes the magic solution we have all been waiting for?
No, but they would provide a promising and creative transportation option.
Would we still need to raise new transportation revenue, better use what we already have, build new infrastructure and encourage transit-oriented development to fight congestion?
Yes, but these measures would have a vital new ally.
-- Bob Grow
is director of government relations
for the Greater Washington Board of Trade.
BobGrow@bot.org
© 2003 The Washington Post Company
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